Y’all missing the point here, the elephant in the room is that Kamala is a woman, and America is a very misogynistic place. Trump won both times against a woman, and loose against a white old dude. Both ladies were better than Biden at everything, they platforms were better. This wasn’t even related to Palestine, or climate change, you americans are sexist morons, demographically speaking, and choose the rampant fascist male clown instead of the qualified female, you are afraid of women in power, and that will cost you your democracy. Good luck evicting the oversized cheeto in four years.
Thanks for the blocks, I guess.
That’s not at all what happened.
The donkey showed people the positions and the people sat at home.
The same assholes as usual voted Republican and that’s how Trump won.
People were lazy, disinterested, and not motivated to vote for the incumbent party.
The most consequential issue for voters this past election was the economy. People are feeling inflation, whether that’s through food prices, rent prices, or all of the above.
Harris didn’t campaign to that. Instead, she catered to families with children - a diminishing subsect of society - and small businesses. Yes she advocated for a first time home subsidy, but no young person believes they’ll truly have enough money to own a home in their lifetime.
Harris ignored the working class. And so they ignored her. Plain and simple. A political party has to fix its constituents’ problems, or at least lie about it. She did neither.
Stop making this about voters.
Defending the economy when we all know our paychecks are shrinking relative to rising costs wasn’t a wise move by the Democrats. The Republicans didn’t offer any sane and sensible solutions, scapegoating immigrants is absurd, but they acknowledged that the economy isn’t doing well for a lot of people and that actually resonated with many.
Yes, you’re right, it’s 100% Harris’ fault.
She didn’t take the steps needed to make people care enough about stopping a fascist dictatorship.
And it’s the voters’ fault that they needed to be made to care about stopping a fascist dictatorship? They should have already not wanted their friends to die.
They are both 100% to blame. Because blame isn’t a limited resource.
Drag made the following meme in response to the comments in this post: https://lemmy.nz/post/16146432
No, what you stated is why red voted red. This race wasn’t lost because red voted red. This race was lost because blue didn’t vote. The numbers are very clear it’s a little more red than there was last time but there was a lot less blue
“vote for a ceasefire” is the ceasefire in the room with us now? Because I’m not surprised people DIDNT vote for someone who was the fucking president but refused to pressure to end a war because it could be used as leverage in an election campaign.
Do you think Kamala Harris was the president, or do you think people are upset that voters didn’t vote for Joe Biden?
I’m pretty sure she vowed to not be silent on Gaza, and then didn’t really bring it up until 2? days before the election? Even if she said somewhere about ceasefire she clearly didn’t mean it.
The president and I are working around the clock every day to get that ceasefire deal done
- Kamala Harris
now is the time to get a ceasefire deal and get the hostage deal done.
- Kamala Harris
We’re not going to stop in terms of putting that pressure on Israel and in the region including Arab leaders
- Kamala Harris
it is time for this war to end and end in a way where Israel is secure, all the hostages are released, the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza ends, and the Palestinian people can exercise their right to freedom, dignity and self-determination.
- Kamala Harris
My bad. I guess she mentioned it more than twice.
But in my defense I don’t think I need to remember all the empty words. You’re working with the president around the clock for a ceasefire and the outcome is an 8 billion military aid package for Israel and further escalations by Isreal? She can say all the thoughts and prayers she wants but it doesn’t change that the administration she’s a part of made no progress on a ceasefire.
If you think she would’ve done a ceasefire after being elected you’re huffing pure copium. If a ceasefire was on the card the ceasefire would’ve happened already . You don’t run on “I know our party is currently in office and can pressure for a ceasefire and we can’t or won’t do anything, however if you elect me then next year we’ll do something.”
Just look at the rally from where the first 2 quotes are from. They’re actually part of the same quote and I’ll add the quote in full.
I have been clear: now is the time to get a cease-fire deal and get the hostage deal done. Now is the time, and the president and I are working around the clock every day to get that cease-fire deal done and bring the hostages home. So, I respect your voices, but we are here to now talk about this race in 2024.
Translation. We hear you but we don’t want to address it.
This is why abandoning the “grocery store” strategy for “trump said naughty words” was a huge mistake.
I find all of this Monday morning quarterbacking pretty silly. Trump was literally fellating the mic and rambling incoherently a few days before the vote. “Strategy,” hahah. Nothing Kamala’s campaign coulda done was gonna get those 15 million people that chose not to vote, if simply listening to Trump didn’t.
I do think that when harris said stuff like “stop price gouging” fascist media made the mistake of airing her and combatting the point - which is weak sauce on their part. More of that would probably have worked. Less ads about trump unfitness more about reducing grocery costs.
Grocery costs will continue to go up, because climate change has disrupted food production and distribution (among other things.) We could make prices fall artificially, but the actual cost is higher. And anything we do to change that must be paid in more externalities. Americans don’t want to have the hard conversations. We want pleasant half- truths and lies. That’s what we elected.
Nah. The comparative price of food will go down if wages rise. And wages are artificially low. Food scarcity is not yet a serious issue in the USA. It’s a purely political issue.
Harris should have lied, then. There’s no punishment for promising the world and failing to deliver.
The issue is it is a two party system. The Dems ran a safe but weak campaign while people are pissed off at the world. Trump was a colossal ass who is likely to collapse the free world clowning it up at every chance.
This was a referendum on the status quo, and they got a solid no in favor of tearing it all down.
Accelerationism is a helluva drug. Hey, at least we’ll get unfettered corpo AI, haha.
That or a locked down internet in the US. Was it not from that document that this came from?
“Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned,” the document says. “Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.”
Drag hopes they do that one first. Number one strategy to start a revolution.
Ah, but it works both ways. One great way to radicalize young men is sexual frustration (see: incels). The right has mastered this FAR better than the left ever thought about it.
Or maybe voting against something that you don’t personally like is not a strong strategy for a nationwide election?
Suggesting that there was “nothing” at all she could have done to inspire voters is a cope. And refusal to listen to the reasons people vote the way they do.
No. Y’all did this exact same mental gymnastics routine in '15. We elected a senile con man instead of a qualified woman because America has a deeply rooted misogyny problem. That’s all. Well, that and because pressures from climate change have made people afraid and easier to con.
Right… It’s everyone else that’s the problem that the same tired tactics aren’t working over and over again.
It’s just those darn voters who need to be taught a lesson on how to vote properly. Those people that are hungry and poor just need to listen to what’s good for them and their disagreement is obviously because they are shitty people who hate women.
Great talk. Can’t wait to see all the outpour of support for that now and the 3rd victory in a row for Democrats. Because nothing need change and it’s everyone else that’s doing mental gymnastics.
If someone requires dispropprtionate convincing to do the obviously right thing, I do hold them responsible for being wilfully ignorant, yes.
Then you are a narcissist who thinks you can ignore others and bully them into agreeing with you cause you think of yourself as the only truth.
Your idea of right is your own. Blame everyone else then, but don’t pretend it’s productive or that you will get what you want from it just because.
Suggesting that there is no strategy change needed after proof it doesn’t work over and over again makes you willingly ignorant as well. And extremely unlikely to ever get a goal you want.It lets you have a scapegoat to not introspect or change. And yours is just as imaginary as the right and you blame millions of people for not being you.
Yup, you’ve got me all figured out after this one exchange. Now that I’m nicely in this box, feel free to store it wherever makes you comfy.
We elected a senile con man instead of a qualified woman [In 2016] because America has a deeply rooted misogyny problem.
I mean she also had a 20+ year smear campaign against her, that probably shaved a few votes I gotta imagine.
More accurately, it’s the potential voters sitting at home not voting that did it. Republican-leaning people got out and voted, as they always do.
So yes, I totally blame the DNC for being so afraid of polularism that they would basically squander 1 billion in donations for an amazingly ineffective get out the vote effort. Why should I donate to the DNC again?
So I completely understand why people would feel this way, given that Trump won, it must stand to reason that people voted for him more, right? Except that isn’t the case. Trump got fewer votes this election than the last one.
Let me also just add here: Fuck Trump, fuck the GOP, fuck all of the fascists that supported and voted for him. I wish that Hell was real so that they could all go there.
But the reason he won isn’t because people voted for him more, it’s because Kamala’s platform didn’t inspire democrat voters to actually go and vote for her.
You could totally say that in the two party system, choosing not to vote is the same as voting for Trump, but I think that’s not true - a large number of people who voted Biden but didn’t vote Kamala are likely to be opposed to Trump and are likely to participate in protests, activist action and organising against fascism.
You may not understand why someone would be motivated to participate in activism, but not motivated to vote - and I completely understand that too. People who are into electoral politics don’t really grasp how others feel about it.
There are a number of reasons why that could be, but I would say that probably chief among them are the fact that she represented a status quo rather than a shift towards socialism, and because she refused to take a firm position against the ongoing genocide in Gaza
Of course, you’re free to believe as you wish, and I’m not trying to change your mind really - I’m just trying to add a bit of nuance and help explain what happened.
Maybe the response I got from my Mom is telling
- she’s a surprisingly liberal boomer
- she understands Trump is unfit to lead anything and would never vote for him
- she was unhappy voting for Harris
When I asked why and fact checked, two of her three reasons were false and third was “misleading”.
So even with someone whose vote was always going to be Democrat, the flood of misinformation and lies prevailed.
For my brother who is conservative, I didn’t get into it since there was no point in starting an argument. However he dismissed a lot of things Trump said as “he’s not serious, he’ll never do that.”
a large number of people who voted Biden but didn’t vote Kamala are likely to be opposed to Trump
That’s an intention, a feeling. It’s not an action.
and are likely to participate in protests, activist action and organising against fascism.
That’s great, but it isn’t voting.
These people chose to do nothing about Trump winning the election, and then take on a fascist dictatorship with banners and guns. That’s a great idea if you want a civil war. That’s a great idea if you think that making people suffer and making them see their friends and family die will radicalise them into revolutionary soldiers.
Is that the plan, or do the people who didn’t vote just not have a plan? Were they acting on their emotions? Did they think that it was Kamala’s job to make them feel motivated to resist fascism, because the prospect of voting against a fascist dictatorship just isn’t a sweet enough deal on its own?
It was a choice between neo-fascist now or neo-fascist later, DragonFucker.
Can you not at least see how people might want to try to find other paths forwards and actually make changes?
I was all for telling folks to vote prior to the election, but I can hugely empathise and understand why they didn’t.
Kids in cages, anti-Trans laws, bombs to Israel and Saudi Arabia have only gone up from Bush to Obama to Trump to Biden. The system is the same, it just gets to mask off a bit when Trump is at the helm.
Drag will reiterate drag’s point that we are now facing the prospect of actually making changes, as you say, against a fascist dictatorship. That’s harder than against a liberal capitalist state. If we’re Sisyphus and America is the boulder, then these people just decided to let the boulder roll downhill and smash into a lube factory. That makes it harder to make changes, not easier.
What is the plan in this decision?
I think that if Kamala had been elected, then we would have had four more years of things getting worse under neoliberalism, before getting a fascist in 2028. america is kind of a fascist country, it’s just now that the american people are experiencing it for themselves rather than just subjecting it on others
Maybe, but it’s hard to believe the cult leader will be active in four more years, and so far no one else has whatever power he has to attract his followers.
Also, I’ll take four more years of the country functioning
Four more years for drag’s friends to live and find a plan to escape the country. Drag thinks that’s a good thing. Do you think it’s a bad thing?
I have the utmost sympathy for you and your friends and I hope you’re all okay, and I want to send you as much of my love and support as I can. I wish you all nothing but the best and I hope the world turns. Stay strong, stay hopeful, and remember who the true enemy is, the ruling class, the billionaires, the media, the politicians who sold our future for $$$.
And the voters who chose this.
I think we might differ on how bad we think the status quo of neoliberal US is, DragonFucker.
It may be harder, certainly more violent.
But maybe a wider range of society will be more motivated to take direct action.
Edit: and yes, my theory does explain Nazi Germany. A weak, capitalist state where Socialists and Communists were gaining ground electorally led to far right non-winners given power because that was more palatable than ceeding more ground to the Left. And after that it left global capitalism in a stronger state than ever.
But maybe a wider range of society will be more motivated to take direct action.
Drag has trans friends who live in the USA. Drag does not think their lives are an acceptable price to pay for this plan of yours.
I don’t think their lives are either, DragonFucker.
But Harris wasn’t going to make them safer or even stop things getting worse. Ask them if they felt safer in 2023 or in 2018.
Your anger is better focused at Trump and Co in particular, and the US government in general than regular random people on the street.
As for me, I wish I had a plan. I’d just assumed Harris was going to win, but here we are.
I know I will probably get downvoted but:
- This is not a comic strip
- Political content on non-politics community
This isn’t a non-politics community. There’s no rule banning politics in the sidebar. If you want this community to get rid of politics, maybe you could engage in a political campaign to get the assent of the users and then bring your policy proposal to the moderators with a political argument in favour of non-politics.
This isn’t a non-politics community. There’s no rule banning politics in the sidebar.
By non-politics I meant that this is not a community dedicated to politics, not that politics are banned or something like that.
If you want this community to get rid of politics, maybe you could engage in a political campaign to get the assent of the users and then bring your policy proposal to the moderators with a political argument in favour of non-politics.
I didn’t say that I want this community to get rid of politics, but that this post doesn’t belong in this community and it is better to be posted somewhere else.
Democrats are now hallucinating Harris supporting a ceasefire in Gaza
Harris Doesn’t Support Arms Embargo on Israel, a Top Adviser Says
At her Michigan Rally two days ago she vowed to do all she can to end the war in Gaza. Granted it was way too little too late. No idea why she waited until a day before the election to say the thing everybody has been wanting her to say since the beginning.
There are many ways to end a war.
How would she stop the genocide? The next one?
Harris actively banished Gaza from her campaign. She did not allow Palestine at the DNC. She promised to keep sending weapons to Israel. Her position was extremely clear.
Vague lip service two days before the election means nothing.
The writing really was on the wall, unfortunately
For most voters, that concession was too little too late. Effectively, her campaign still didn’t support a ceasefire nor cease of arms transfers.
It’s not a war, it’s a genocide. The UN is able to call it a genocide. The Hague is able to call it a genocide. The fact that Harris refused to acknowledge it as a genocide meant that nothing further would actually be done.
Because she saw that she was gonna lose. Or thought it would fly under the radar to not piss off more but somehow convince others that she meant it?
The Democrats seemed to have thought the election a game that could be won with clever tactics and moves the whole time instead of meeting the challenge head on. Truly a shit show of poor party management.
This is garbage and also voting for the party that refused to hold democratic elections for the presidential nominee is a great way to protect democracy!
People forget that nationwide elections are ordinarily determined by infrequent voters to begin with.
It wasn’t high-propensity voters voting for trump, third party, or abstaining, it was ordinary non-political americans who didn’t see a point in voting for a status-quo center-right candidate.
People have been screaming at democrats since at least 2008 that they need more progressive, more radical policies, and they’ve repeatedly avoided addressing those concerns. Trump ran in 2016 as a moderate. He came out on the left of fucking hillary clinton on the war in Iraq and interventionism. She lost to trump because he maneuvered to the left of her, and democrats still have not fucking learned.
Democrats need to let go of their moderate progenitors and re-build their base from the bottom left. They’re leaving millions of voters on the table because they keep hamstringing themselves on a bygone era of popular neoliberalism, and there’s nobody left to blame now but the party itself.
She lost to trump because he maneuvered to the left of her
Nobody voted for Trump because he was “more left than Hillary”. That’s not why anyone voted for him.
i believe what he meant was that “trump won despite being on left of hillary” which goes against the dnc propaganda at that time that sanders was not electable because america will never vote for leftist views. add that hillary was stupid (or corrupt) enough to not give anything to her voter base while trump did. shows how out of touch dnc had become.
Your opinion is valid but, with no offense intended, i wasn’t talking to you
That’s not how this works. It’s a social platform. You talk to all of us.
Or not
I personally know many who wanted the US out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, and trusted Trump over Hillary to do it. I know no-one who openly wanted the same and voted for her. I myself voted third-party the last two elections before this year, and Biden has only escalated our entanglements in middle-eastern conflics.
Jesus, just look at Biden’s rhetoric on Israel and Iran. Its downright bizarely pro-war, pro-genocide(in its failure to remotely acknowlege such is happening), and absolutely tone-deaf to what voters want.
The fact that you yourself have now said what you’ve said on the topic proves the opposite of your claims. You know no conservatives today, and you mock the notion that anyone is against the war more than you point out any reason anyone should have voted for Harris over Trump.
Muslims were a DNC lock-in vote till now, and absolutely no-one failed to warn them that was changing.
They absolutely were compelled by his opposition to international conflict and intervention - which was a huge part of Clinton’s legacy as SoS.
Like seriously did you think we’d vote for a party committing genocide. Why couldn’t your party just stop committing campfire?
Liberals are so staggeringly entitled. We do not owe you a mora justification for your lose or for being against genocide.
And not, not voting for you isn’t a vote for Trump. I don’t know what happens next but the public has loudly proclaimed it will not include those committing genocide. Trump has already said to Netanyahu he needs to end this before he takes office because a even knuckle dragger like Trump can see what a huge political liability supporting the extermination of Palestinians is.
Yes, the lesser evil lost to the greater one again, and they and their diehard supporters insist on learning nothing.
Fence sitters, young people, and the lazy succumbed to right wing and foreign propaganda to depress voter turnout for Biden and this Kamala and it worked like a charm.
Let’s not pretend any of you useful idiots pedalling the same thing aren’t doing them a favor by yelling what they had been pushing for 8 years.
Right back at you like always Viking_Hippie lol.
