Also I want to hear from you, is it ethical and why?
Art project from 2020 - intended to provoke the conversations here for sure. Still involves some animal products in production it looks like.
I don’t think this could be feasibly upscaled to sustain a dystopia.
It’s not like they can check what kinds of cells you put in. No need to made this weird by cultivating human meat.
The kit likely is optimized for human muscle cells and might not perform as well with other human cells or muscle cells from another species or even not at all. The other question is where would you find livable cells from a cow or whatever that you wanted to cultivate. I doubt that your refrigerated steak has viable cells.
I don’t think the requiernments for mammalian muscles cells are that different from each other. It might be optimized for a specific animal, but I’m pretty sure it will still work in general or it would only take very small adjustments to make it work for a different mammal.
The other question is where would you find livable cells from a cow or whatever that you wanted to cultivate
Yeah, you’d need a live or very recently deceased cow. But it should be easy enough to obtain some samples before or during regular slaughter. And once this method is viable and widespread enough there will probably “biopsy cows” that just get pricked for cell samples all day.
But it should be easy enough to obtain some samples before or during regular slaughter.
It’s a DIY kit for layers to play around at home. I don’t know where I would obtain samples before or during regular slaughter for my 49,99€ kit from Amazon tbh
Ask a local farm or butchers shop for example.
But yeah, it’s probalby more of a toy and I doubt that growning your own steak at home will catch on. You need industrial scale meat cultivation if you want to compete with the current convinence and price of meat.
Ok that makes sense. I live very urbanized and unfortunately without books and talks my kid would probably grow up thinking meat grows in plastic packaging, so a local farm or butcher is rather out of reach. I’m probably also approaching this more from a laboratory perspective than necessary.
I also hope lab grown meat catches on, but we need a) a really good cell line to not always have to take fresh cell samples from living animals and b) a sustainable and plant based alternative to FCS. I think scaling it up wouldn’t even be such a huge problem eventually. What I am much more surprised by is that so many people have an ick with lab grown meat. How is this grosser than eating a dead animal or insects?
Also I want to hear from you, is it ethical and why?
I don’t see why not. It hurts nobody, except maybe yourself. Not sure what the nutrition is on this thing.
I mean you have to buy it on your own accord, culture your own cells, and then successfully cook and eat them. As long as you aren’t stealing other people’s cells to eat them without their consent it seems more ethical than the current meat industry.
But it’s still cannibalism, yeah? If someone consented to be eaten before they died or even wished for it, would you be OK with eating them?
If you’re eating yourself I think it’s autophagy
We have to draw some sort of line here though. Will this give you prions? Does this end the person’s life like traditional cannibalism usually does? Theres a lot to unpack in these tiny man steaks. I’d still rather people be growing their own meat at home in a petri dish than having animals locked in cages for eternity.
In the current hypothetical:
-
It’s screened, you can’t legally sell prion meat
-
It’s taken nonlethally as a sample from a consenting human, possibly you
Ethical
-
would you be OK with eating them
are they yummy ?
Haven’t tried it, you’ll have to make your own judgement there!
This is unironically one of my favourite questions to ask new friends. I’ve gotten a variety of answers, but my own response has always been yes, if the person was healthy and had clearly consented.
In my opinion, cannibalism is bad for two main reasons, 1) it can be unsafe if the person was ill, the meat has spoiled, or if it’s done too often (this has been studied in cannibalistic rituals) and 2) it’s unethical if the person doesn’t consent to it.
Eating animal meat is non consensual and there can be diseases in there too - many people have died from it. Just because it’s more socially acceptable, I don’t really see it as an ethically better decision.
I would 100% at least try my own home grown meat cells.
Damn, I love your response, even though I don’t know of I agree! Are you Vegan?
I personally see it as No, because I see us humans as special. Speaking as an atheist, end of day, we are special as humans.
I eat meat, I try to limit it to the ethically harvested. Hunted, family farm grown, it even tastes the best, any concerns aside. But eating a person is WRONG, consent or no.
Why is it wrong though? And why/how are people special? You didn’t provide any reasoning to either.
I’m not vegan or vegetarian anymore because I have a lot of allergies that prevent me from eating plant based anything. But I also try to limit it to locally and ethically harvested when I do eat meat.
I identify as agnostic and definitely don’t believe that any one living being is better or more special than the others (except maybe cats).
It’s interesting that you ask if they are vegan, as if understanding the ethical problems of eating meat would only be valid if you are also strictly vegan.
You evidently understand it is not completely ethically correct to eat animals in all circumstances, as you say you only eat ethically harvested meat. But you also say you believe humans to be special as a reason to eat animals, so why not eat all animals under all circumstances?
The main point though, why would it still be wrong to eat human meat if lab grown and consensual?
So, if it were the original cells, then it would be autocannibalism, since these are cloned cells (from what I gather) it’s technically not the same thing. [Edit: Personally, it’s a bit of a tossup in my mind. I don’t think it’s unethical, but it’s still a weird thing]
Yeah, I’m also unsure how I feel about it, I asked because it’s such a strange thing to think about
stealing other people’s cells to eat them
This will become a sex thing for sure
I made a post about that a while ago: https://feddit.uk/post/14228639
Streets ahead
Well if they combine that with 3D printed cell scaffolds they can eventually make a flesh fleshlight out of their own cells
The time is coming for the most involved “go fuck yourself” ever.
3D printed cell scaffolds combined with this mean you can shape them
Now I wonder if someone has actually tried making a dildo from cultured flesh and skin
There’s a (pretty great) movie where cannibalism is treated as a substitute for sex. It’s called Aamis.
As long as you aren’t stealing other people’s cells to eat them without their consent it seems more ethical than the current meat industry.
Even if you did, while super weird as long as you didn’t get the cells through violence it’s probably still more ethical than the meat industry.
You can probably use some violence and still come out ahead. I don’t know how to do that math though.
And what if you don’t own a Honda?
What if you have cancer and don’t know it, and just accidentally happen to grow a tumour for dinner?
How do you know the cancer won’t make it tastier?
Then you have your starter meat and can start the age old tradition of passing it down from generation to generation so that they can keep making You Steaks forever.
“My great-great grandpa/ma sure is delicious!”
It’s not a toomah!
To me that’s more ethical than killing of billions of animals, and the latter is considered ethical. I wouldn’t do that because that would feel weird, but not unethical.
I wouldn’t do that because that would feel weird,
I mean, it’s basically homemade spam. It’s kinda weird.
To me that’s more ethical than killing of billions of animals, and the latter is considered ethical.
I think most people would actually consider factory farming unethical, they just put the blame on the producers for treating animals like shit. And the producers are locked into a race to the bottom for competitive prices, so they’d blame the customers/market conditions.
Shades of Wendy meat from Rudy Rucker’s “Ware” tetralogy
Don’t you get prions from canibalism
Also if this costs less than supermarket meat I could buy some beef and clone it
Yes and no. You get prions from eating a person that’s also infected with prions. Basically if you eat cloned meat of yourself it should be fine as you either already have prions, or you don’t already have prions. Prions manifest as either CJD if you got it naturally or Kuru if you got it through canibalism.
Is muscle tissue even infectious? (Especially when grown from a few cells) Don’t you need to eat some brain or spinal cord?
Eating brain/spinal cord is not required to contract a prion disease; prions can also be spread through any biological medium where protein material is located, for instance, blood. This is the reason why those who have CJD or other TSEs in their family are unable to donate blood.
This is also how vampires became extinct.
The blood relative thing is kind of silly, it should be mothers only but it also bans you if your father contracted it after you were born.
The reason for that actually makes sense. It’s rarely clear how and when someone contracted a prion disease at time of diagnosis, and often it is unclear which specific prion disease a person has. While it may seem that a father contracted a prion disease after you were born, it could also be that the father has an inheritable prion disease that you too may have inherited.
I think the brain is only where the concentration of prions is highest and therefore the most dangerous part of an infected person to eat, but you can also get it from other body parts. But I’m no expert… haven’t eaten anyone in years actually.
Yes, it can pass through muscle/meat. That’s what was getting people with CJD and possibly this zombie deer stuff.
I’m putting ten in the bathtub and naming it Steve.
The perfect gift for RimWorld players.
Hush, its so imperfect, it only makes meat, not Cowboy Hats made out of Cowboys
Is this considered vegan meat?
What about this post has anything to do with vеgаnism BudgetBandit
Yes is it, as no animal is harmed:
“Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”Can’t speak for this specific kit but in general: A big problem with lab grown meat and cell tissue culture is that to grow cells in vitro you usually need fetal calf serum. That’s a liquid from, well, cow abortions basically, that contains a plethora of different molecules like growth factors and mediators. As far as I know, there is no vegan alternative to this yet. We are talking about a liquid here whose composition is really complex, so it’s a really big task to create a plant based FCS alternative that performs just as well.
Tldr: probably the set contains a liquid made from cows.
As vegan as it gets, I’d wager. You need to take an initial sample to cultivate the meat from, which obviously isn’t vegan, but to my knowledge, the rest doesn’t require any further samples
Likely depends on what’s needed/used as feed
Anyone who thinks this is okay can suck my lab grown dick
If you don’t eat your meat, how can you have any pudding?
Careful. Might create a fetish here.
You don’t wanna eat your own lab grown asshole?
Carnists well do anything to eat meat
Oh come on veggist, I eat you and you eat me, in a consensual lab grown way.
And I am just kidding, not even sure I am on board with this, i think eating lab grown cow meat would be less upsetting.
It’s just frustrating. Despite study after study showing that consumption of meat leads to poor health, people keep doing it. It just reminds me of being an addict. Other people saying this causes less harm to other sentient beings are right I’ll conceded to that but based off everything I know, the consumption of meat isn’t an act of self love. I may just be sensitive because my mother is dying of stomach disease. Beans and rice vegan steps off soap box
Could we genetically engineer a synthetic meat cell line that is healthy enough to eat?
We’re humans, we can do anything we put our minds to. I’m not a geneticist nor nutritionist so there’s no way I could tell you for certain. But the more I think of this question the more Jeff Goldblum’s line from Jurassic Park comes to mind.
“Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should."
Haha but it’s yummy! This would be the easiest way to get rid of agricultural meat production for ethical and environmental reasons.
Of course for many species of cows it will be an extinction event.
Yeah and cocaine is fun to do too. Doesn’t mean it’s healthy.
It wouldn’t end animal agriculture. It would just become the vinyl record collectors version of meat consumption.
It saddens me that you believe the only reason for cows existence is because of humans.
If I may suggest donating some time at your local animal sanctuary to meet a cow. Much like dogs or cats they each have very different personalities. They can be very cuddly if they get to know you. Like most herbivores they just want to have good vibes and enjoy their life.
Sorry that was a bit hyperbole it would never be an all or nothing. You’d always have limited grass fed animal husbandry for milk and cheese. But my thought was that there should be some sort of rewilding effort for cows or Buffaloes or whatever their wild form even is or was in Europe.
And I was thinking in the way of harm reduction which is a tactic for drug. You won’t convince a majority of people to not want meant so the demand will be there. So practically artificial meat is the only way.
Oh look cherry picked studies
If you look hard enough you can find any study to support your claim with enough word crafting
You need to learn what cherry picking is. These are studies funded by governments. Not meat packing corporations.
But I’m sure I can post some PFAS studies you can deny too.
I knew one of you would show up in this post and make it all about you
This post isn’t about you
Your right it’s not. It’s about your poor health.
Oh no, meat grown in a way that doesn’t harm sentient beings! How awful!
Isn’t cannibalism a good way to get prion based diseases? Or is that only if you eat other people
If you’re eating yourself, no. If you have a disease to pass on, you can’t catch the disease, because you already have it.
You mean to say you can’t get STDs if you fuck yourself?
Yeah, same principle.
You can’t eat the brain. AFIK, never tried human.
You can’t eat the brain.
Shouldn’t
Incoming: nonconsensual meat grown from samples illicitly taken against someone’s will.
But how else will we know which neighbor tastes the best?
Imagine the network of Taylor Swift DNA trading.
And you know someone is going to fuck it.
I think these are the plots to at least two Cronenberg family films.
What are the ethics of fucking a steak made from a non-consenting Taylor Swift’s tissue sample?
You aren’t seeing the big picture here…hear me out:
TRUMP STEAKS, but the real deal this time!!!
Unethical??
I’d agree that taking the sample is unethical, but if you’re growing the steak from a sample someone else got or fucking it the ethical lines get really blurry.
Idk, I don’t think they’re that blurry if we compare them to similar “conundrums” in other unethical circumstances.
Like, would you think the same of someone owning child porn? They don’t distribute it, they don’t film the children themselves, they just own the recordings. The law says they’re a criminal, but it seems like a similar ethical conundrum - no? (To be clear, I think eating meat sourced from someone who did not consent is wrong. I hope that says enough about how I feel about CP.)
How about owning the schematics for a ghost gun? You haven’t printed it, you haven’t distributed the schematic - you just own the schematic (and, for the purpose of the example, a 3d printer capable of printing the parts needed).
Seems like the answer is “it’s unethical”. Gonna need a third party to weigh in.
So I think it’s more like if u got a papermache piñata from some one that just so happened to be made of child porn and then u fucked that… Yeah seems unethical to me
The closest thing to this exact situation would be the HeLa immortal cell line and that situation is fuzzy as fuck.
HeLa immortal cell line
TIL, thanks!
nonconsensual meat grown from samples illicitly taken against someone’s will.
Meat is already produced without consent and much more violently then taking samples.
Wasn’t there a short story about this?
