- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
Right now, on Stack Overflow, Luigi Magione’s account has been renamed. Despite having fruitfully contributed to the network he is stripped of his name and his account is now known as “user4616250”.
This appears to violate the creative commons license under which Stack Overflow content is posted.
When the author asked about this:
As of yet, Stack Exchange has not replied to the above post, but they did promptly and within hours gave me a year-long ban for merely raising the question. Of course, they did draft a letter which credited the action to other events that occurred weeks before where I merely upvoted contributions from Luigi and bountied a few of his questions.
You must log in or register to comment.
Lol @ the “Ross Ulbrecht requested that we keep his username” bullshit.
Oh ok, guys, nevermind. It’s not a big deal because the criminal requested that we keep their username…
What can Stack Overflow’s motivation possibly be to strip Luigi’s account? Are their private equity owners in cahoots with health insurance executives?
maybe its poisoning the ai training
A connection I may be inventing comes to mind: all the CEOs making million dollar donations to the new administration in the US.
Basically, show you’re on the side of “law and order” and hope you’re not caught up in any purges.
Kiss the ring.
Preemptive compliance.
In tejas we call that bootlicking
In Netherland we call that “kontkussen” which both means “butt kissing” as a verb and “butt pillow” as a noun.
It’s pretty standard when a highly-publicized murder suspect’s online profiles are discovered. Platform admins will typically disable/hide their accounts from the public while investigations/trials are ongoing. This is hardly unique to Luigi.
How would this apply to the fediverse
It probably wouldn’t, because it’s unlikely anyone is going to do the work, especially since there are a lot of jurisdictions involved. That’s a lot of work for a relatively small userbase.
It would depend on the software in use, but i think the instance admin could probably delete the account. About renaming… maybe, fiddling with the database. Again, depends on the software (and admin).
Do you have other examples? Because the article gave an example of a similar account that was not anonynized like this. Sure, accounts are often taken down, but the content isn’t left up.
I’m starring this cause I want to look into this myself, and if I find any technical sources that address this claim and actually detail this as a SOP, I’ll reply with that source later, or otherwise reply with “I didn’t find anything.”
Assigning to a number like they do prisoners.
Disgusting behaviour from Stack Overflow and the perpetrators.
we are all numbers. lemmy.ca has a user number for you, your government has a number for you, your local library has a number for you.
that is just how a digital world works.
I’m not a number, I’m a emojii!
What if I told you that television shows were dangerous? It’s true. In the year 2000, four out of every five injuries occurred in a home that owned a VHS copy of Robocop III. Someone might say, “That’s compelling Robocorrelation, but that data alone does not suggest Robocausation.” Fine. But maybe your first instinct was to say, “Robocop III is a movie, not a TV show, you fucking dumbass.” If so, then congratulations, idiot, you’re a Technical Genius. You’re smart enough to spot a technicality, but too dumb to know everyone else did too and it was light years away from the point. You’re the kind of person who tells your doctor, “Um, it’s Chief Chirpa?” when he tells you that getting the Wicket doll out of your asshole will require surgery. “And, um,” you’ll add, “it’s an action figure? Maybe you should have gone to a non-stupid medical school.”
The nice thing about being a Technical Genius is that it feels like proof you’re smarter than everyone. They can say you don’t “get it” all day, but they’re the imbeciles who think Robocop III is a TV show. Look at it like this: You are the only one in the history of Koala Times Bus Tours to contract syphilis from a koala bite. You might be embarrassed, but at least you aren’t like those other fools screaming “Don’t touch the koala bears!” when they are in fact marsupials. I mean, if koalas were actual bears, your whole face would be missing, not still here and covered in pulsing chancres.
Technical Geniuses reach maximum annoying when they decide that pointing out technicalities is a sense of humor. For instance, if you announced, “My wife is pregnant and we’re having a boy,” a Technical Genius might quip, “Well, technically only women can have babies. Unless you count the Chief Chirpa action figure currently breaching my anus – um, which you should, since it is the dictionary definition. Heard of it? Hey, everyone! This idiot with no dictionary is watching me shit out a Chief Chirpa, and he doesn’t even know which gender gives birth!”
probably was the internal id number, but still scummy behaviour.
He’s user number 24601 as far as I’m concerned
Gione Valgione
694201337
I hope Luigi sues them, I would donate to that fund.
Apropos of nothing, this was an article about substance from a year ago:
Substack faces user revolt over anti-censorship stance on neo-Nazis
Fuck substack.
It’s about SO but on SS so you were still right!
“Censorship forced me to flee a pro-nazi site to another pro-nazi site,” is a contradiction worth noting. It highlights the general pro-nazi vibe going around big tech.
There’s plenty of leftists, too. But the leftists threaten capital, and fascists don’t, so only one is being targeted/censored.
Corporate fascists need the muscle that the stormtroopers can provide in exchange for the loot they pillage.
That’s what we are seeing with the last 10-15 years resurgence of the alt-rights grift.
It’s less a resurgence and more that they’ve transitioned from AM talk radio/cable news to youtube, podcast platforms, and social media.
Fair enough
Not to be too “WELL AKSHOOOALEEE” I just think people - myself included - got used to how relatively quiet things felt in the mid 2010’s and didn’t realize this shift was happening.
I got you. You and I, brother - for a moment there it seemed anything was possible, but I guess the John Birch Society never went away.
Capitalists were always going to embrace fascism in the face of rising leftist movements and increasing inequality. Communist theorists predicted over a hundred years ago, and it’s been playing out exactly as they said it would.
The internet just isn’t fun anymore. Right wing bigots are stomping around and the best communities are all either crumbling or raising their bridges and filling their motes so AI can’t scrape them and these asshats can’t get in, killing the ability for new people to find them. And who can blame them? They want to protect their communities from very real threats.
The internet is Balkanizing and it’s to our collective detriment.
thanks for this revelation. I’m going to look down the rabbit hole for myself. what a story if his account is true.
They’re scared of Luigi still, got it
That’s not what the article is about. Stack Overflow has kept content that Luigi created up, but removed his username, in violation of Creative Commons. Edited the post to make that more clear.
If they weren’t afraid of what he represents they wouldn’t have removed his name.
Yeah exactly. And they’re not allowed to under the Creative Commons licence
…and yet…
Which is exactly the reason we are in a post discussing it.
Yup, it would be interesting to see this tried in court.
May I suggest a European one?
This is the equivalent of a bank robber standing in a vault, filling his bag full of jewels. One of the hostages yelling “You can’t do this, it’s illegal.” Some other guy yells “…and yet…” minutes before police sirens can be heard outside.
I look forward to Mangiine catching wind of this, which is basically theft, and adding it to the laundry list of things to be tried in court.
Indeed, I wonder if we’ll start seeing reforms before or after a copycat strikes.
I doubt before. They’re still hoping they can erase or villainize him. I expect the news media will ignore his trial in favor of whatever antics Trump or Musk are up to, and we won’t hear much about him until there’s a guilty verdict they can parade before the masses in order to dissuade them from copying him. If he does get mentioned, they’ll be trying to frame him in as negative a light as possible and downplay his motives. I also expect the big social media will censor discussion under the guise of not promoting violence, or simply shadow ban any mention of him.
Fucking terrified. I’ve never seen corpos circle their wagons like this before. It’s hilarious.
No, they’re terrified of us now, they know we tasted blood and are hungry for more.
I know I am. I’m so sick of this system they’ve created and perpetuated for decades/centuries. I just want to live my fucking life without worrying about basic needs, or how someone with most can take even more from those who have little. Americans have more guns per capita than almost anywhere else. Those are guns in the hands of the people, not mercs or armies or private security. They should be afraid of us. They should be checking their car’s undercarriage daily before getting in. They should vary their routes daily to avoid patterns. They should see every person on the street as a potential assassin. Only THEN, will anything about these parasites’ attitudes change.
Unfortunately, so many with the skills to engage in revolution are aligned with the interests of these corporate leeches, and thus are fighting the masses, instead of standing with them. They wanted a Civil War #2, it’s time to kick up, not down!
Most gun owners are biggest bootlickers out there… They didn’t get weapons to fight corporate tyranny, they got them to shoot poor people they don’t like
Actually, they got them to shoot gun-wielding home invaders who threaten (if not attempt to murder) their family members.
i have no love for brian thompson or ceos but the canonisation of a well off wealthy rich kid from a family of republicans is a bit disturbing.
He’s closer to you in class and status than Brian Thompson ever was. How fine a comb do you want to use to divide us? Where’s the line?
what does this have to do with dividing us? i mean they’re both not close to me. they’re both wealthy people from well off families. i think instead of donating a bunch of money to him, people should start donating to people facing vast sums of medical debt.
People do - through tax but the rich divert the funds through policy using laws that they’ve shaped to benefit themselves rather than the nation.
Honestly, if anyone has a chance of murdering the rich and setting a precedent of self defence over social murder, it’s another rich who can afford an excellent lawyer to see out the lengthy court case.
Instead of people paying for ridiculous amount of medical debt due to inflated amount of medical bill due insurance companies. Govt can pay for their own people medical coverage who are paying tax for them to run the govt.
sure but that’s not likely to happen with republicans in government.
If i have to say both are similar. They work for the ultra rich. They both don’t care about common people, you and I both. That’s why Luigi mangione did what he had to do. Making the rich know their place. Whether he is rich or not doesn’t matter. We needed to send the message across.
this who you’re defending when you attack Luigi’s character.
just making sure you’re getting the whole picture in view for everyone to see.
https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/slain-healthcare-ceos-life-airbrushed
you got me; because i don’t like swooning over rich privileged people i’m defending ceos… /rolleyes
I’m going to guess that you don’t understand exactly what you’re doing. So let me put it into a different context.
During the last major civil rights movement, the black community coined term “black lives matter”. To combat and drown out that message, conservatives created their own message, “all lives matter”. It was effective in the sense that it drummed up rage against conservative so much that the message of “Black Lives Matter” lost its volume and couldn’t be heard.
What you’re effectively doing, is pulling an “all lives matter”. you’re (unwilling or not) muddying the message that the elite and rich are abusing the system to take advantage of the people.
The mechanics of this message you’re supporting attempt to draw more attention to Luigi’s socioeconomic background over the actions he took. The actions he took being, the assassination of a CEO who has killed thousands, if not more, of American citizens based on the executive actions he took to increase profits over human life. Not only that, but he also supported unfair and inhumane treatment towards patients.
Fortunately, the message you’re unwittingly spreading is weaker than the real message behind the actions that Luigi took.
BTW, because I’ll probably get banned for posting his message here, I’ll share the article that has it. just in case you’re confused about why he did what he did.
comparing luigi to the civil rights movement and black civil rights leaders is wild… and grossly offensive.
people being offended by comparisons is something that puzzles me every time i see it.
One common trait between two things is enough to make an analogy. The differences between the objects being compared doesnt hinder the argument as it is based on the similarities alone.
the problem is more comparing a privileged rich white kid to black civil rights leaders
Pointing that A is like B regarding the aspect X is often treated as a “comparison” between A and B, but it doesnt imply that A is as great, as important, or as bad as B. It doesnt imply that A is like B in any way other than in the aspect X.
Why not focus on the point that is being made instead of freaking out over the angles from which the analogy breaks down. Every analogy breaks down from some angle.
The fact that OP took time to explain everything to you, and you choose to focus on such nonsense instead of seeing the whole picture presented to you shows you have no intention of learning or growing.
Very well said, I hope you don’t catch a ban for this comment.
He’s a good example of one can be a class traitor in a good way!
Why not idolize the folks crossing over to the right side of history?
“No wars but class wars” as true today as when Trotsky said it many decades ago. Not sure how anyone cannot see this very, very clear fact. But every other commoner that sees it needs to take according measures.
By this logic, everyone charged (not convicted, just charged) should have their accounts and submissions changed in the same manner as Luigi’s.
Man I sure wish this’d mean all Trump-generated content and speeches got deleted. That’d be genuinely helpful to the world at least…
Didn’t he confess though? That’s quite a bit different than a pending trial.
Pled not guilty. No he did not.
Pretty much everyone pleads not guilty, especially in a politically motivated murder charge (there’s always a chance of a hung jury or jury nullification). That said, his manifesto could be considered a form of confession and will certainly be used as evidence to that effect.
He pled not guilty, it really is that simple.
Innocent until proven guilty.
I never said he was guilty, I said he confessed. A plead of “not guilty” doesn’t necessarily mean you think you’re innocent (i.e. you perjure yourself; the 5th amendment protects against that), it just means you want to go through a trial. You can confess and still choose to go through trial proceedings.
To add, plenty of innocent people give false confessions of guilt. It’s a known pattern in human behavior especially under stress and duress.
I have no information to say whether this case is an example of that one way or the other, but just putting that out there.
I’m just saying that there’s probably enough evidence that it’s reasonable for a social media site to pull/hide his profile despite not being sentenced. He’s obviously innocent until proven guilty, but that doesn’t mean his profiles are immune from vandalism and whatnot.
I was not aware he confessed and can’t find anything saying he did. Do you have a source confirming he’s confessed?
It’s more his manifesto, which has a clear motive.
The presumption or admission of guilt does not and should not justify violating the Creative Commons License, nor perpetrating any illegal behavior agains any individual(s).
If JK Rowling went out and robbed a bank, or murdered an ex-Husband, in no world or timeline would that give a member of her publishing company the right to scratch out her name from any of her books and replace it with their own or someone else’s.
should not justify violating the Creative Commons License
Absolutely. Even a guilty verdict shouldn’t justify violating the Creative Commons License. It should either be completely taken down/hidden, or left in-tact.
That’s not at all what I’m saying though though, I’m saying that it’s reasonable for the site to take action to hide the account. He’s a public figure with an apparent confession, which is going to attract a lot of attention to that account that otherwise wouldn’t be there. They shouldn’t have done it this way since it violates the Creative Commons License, but I am saying that action to hide/disable the account is warranted.
Another comment way down claims it’s standard operating procedure for social media sites to disable/hide and account of a highly publicized murderer, particularly during investigations. However, the provided no examples nor sources or technical documents that detail this as something that is genuinely done as a standard procedure.
I’m kinda gonna do my own research on that, but I feel the validity of Stack’s actions would to some degree depend on the results of researching that claim, and whether or not that is true.
It’s kinda difficult to research something like that though when most highly publicized murders predated social media in its current form, so it would be hard to have a lot of examples despite there being a decent number of people who fit the bill, ironically.
So far, all I’ve found is a 2018 publication by the Police Executive Research Forum, entitled “The Changing Nature of Crime And Criminal Investigations”. It’s a 67 page document, and I’m curious to see if it discusses how their investigation tactics may have changed, and if so, whether the aforementioned tactic is mentioned as being included.
Headquarters seems to be:
70 White Lion Street, London, England, N1 9PP
To send all your angry letters too.
Make sure to include bullet points
Marked as triplicate
Gottem
Bullet points work best when using a 9mm font size.
(Approximately 25.5 pt. Now, the closest traditionally named font size is 24pt, called “double pica”, and Pica Pica is the latin name for the magpie, who is known for stealing and hoarding shiny things. What does this mean??)
Settle down, Charlie Day.
PowerPoint is seldom used in the Mafia because of all the bullet points.
I used to live in that neighborhood. That must just be one of those places that gives people an address that looks fancy methinks
It’s a place called “Spaces” seems like companies rent a small room or so as a physical presence.
Definitely not any kind of HQ. I’d be surprised if more than one or two people go there for Stack Exchange. Mostly remote employees?
Stack Overflow has been toxic for a long time already. It’s one of the things that a lot of people seem pleased to see AI devour.
I haven’t really had an issue with SA toxicity.
I’ve read it is still well valued because people will keep asking questions there when LLM can’t answer, so they remain a precious source of post LLM curated Q&A.
…for now.
Until it’s just AIs answering questions asked by other AIs while human admins block human accounts…
Valuable information source becomes bot recycling machine…? Hey, I Reddit before!
Solaria, here we come.
Just started reading Foundation, it’s very well written.
Isaac Asimov should be required reading for everyone.
Right? We have to read Shakespeare and Dickens, boring. So far, Foundation has had actually unexpected things happening and it engaging.
Yeah, AI has become good enough at this point that you can provide it with a large blob of context material - such as API documentation, source code, etc. - and then have it come up with its own questions and answers about it to create a corpus of “synthetic data” to train on. And you can fine-tune the synthetic data to fit the format and style that you want, such as telling it not to be snarky or passive-aggressive or whatever.
It can reproduce an api. Can’t solve actual problems. LLMs are completely incapable of innovation.
That’s not really true though… They come up with brand new sentences all the time.
No, they can only take from things in their models.
Moreover, all of them use statistics, typically Bayesian, to get the results. What you get from an LLM is essentially an average* of the model data. This is why feeding LLM output into a model is so toxic, it’s already the average.
- Yes I know it’s not really the average, but for laymen us good enough comparison.
They only take from the statistical distributions of words in the context of preceding words (which is why they never say “the the” etc, why the grammar is nearly always correct). But that doesn’t mean that whole sentences are lifted from the source material. There are near infinite paths through those word distributions, and many have never been produced by humans, so LLMs do produce sentences that have never been uttered before.
They couldn’t produce new conceptual context spaces in the way that humans can sometimes, but they can produce new combinations within existing context spaces.
And yet the synthetic training data works, and models trained on it continue scoring higher on the benchmarks than ones trained on raw Internet data. Claim what you want about it, the results speak louder.
The results aren’t worth the expense. So-called “AI” is the biggest bubble since the great recession.
Nah, I’m still giving that one to the blockchain. LLMs are going to be useful for a while, but Ethereum still hasn’t figured out a real use, and they’re the only ones that haven’t given up and moved fully into coin gambling.
This is the peak, though. They require new data to get better but most of the available new data is adulterated with AI slop. Once they start eating themselves it’s over.
You are speaking of “model collapse”, I take it? That doesn’t happen in the real world with properly generated and curated synthetic data. Model collapse has only been demonstrated in highly artificial circumstances where many generations of model were “bred” exclusively on the outputs of previous generations, without the sort of curation and blend of additional new data that real-world models are trained with.
There is no sign that we are at “the peak” of AI development yet.
It can but you to closely midwife it into doing so.
deleted by creator
To be honest, I had a bad experience a few years ago when I wanted to try contributing, and I never tried again. Yet, I think it’s really hard to strike a balance of freedom and constrains for organically curated Q&A, so I try not to be too fast on judging them considering the service that they indubitably provided to millions of people.
Is there a mirror for Stacks content? I’ve been concerned for some time that they are a vital resource that a corporation could ruin at any moment.
Stack Overflow seems to be doing a prompt job of that already
You can download pretty much all of stackoverflow as ZIM files for self-hosting.
I’ve looked into this but they aren’t exactly small, it’s not a straightforward operation for even the average developer or systems engineer to restore these into a working format.
I was thinking we need something along the lines of a read only public mirror run by the proper open source community - e.g. SourceForge or a major Linux project… ISP’s and universities offer mirrors of Linux packages so this could be a resource offered in the same vein. That’s my line of thinking as far as a StackOverflow mirror goes anyway!
Of course they aren’t small, but they are probably as small as it gets, since they are pretty efficiently compressed. I am not sure what you mean by
it’s not a straightforward operation for even the average developer or systems engineer to restore these into a working format
since it is really trivial to use them. Just load them with Kiwix and serve them as a website. It doesn’t get much easier than that.
I was referring to the file size being the barrier. The 2024 large database size of 202GB is prohibitive for the average person’s resource capabilities. i.e. I have a home VPS host and I don’t even have that much free space. Your cloud operating costs would also go up with the storage and bandwidth use.
There’s also two separate issues I was kinda mixing up. I’m a developer who uses StackOverflow and would like to use a resource that is readily available. I think it’d take a few hours to setup even a smaller copy of SO, which isn’t ideal for answering a quick question. I also don’t want to setup a whole mirror site with custom work just for myself and because I’m paranoid Microsoft miight buy them and paywall SO overnight or something.
I looked into doing something similar with Winipedia and the recommendation is also to use Kiwix, and the offline file size is also very large.
Welcome to the collapse! Hoarding “clean data” for personal use is like hoarding clean water and food: you need a place to keep it, and it starts going stale the minute you shelve it. So either buy a digital bunker to load up with what you need or ask the all knowing AI gods for answers like the other poors.
Also the Stack Exchange software used to be open source, surely there’s still a fork somewhere. You could certainly run your own Developer QA site, but like with Lemmy, the problem then is getting enough traffic to be able to productively tap into the collective wisdom.
I’m hoping community efforts are able to fill the void. I fear having to do this all myself and becoming some kind of Mad Max style tinkerer after the fall…
Old phones daisy changed together to act as a server… The remnants of StarLink for internet, getting nazi/rape threats from the remaining social media AI that live in all the satellites…
It would be nice if government backed up Wikipedia and SO. But considering they don’t give a shit about Linux which is arguably one of the most vital technical infrastructure projects of our lifetime…
When hosting this locally, I don’t see how 200 GB is much of an issue. Storage is so cheap these days, if you want to host it locally, just buy a 256 GB SSD just for that data for $20. Anyway, you were asking for a mirror, to which I replied with the information about the ZIM files. I don’t really understand the issue. Stackoverflow just isn’t that small, there is not much you can do about that.
I think it’d take a few hours to setup even a smaller copy of SO, which isn’t ideal for answering a quick question.
The download? Maybe, depends on your Internet connection’s speed. Actually serving it as a website certainly doesn’t take hours. It is rather a matter of seconds.
I’ve looked into this but they aren’t exactly small
Neither is SO’s content.
On Stack Exchange, all of the contributions on the site are contributed under a license maintained by a third party called Creative Commons […] the work remains properly attributed.
This is the main issue IMO
Yeah, I edited the post to call that out specifically
I cross posted this to Hacker News (which is very pro-CEO and big corpo) and it’s now rank 1 on the front page, lmao. People really support this guy
(And it’s funny because in the comments, people are seething “Nooooo he’s not popular, look at these polls that show he has 13% approval!!”)
(Not sharing link to avoid brigade)
What kind of world have we come into where Hacker News is a pro corporation website?
Hackers used to be the antithesis of big corporations and capitalist overreach.
“Look at our corporate polls! Stop liking him!”
Wait, seriously? WTF is it named hacker news? Hackers are the least corporate people out there…
Most American hackers need a security clearance to work, you won’t find them supporting Saint Luigi online
Because those are the equivalent of Hippies that turned Yuppies.
laughs in Google “do no evil”
The submission has been clearly penalized by hn moderators: Posted 3h ago, upvoted >600 times with almost 500 comments, ranking 23rd on the front page. Ranking first currently is a submission with 80 upvotes, posted 1h ago.
What does hn refer to?
Hacker News. it’s a link aggregator website and forum at news.ycombinator.com
Thx
Np
Wow, they also changed the title lmao. I posted it with the same title as the article
Even if the 13% number were accurate - that’s a pretty damning number. 13% of people supporting someone for gunning down a CEO in cold blood is terrifying to CEOs.
That’s not 13% hating them. That’s 13% of people celebrating someone for killing them. No lawsuits. No trials. Just gunning them down in the streets. Things have gotten really bad when you have that much of the population actively supporting your murder.
If billionaires were protected as we protect children in schools, we’d literally run out billionaires in a month.
You promise?
This is the only solution to modern world problems. Imagine how many problems we would solve right away if we started gunning down powerful people, CEOs, politicians.
Hackers
Pro CEO and Pro Corporate
What fuckery is this?
Live too long and become a villain
Lmao it has 3x as many votes as anything else on HN but the moderated pushed it all the way down to page 3 (position 60-something when I just checked).
