🖕 Fuck PayPal
And fuck Linus Tech Tips for intentionally keeping quiet about this after they found out.
This isn’t anything new. Brave browser does this, ad hijacking is a common thing. Many companies have been doing this for years, why is it only coming up now?
The best time to burn down a poisonous tree was 20 years ago etc etc
I don’t really wanna watch a video… but how do you “steal” affiliate links or coupon codes?
If you are doing affiliate marketing for a company and they give you a coupon code for 10% off called GET10OFF and that code gets used, the affiliate marketer gets the sale no matter where they got that code from?
I’ve slept since I watched and am not great with tech, but iirc the link with the affiliate code when clicked takes you to the site. Then honey has a pop up that, when clicked, replaces the link with their own, swiping the commission. Hope that makes sense - most people likely would not catch it. The Linus tech tips was used as an example of even a tech channel with lots of employees taking quite a while to notice themselves, and even when they did, it wasn’t quite conclusive for some reason?
Another thing the video touched on is that honey would claim to search for coupons but often opt to show what the partnered companies want. So, could be there’s a coupon for 50% but they only show 10%.
Ah gotcha. So what I said about coupon codes would be valid, but affiliate links are different than the coupon codes. Also crazy they hide bigger discounts.
Edit: But I guess they could find a company offering a coupon code, then sign up themselves knowing it’s an option now, and then show that code instead.
He says that when you click on an affiliate link, a cookie gets stored on your browser that lasts for 30 days, saying that the source should get the commission for your purchase. Honey has a popup in checkout, even when there are no codes, with a big “Got It” button to close the popup. Clicking the Got It button replaces the old cookie with a Honey cookie, giving the commission from your purchase to them instead of your source.
I have been using PayPal increasingly for online payments. Not sure why. I have heard old stories about PayPal but Honey seems really bad. Its basically a given that any fintech company are going to be dodgy scammers but PayPal seemed almost grown up and respectable. Guess not.
I use Klarna for basically everything I buy. I should probably reevaluate that. But I’ve had no issues so far. It notifies me when my payments are due. Helps me collect the sum of what I owe each month, each week. Helps me group payments to pay similar/connected things simultaneously, categorize purchases, etc, etc.
I really hope there’s nothing dodgy going on there. But at least I’m not giving them interest on anything I buy. Always make sure I’m paying my stuff on time, and no postponed payments.
I’m guessing their business model is to exploit people who have issues paying on time and to collect interest and late fees, as well as receive convenience fees from stores implementing Klarna as a payment option.
I really hope there’s nothing dodgy going on there
In 2023 they got a 1.1 million SEK fine for breaking the law that regulates working hours. To “allow” (strongly encourage) your employees to work nightshifts you need a collective agreement approved by the union, which they didn’t have.
More recently, they got a 500 million SEK fine for skirting the anti-money laundering regulations in Sweden.
But at least I’m not giving them interest on anything I buy. Always make sure I’m paying my stuff on time, and no postponed payments.
The whole “buy now, pay later” deal is a credit loan. They are most likely paying the merchant directly and using your loan as collateral to speculate on the market, until you pay them back for that loan. If that’s true, they are making profit on the interest gained from your loan.
I’m guessing their business model is to exploit people who have issues paying on time and to collect interest and late fees, as well as receive convenience fees from stores implementing Klarna as a payment option.
Correct. Like all credit banks they promote the “buy now, pay later” option before direct payment, which is becoming a pandemic on our society. Hardly any user interaction needed. They also offer their own payment plans which encourages buying even more expensive items you cannot afford.
The whole “buy now, pay later” deal is a credit loan. They are most likely paying the merchant directly and using your loan as collateral to speculate on the market, until you pay them back for that loan. If that’s true, they are making profit on the interest gained from your loan.
I’m not very educated in economics, so I’m struggling to understand this. Is there a way to easily explain this? I’m 38 so… please use big words if you like, but simple domain language. 😅
Oh you naive child
Maybe use privacy.com instead (they also have an app), they can generate virtual credit cards and you can set limit is (one time payment, or monthly $10 only, etc). It’s great if you need to cancel something or if they try to charge you extra. Saved me $150 when boost tried to charge me 1 year after I bought a phone from them!
It’s also great for predatory services like GYM membership that you can’t cancel.
I haven’t trusted LTT for about 5 years now.
Agreed. I remember enjoying their workshop videos a long time ago, but they can’t even be trusted for PC building info, much less anything else.
Ever since it was explained that Mr. Beast only smiles with his mouth, I get skeeved out every time I see him.
Mr Beast literally shadow banned the word teeth from his YT comments. It’s hilarious.
It’s a shame too, I really miss all the great tooth related discussions we used to have there.
Shit! You are right. Thats horrible. And explains why he freaks me out.
Mr. Beast is completely creepy.
His audience are largely children too
Oh… THAT’s what’s off!
A useful question to ask when hearing about a new company is “What’s your business model?”
There is no such thing as a free and benevolent product with an advertising budget.
Free and benevolent maybe not. but genuine and non malicious?
“What’s your business model?” “we make and sell delicious sandwiches. Customer buys the sandwich for a little mote than it costs to make so we get money for ourselves.” That isn’t a scam.
Correct. It’s not a scam. Because it’s not free. The sandwich had a price posted, you paid it, you received the product. Valid business model.
What would you think instead if you saw a NYT front page ad taken out for Free Sandwich Mart, the all-you-can-eat totally free sandwich emporium?
Or in this case, a free browser extension that paid to sponsor five thousand YouTube videos that promises to help you pay less money to every store you activate it on at no cost to you?
Yes. Which is why, when you see a novel service being advertised, it is a useful exercise to ask of them “What is your business model?”
Wikipedia
Show me a Wikipedia ad that they paid money for?
They have a budget spent on advertising on wikipedia itself, plus the cost of the emails they send out asking for donations.
Does it even count if you’re advertising on your own platform? If I’m able to see the “ads” in the first place, I’m already using it.
I also wouldn’t exactly call a donation drive “advertising” either. They’re not trying to onboard more users to the service, they’re nagging people who already use the service to give them money. Which is itself leaning a bit on the wall of what is and isn’t “free”.
Their advertisement budget is collected by guilt tripping Wikipedia users using the lie that the website would cease if they didn’t ”donate”.
Yes, their method of advertising/fundraising is atrocious. They still have an advertising budget and their product is benevolent and free.
I agree
Real as shit. I know idiots who think apple pays people scaling on how many downloads their app has xD (kinda like yt views)
“Where are they getting money to pay for sponsorships and what are their motivations”
Can we make a version of this add-on that replaces the links with a choice of charity links?
Might as well do some good in the chaos of the internet.
Just saw a video that the honey people are making another SCAM called PIE. They make an Ad blocker, then put their own ads. wtf.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/VTxnM3J0I0k?width=828&height=466
PayPal is not customer friendly, they also straight up steal funds by locking your account
Yeah, it’s wild how close PayPal came to killing Minecraft early on by locking all of Notch’s money as soon as MC started to take off.
So glad that eBay (as greedy as they are) started handling transactions instead of everyone using PayPal.
Yep, happened to me. They’re evil. They own Venmo too btw.
PayPal is not a bank. Your funds are NOT FDIC insured, no matter what their docs say.
In certain countries they fall under quasi-bank regulations eg. “PayPal Australia Pty Ltd (PayPal) is a limited Authorised Deposit-Taking Institution (ADI) with authority to provide purchased payment facilities (PPFs).”
That gives some measure of protection on how they handle your funds, but holy shit I would not keep any money in a PayPal account for any longer than absolutely necessary. I use it as a convenient intermediary between my actual card and sellers, no more than that.
PayPal is a class corpo parasite. They tax us
What to expect from the Musky one and the Vampire?
At this point, anything these goons “influencers” try to sell me on is a scam, and I’ll avoid it at all costs. People do insane things for money. Just watched a coffeezilla video on the CSGO gambling scam and holy shit, people are straight up heartless and have no humanity in them.
I respect coffee but he said nice things about MrBeast who is known to hire pedophiles and sexual pests
Bro just released a video investigating Mr beast. Lol
Ltt didn’t hide shit, they posted it on a public forum
They didn’t hide it, but a huge portion of their audience doesn’t read the forums. A 10 minute video of Linus ranting about them would have opened this scandal to a wider audience years ago.
Linus usually likes to rant about it on the WAN show then they usually make a clip for YouTube, but weird he didn’t do that for honey, maybe he didn’t know how far the scam went.
As creator that makes some of their profits from affiliate links, I don’t see how that could be the case for him.
Seems more likely they had a reason to avoid beef with PayPal.
Especially considering he hasn’t been shy about ranting about a lot of things from (insert latest apple thing) to “fucking eggshell”
Could have a non disparagement clause in their former agreement
non disparagement clause
Not the level of a non-compete clause but that’s a scummy thing I hope is not legal.
Linus said it would be on this week’s WAN show
There may have been non-disclosure agreements between Linus tech tips and PayPal Honey. They may have threatened to sue him if he went public. I’m assuming we’ll find out the details in the next few weeks.
And then they took sponsorships from Karma which does the exact same thing
Yeah, that not nothing but it isn’t far off. They have a massive platform. It deserved at least a video telling people about it.
If only they had some medium to post the information, perhaps a medium that that VAST MAJORITY of their viewers use.
“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
They’re complaint was that honey inserted their affiliate cookie even when they didn’t find a coupon code for you. I doubt they knew the full extent of the scam.
Plus, we don’t know what was in their contract with honey. They could still be subject to a non-disparagment clause.
I knew this was Douglas Adams by the tone but had to look it up to realize it was Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. Time for a re-read!
Some very vocal people on Lemmy just love hating on LTT. I don’t think this topic was worth them making a main channel video on, I think their forum post was good and I believe they even mentioned this functionality of Honey a few times on the WAN show. It wasn’t a secret, and anyone who cared to do in-depth research on a potential sponsor could have found out.
They could have been exposed to legal liability to report on a business partner like that.
I don’t think this topic was worth them making a main channel video on
Their viewers getting scammed by tech they promoted isn’t worth a video on their main channel? If they could legally do it I think they should have.
Some very vocal people on Lemmy just love hating on LTT
LTT have made mistakes but the dunking here does seem disproportionate.
And yet here’s the scandal being exposed TWO YEARS LATER. Yeah, LTT couldn’t possibly have handled this better… /s
They told everyone and nobody cared, turns out people care if a YouTube video is made framing the same thing differently. Like yeah, Honey’s practice is bad for the creator industry, but is it bad enough to bring it back to the people who took their money? No, I don’t think so.I think this is more of an example of how easy it is to get the masses angry with a YouTube video than anything. It’s good that more people are going to move away from this information harvesting app, but I really feel like the reaction and hatred is overblown and, at least for the hatred towards creators, unwarranted.
The way I see it, people still take money from predatory gambling sites, and if any creator deserves pushback, it’s them.
I’m so proud I never consumed these guys shit
Was it all that surprising to you though?
By the time honey hit the scene we had been ten years into “sketchy Browser extension that monitors your browsing habits and injects ads”
I guess getting flogged by your favorite influencer ads a veneer of legitimacy for a lot of people.
I think what was truly surprising is that they were bought for 4 billion.That much money for… basically an out and out scam. Paypal is that sure that it’s:
-
entirely legal
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Will never be stopped
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will return on a 4 billion investment.
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You guys think Rakuten does the same? I have got so much money from them.
Rakuten is up front about it. They force their affiliate links, then pay you part of their cut.
Honey forces their affiliate links in exchange for maybe finding you a discount code.
I also think Rakuten compensates me fairly. I take the payout in Amex points. Instead of money they give me 1 cent per point which I can leverage to a value of around 5 cpp through transfers
I never trust browser extensions outside of a select few. However, I have used Paypal quite a bit. I would think many of us have.
I avoid PayPal categorically
If something advertises on youtube it’s a scam. Simple to remember really.
This isn’t even remotely true. There are lots of advertisers and sponsors that aren’t scams. But unfortunately our consumer protection laws haven’t quite caught up to the digital marketplace. So there is a lot of room on the internet in general for scammy behavior.
As always, it’s buyer beware. As well as a big amount of content creator beware as well.
I don’t mind things that are an actual thing to buy. I want to research it first–you can get a better electric razor than Manscaped for not much more–but at least it’s clear how they make their money. Honey was obviously getting money from someone other than their users, and that’s an immediate red flag.
I and many other people naturally assumed that honey was getting their money from consumer data collection. Which is why I didn’t use the service myself. The surprise is the fact that the scam isn’t just consumer data collection but actually stealing commissions from content creators as well as using consumers as a gateway to stealing money from businesses that they have contracts with.
Yeah. PayPal bought a coupon browser extension for how much? If the only thing they do is save YOU money, how come they can afford a sponsored segment in a mr beast video?
That’s why I did not buy an eco flow or jackary. Too many influencers was a turn off. I went with BLUETTI.
If you’re sitting at a poker table and you can’t tell who the sucker is, it’s you.
Alternately, if you look at an online service and can’t tell what the product is, It’s you.
By that logic, linux users are the product.
No? The OS is the product.
I think the issue was with the original commenter’s phrasing. Facebook looks like a product. But the commenter meant “How the product is being funded”.
Of course, it gets hard when there’s multiple sources of revenue. You used to be able to spot ads and come to the conclusion that that was everything. Now an ad is just the tip of the iceberg.
Yeah, I feel like that’s usually a very accurate saying, but it doesn’t really work with a lot of open source projects.
I hate that you’re getting downvoted by so many people who don’t realize you’re pointing out an exception to the rule, and instead think you have some fundamental misunderstanding about how Linux works.
It’s difficult for others to take advantage of you when you can learn what the software actually does and have it modified to work another way.
Linux (for the most part) is open source but I’d argue the inclusion of any proprietary software/firmware/drivers means it ultimately isn’t.
They are getting downvoted for misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services and applying it to crowd sourced non-profit open source projects.
Truly open source projects don’t have suckers.
misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services
To be honest I don’t think that’s clear at all, it feels like it’s more a rule about being skeptical of free stuff online. And many for profit companies have open source projects that can be used safely even though the source is a for-profit.
I mean, yes?
The key difference is linux wants you to help make it better. Something like Honey steals your data, and steals money from others, and then wants you to make it better.
Linux is neither an online service, nor a business at all.
Except Linux has proper legal underpinnings that anyone with a few brain cells can verify.
You can compile your own code too
Hence why people always say do your diligence
And even if you can tell what the product is, it‘s still often you. “Premium” subscriptions for example might hide (some) ads, but services still collect as much data about you. Even grocery stores where the offer seems obvious are trying to bait you into installing their apps to collect data on top of charging you for every item. And sure it’s not relevant in this case, but it’s something we should never forget.
