Worth mentioning that the main US senator supporting this, Mark Warner, received substantial donations from Disney, which also poured 1.5 billion (with a B) dollars into Epic Games.
Wouldn’t be surprised if some bigwig at Disney pushed for this investigation, too, especially given how fucking flimsy the results were (55% of all hate symbols were fucking pepe the frog).
I feel like the kinds of people who assume every pepe is a symbol of hate are very similar to the kinds of people who assume that all metalheads are satanic. Some are, and some aren’t. It’s an overly reductionist view.
Man, I love frogs. The alt-right can’t take Pepe away from us.
Not only that, even the ADL try as they might can’t really make that claim with their chests. They qualify that pepe edits exist that have antisemitic connotations, which is true of literally any of the 4chan template meme characters.
There’s nazi trollfaces, nazi wojacks, nazi chads, you can’t use that as a reason to call pepe an antisemitic dogwhistle.
I don’t get how kids can be unsafe because of other kids being dumbasses. I guarantee the majority of the hate symbolism and speech on Steam’s forums, is from people under the age of 18. Kids are fucking little shits. Especially when they have no supervision, like on the Steam forums.
Teenage nazis when not moderated or taught otherwise will grow up to be adult Nazis, and also have the very real possibility of spreading their hate to others when not moderated. It may seem trivial like something to hand-wave away, but many of these people complaining about woke games will grow up to be hateful republicans like the ones currently trying to take our rights away. It’s not a laughing matter.
EVERYONE IS A NAZI.
Never heard of kids committing suicide due to being bullied?
Good point.
Civilization as we know it is an unsafe space for most humans
Damn you, Sid Meier!!!
It is dangerous indeed, I have lost hours without noticing
Those hours were safely recalled from your memory by the government Bureau of Memetics to protect your peace of mind. Thank you for your understanding.
Come back when you can argue without the “but the kids” line of thinking.
Authority fetishists really turning the screws on Middle Earth eh
Never forget, Steam allowed Alex Jones to publish his “anti-woke” video game there. And it was as disgusting as you can imagine.
Worst part is, it seems like it’s still up on the platform for purchase. They legitimately do not care. It’s funny though that they decided to ban one developer and their games because the person was being openly transphobic, so it seems like they’re trying to make people think they care, despite not actually caring.
Sort of like every business and corporation that has a booth at Pridefest. Many of them are hostile to the LGBTQ+ community, yet they’re at Pridefest just for the PR.
Yeah, sort of. Though they’re a bit more honest since they don’t even pretend to care about us. Probably hoping that if they stay quiet long enough the problem will go away and won’t hurt them.
I mean yeah, no shit. The steam forums could be removed at no loss to the human race, in fact it’d remove a non-negligible percentage of all really shitty talk on the internet if they deleted everything entirely.
There is some important ounce of knowledge there.
Let’s say a majority.The steam forums are fucking cancer. I was looking for info about a bug I was having with a newly released game. I instead saw an entire thread about how the game is woke and you shouldn’t buy it. The game has an implied lesbian character. Who gives a fuck? The game was pretty good btw.
I’ve seen whole threads in game forums dedicated to Nazism, and I myself have been called a “groomer” and the t-slur because people knew be as a boy before I transitioned. Legitimately horrible place, they absolutely need to take more action against this.
Sorry to hear about your experience. Are the forums moderated at all? All I see is people being terrible to each other. I also saw someone requesting a Brazilian Portuguese translation for a game and people calling them a fucking idiot and telling them to learn english.
There’s almost no moderation on Steam at all. Sometimes threads advocating violence get removed, or threads with a lot of hate get locked but it’s almost always long after the damage has been done and often times the ones doing nasty shit don’t end up getting banned.
It’s up to each game dev to police their forums, AFAIK.
Can they disable their steam forums if they don’t want to moderate them?
Yes, some are completely read only
That’s a good question. I would hope so!
I don’t use steam forums. But I have questions. Do the steam forums have any moderation at all? Is there a report button? Can you report comments or forum threads?
I want to know because I feel like a lot of social media has the same problem as steam forums and these tools exist on the majority of those. They rely on the moderation of fellow users.
I also question whether or not steam actually has an automod or anything like that. Or human moderators.
Please keep in mind that I don’t use the forums so I really have no idea. This is the first time I’m hearing about this, and I’m interested in knowing more.
I think it really depends on the game (genre?).
I mostly play economic strategy / tycoon games and the forums are pretty chill. The most “controversial” threads revolve around gameplay mechanics discussion or perhaps complaints about lack of updates.
I don’t think I’ve even seen anything approaching what you are describing in economic strategy game forums.
I would most definitely oppose shutting down the steam forums.
There’s the “this is too woke” gang, and then there’s the “this doesn’t have enough representation” gang. You can’t win.
Be careful of not putting plain hate for no reason at the same level than an overzealous minority advocating for rightful social changes.
But like, are there people that read it and get an existential crises? People need to learn to read and let go. There will always be dickheads and trolls.
While I agree with you that some people are too thin skinned to handle some conversation online… Steam forums or YouTube comment sections are really the very worst of the worst.
If all you read is trash tier content on a platform even if you understand it, it still sucks and remain quite infuriating.
Basically, steam forums are mostly trolling so at this point it’s not about the sensitivity of people but rather that these platform are particularly bad.
Steam forums and groups have become a place to organize far right raiding groups that have harassing people and bullying women and minorities or straight up nazism glorification as their sole objective and Steam just does not care.
Of course they don’t, companies only care when Pepsi Co and P&G take away their ad revenue for serving extremist content and catering to extremists. Valve has no ad revenue and is the only real PC game store on the block, so no one can make them “care” the way YouTube and Twitch, and other platforms are made to “care”.
I mean, if your gonna go for the worse of it all, 4chan is right there.
And 4chan has already been the recipient of government scrutiny, including a lawsuit attempting to shut them down.
Valve hasn’t openly stated they are like 4chan though, they may correct it if pressured since it wasn’t their explicit goal to be a right-wing safe haven. Maybe it is but they haven’t been open about it yet. 4chan is a lost cause when it comes to this, same as kiwifarms. They do not care and will not budge. Valve might since they need Governemnts not to ban them or publishers not to pull out else they lose money.
ADL says steam was unsafe after stating that pepe the frog is an extremist symbol to more than double the number of cases found.
Remove the meme, and take into consideration the number of users, 0.1% of users have used some form of extreme symbol or statement.
This is a reach for control and surveillance. Nothing else.
Fuck ADL.
Oh my god, is this you? https://discuss.online/modlog?userId=247367
No wonder you hate the ADL, they advocate for the rights of minority people you regularly undermine and attack. They’re working against you, especially because more protections means people won’t take your comments seriously and instead call you what you are, a troll, and you’ll also end up getting banned from more and more places.
@Ategon@programming.dev @erlingur@programming.dev @snowe@programming.dev Just so we’re clear, this person is on your instance, using your platform to spew hate towards minority people on the Fediverse. Just want to make sure you’re aware of this.
Yes that is me, and no I am not a transphobe. The ghazi mods banned me because I said that someone losing a visa for something they said is fucked up. I didn’t even know who the person was who lost the visa or what they had done. I have never made any transphobic statements whatsoever, and you can dive deeper through the modlog to find evidence of that because it would show.
Also, I don’t appreciate you trying to cancel me just because I don’t agree with your post. We’re adults here.
Thinly veiled transphobia is still transphobia, and even if you never said anything transphobic, your modlog shows a clear history of atrocious behavior such as downplaying death threats, engagement/promotion of bigoted ideology and just overall hostility and incivility in general. Things most server owners don’t want on their servers.
Also, I don’t appreciate you trying to cancel me just because I don’t agree with your post. We’re adults here.
No one’s canceling you sweetie, servers have rules, and when you break them or are an ass people won’t want you to be there. You’ve already been banned from quite a few of them, and the fact is a lot of your behavior indeed does go against PD’s CoC. These admins deserve to know since they likely won’t see the reports, and removals unless they’re investigating you personally.
I haven’t downplayed death threats. It was a conversation where someome falsely alleged that someone else had received death threats, which had no evidence, and the person in question never even claimed they had received any.
The rest is just me calling out misinformation about black myth wukong (the sexism allegations that turned out to be mistranslations) and about the harassment campaing against Sweet Baby Inc, bias in gaming journalism, etc.
I’ve never taken a specific political stance in any of their conversations. I just am against misinformation and censorship and call them out when they happen.
The reason I’m against what your post is about, is because ADL were extremely dishonest in their findings, and I think they’re biased or politically motivated to implement restrictions that require users to give up more private information about themselves, or not be allowed free speech.
And no, I didn’t break any rules either. Every ban I’ve faced have all been completely unjustified, which is why I’ve blocked most of the communities I’ve been banned on. It’s like being banned from hexbear and you saying that makes me deserve to get my account removed. The little information you get out of that modlog only shows the mods being biased.
O no you got caught and called out! How terrible for your privacy!!!
Okay, Asmongold.
I think every youtuber has talked about this now, not just Asmongold.
I made that exact statement in another thread on Lemmy before his video was even out, and it is the most obvious thing to point out so I doubt I was the first to do so either. And the way you phrase it makes it sound like you disagree with the argument. Do you consider pepe to be a dog whistle for racism? Because I think not even a small percentage of conspiracy theorists seriously do that. Or maybe you just want to argue with someone?
Well, the ADL has plenty of details about how and why Pepe is used as a hate symbol, but you already said “Fuck ADL”, so I guess you’re probably not going to be receptive to their explanation.
I already know the story of Pepe and the attempt at portraying it as a hate speech symbol. Almost everyone made fun of them when they first made that statement.
And the thing about Pepe is that he is a meme template. That means he can be used in any ideological statement, greentext story, copy-pasta or anything. It is very apparent that the ADL do not understand internet culture, and that’s why no one took their statement about pepe seriously. They have no idea what they’re talking about.
So you didn’t read it, got it.
For anyone who wants an example, go to the Helldiver’s 2 patch logs on the Steam Community Hub.
No matter which one.
can you link one? I’m on community hub looking for hate and can’t find it.
found someone spamming for LGBT stuff but most people just ignored it
https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/eventcomments/4635986512580739894?snr=2_9_100003_
Right wing and not understanding second degree, name a more iconic duo
Edit: Lemmy users and not understanding who people are talking about, name a more iconic duo!
I’m laughing with how relevant this feels to me.
Which is exactly why the US senator that said this is a left-wing Democrat, right?
Politics is so tiresome.
I’m talking about the users commenting on Helldivers patch notes. Just like with Starship Troopers, people on the right see Helldivers as inspiring when the real message behind the media is anti fascism.
I really like that there was a whole thing about building a super-weapon where players had to complete quests or whatever to contribute to its development. Then enough players compete the quest and the weapon was completed, and it turned out to be an orbital bombardment that killed enemies and players indiscriminately.
A lot of players were pissed but it’s so aggressively in-character I can’t imagine how they didn’t see it coming.
Jesus, that’s a lot of people afraid of gay people.
Young adults. What we gonna write laws to protect young adults like goddamn children now? Fuck off.
Wait… what’s wrong with laws that protect it’s citizens? This seems like pretty standard practice.
I’m not saying that I agree with this particular take but having laws in general isn’t a bad thing IMO.
Fortunately in the US I trust that their First Amendment has some teeth. If that were happening in most other countries, I’d be seriously worried that this senator might succeed with his evil plans.
on occasion one logs into the internet only to be confronted with the darnedest things said with such confidence
First amendment is for public spaces, a forum owned by a private comment isn’t a public space.
It’s a public space in Europe for sure. No idea why the US would think openly accessible forums are a private little backroom where rules don’t apply.
Privately owned company.
Another thing, the first amendment doesn’t protect against violent or criminal speech, like terrorist threats/advocacy, threats towards individuals (bodily harm, sexual assault, murder, etc.) things which there is no shortage of anyway on Steam and they have every right to force the platform to moderate this, on the count of it being against the law.
No it’s not a public space.
Public space would be a place like a national park or the sidewalk. These forums are owned and operated by a private company, they’re private spaces and can be moderated however the company sees fit. Same thing for Twitter or Facebook or Lemmy.
A senator has the right to tell them that they need to do a better job at moderating their platform if there’s reasons to believe they’re letting people threaten violence or incite criminal activity.
Alright that’s still a weird ruling to someone outside America though because something like a shopping mall or a parking lot are public spaces here too as well as anything that is openly visible on the internet. Which makes a lot of sense.
I think you’re misunderstanding the use of the term “public” here.
A mall is a public space in the sense that people can go, but it’s not a public space in the sense that it’s not operated by the government, it’s a private space.
I’m using the term public space in the governmental sense, not in the publically accessible sense. If you use that definition of public I’m pretty sure even in your country you can get censored and kicked out of a mall and moved off its surrounding property (the parking around it), because it’s privately owned. Once on the sidewalk you’re on public property though so you can do whatever you want as long as it respects the law.
Also, talking about Europe as a whole is wrong since different countries can still have different rules on the subject.
A shopping mall is absolutely not a public space, and if youre shouting slurs into a megaphone, or even just harassing random shoppers with your crazy beliefs, you are definitely going to be dragged out by security. And or/have the cops come to remobe you. I hope you understand how badly you just disproved your own point.
@Kecessa@sh.itjust.works misspeaks when saying “public space”—the term they are thinking of is “public forum.” source
The rules around what constitutes a true public forum and what the public forum doctrine even means are fuzzy, but in all cases the term refers to a space owned or created by the government.
Thus, a shopping mall, parking lot, or internet forum, being owned by a private company, is not a public forum and can’t really be defended on the basis of the public forum doctrine.
Finally, as @Blazingtransfem98@discuss.online points out, none of this matters anyway in cases of incitement to imminent lawless action like threats or terrorist speech, which the First Amendment does not protect.
See the US section, the use of the term “public space” in this conversation is acceptable as the term “public” is used in opposition to privately owned and not public in the sense that it’s open to the public like a mall is.
.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_space
The government cannot usually limit one’s speech beyond what is reasonable in a public space, which is considered to be a public forum (that is, screaming epithets at passers-by can be stopped; proselytizing one’s religion probably cannot).
that’s fair, i’ll edit to say speaks unclearly rather than misspeaks. thanks for the clarification :)
Think of it like your house. You can ask people to leave if they say something you find offensive. That is not infringing on their free speech.
If the owner of a shopping mall wants to ban the word banana, they can ask anyone who says it to leave. That is also not infringing on their free speech. That’s because shopping malls are not owned and operated by the government.
A US Senator is part of the government.
So? He doesn’t have to protect free speech on a private platform
You don’t say?
I’m surprised European governments haven’t demanded better enforcement of laws when it comes to hate speech on Steam. Instead they regulate stuff like lootboxes or spicy content because they think those are more harmful than fascism apparently.
The latter two are a much more broad and prevalent issue in the gaming industry overall. No need for the whataboutism.
That’s not whataboutism. Whataboutism is when someone brings something unrelated up to make the main topic look less important and that’s not happening here.
I would have agreed if they replaced steam with discord.
To be fair, Discord has been feeling the heat for a while, on multiple fronts and for multiple reasons. Not the least of which was a dumbass leaking classified information to his teenage buddies.
Or twitter
Or Facebook
