So, could users just ignore that and just buy an anti-virus product or use 0patch? If it’s like Widows 8, most apps will still be updated for a few years.
The most important thing to get updates in the browser tbh. That’s the source of nearly everything bad these days, and the main reason somebody would bother to update their PC.
I reckon they’ll continue providing updates for those for as long as there’s enough people using it. It’s not like Google are going to willing turn round and go “whelp, no more adverts and spying for these millions of users!”
Generally speaking that’s ill-advised, antimalware tools rely on heuristics and active samples.
You don’t wanna be the first person to get xyz virus. It’s certainly better than nothing though.
Unless you have an app you can’t live without Linux is the most accessible than it ever has been.
As a heavy user of Playit Live, Excel with macros and Google Drive, I’m stuck in a Windows World for a while yet. The first two could maybe run in Boxes if I send the audio to a USB device.
Can’t wait! Cheap linux laptops are abound!
7th gen Intel laptops with GPUs are already really cheap
If I were to buy used laptop, I’d want 8th gen or newer because that’s where intel finally made more than dual core for mobile.
I literally daily drive a laptop with a 4c/8t processor (6700-HQ) so I’m not sure what you’re talking about other than perhaps the lower end i5s
Edit to add, my other laptop with a third gen i5 is getting pretty long in the tooth though, so I wouldn’t go out of my way for something that old though
I mean mainstream processors of that age. Even regular i7s of 7th gen were just dual cores with HT.
I was very confused by your comment so I took a poke around Intel ark. I see what you mean now, most mobile processors for 4th and 6th gen (probably the most common generations for used PCs that are incompatible with 11) have 2c/4t on the U series processors, but looks like any HQ processor gets a full 4 cores and if it’s an i7 it gets hyper threading, putting them closer to parity with their desktop counterparts
Yep, I meant U series, which (at least where I live) were covering vast majority of the market. There was occasional HQ here and there, but not that often. AMDs offerings at the time were mediocre and nobody really used them so for me, that era basically overlaps with Intel U series hegemony when speaking about laptop cpus.
Unfortunately when there’s 11 will install on an 8th as long as it has a TPM.
Ah, so there won’t be overflow of big bussiness 8th gen laptops… Nevermind, I’d still avoid 7th gen myself.
Summary: M$ hates their users more than ever.
I don’t think they think about the user at all.
They want that telemetry/ad money baby!
the enshitification will continue until profits improve
It’s only enshitification for us.
My steam deck has taught me that I’ll be completely OK running linuxn(probably arch) as my daily driver with a win 11 dual boot (maybe just a vm?) for things that simply won’t work on proton.
SteamOS is not the same as its base Arch Linux. If you want something slightly easier but still Arch-based, try EndeavourOS (but please not Manjaro).
If you have the time, try switching on your own terms within the next year. It’s almost guaranteed you’ll run into issues, but trying to dual-boot now rather than later gives you all the time you need to figure it out before MS forces you on Windows 11.
Genuine question, what are your criticisms of Manjaro? I’ve been on it since about 2019, and haven’t had any major complaints.
For me, it feels like the best mix of features I’ve found so far. Pacman, AUR, very up-to-date repos, and Archwiki, without a lot of the major PITA manual labor I experienced with Arch. No shade on Arch, I just don’t have time in my life to constantly be tinkering and fixing basic stuff I want to just work.
Curious why some people recommend against Manjaro now.
Manjaro as a project is amateur hour, over and over again. Their practice of holding back packages is bad, causing many version conflict problems. Their software DDOSing repos is bad, they can try to pass the blame to pamac, but they are the ones shipping it. Their repeated inability to keep certificates updated is bad.
EndeavourOS should be recommended over Manjaro every time.
Interesting, I’ll give it a shot on my next rig. Looks like it came out after I’d already gotten comfy with Manjaro.
Can’t say with my use case I’ve run into any of those issues, though the cert stuff sounds kinda gnarly, especially to happen more than once.
It’s hard to argue against “ain’t broke why fix”, and frankly, I’m surprised your install has lasted so long without going sideways heh. If you avoid the AUR that’s probably helped. And I actually do believe manjaro has improved in the last year or two - it’s just difficult to recommend while endeavour and archinstall exist.
Fortunately this won’t be my first dance with dual booting Linux, I’ve tried it a half dozen times since the late 90s, going as far back as multibooting booting slackware, nt4 and win98. I’m sure I’ll go through a few distros before settling on one that works for me. I’ve also got 6 drives in my pc (2 nvme, 2 sata ssd and 2 HDD) so I have lots of room to play. One major thing for me is HDR support which is pretty new in Linux so I’m not sure where we stand on that.
I’ve been daily driving Endeavour OS for a few months now and it’s great. It’s Arch based so there is a learning curve but it’s worth getting over the hump.
Give Bazzite a try if you like Steam OS
You may want to try Arch in a vm before daily driving it. It’s an excellent distro, but vanilla Arch is a far cry from SteamOS.
Do not use Arch as a daily driver if you are a beginner.
Despite what some people will try to claim, Arch is not stable.
I’m in a similar boat. There have been some setbacks, but I’ve been planning a desktop build to replace my gaming laptop from 2015 for a long while now. SteamOS has given me the confidence to commit to an AMD build with a Linux OS. I’ve been on the fence between a few distro options though. Maybe mint, maybe Nobara, there have been a few others.
Is it going to be able to run decent games? I’m curious about support for GPUs. I guess VR won’t be a thing for a while.
VR “works”, but as someone who uses it, I can’t reccomend it for now.
Compatibility is wildly different between headsets. And no matter which route you take, you will need to tinker and troubleshoot. There is no plug and play solution right now.
If you want to plug in your VR headset, and just play some games, stick to Windows for now. If you’re fine tinkering around, there’s always SteamVR, but also check out Envision and Monado.
As for desktop games, you can find what works on ProtonDB. Most games work fine, with the exception of games with kernel level anti-cheat.
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/18A4-1E10-8A94-3DDA
Can confirm VR works!
every few years on Linux Discord groups across the internet
“Hi, Windows just stopped support, you guys got any suggestions?”
“You should definitely try LFS, it’s great and you’ll have exactly what you want!”
“Arch btw! Customize everything and no bloat, hurr durr!”
“NixOS is the future, go for it!”
True, i daily drived arch for 8 years and argued with one who advised arch to windows refugees, some people seriously think that arch is good for people who haven’t used true Linux not one bit in their lives
This shit is what kept me from making the jump for a long time, the hardcores just don’t know how hardcore they are and think the average person can just pick something like that up in an afternoon.
These who don’t know how hardcore they are, don’t touch grass, in short they are basement dwellers that residing in online echo chambers, i mean, i was daily driving arch for 8 years and i know i was hardcore one because i am going to university and working on a job, i mean i am seeing people and comparing myself to them, and those who seriously thinking that everyone can pick up linux in an afternoon, these people not having enough socialisation that’s for sure
Mint
I’ll switch my windows drive to the LTSC IoT version, when this happens. The only reason I have dual boot is for a fallback, if some games make trouble. For example for whatever reason BG3 multiplayer freezes randomly on linux. Single player is fine though. So until I got that sorted out I can fall back to windows. But when even the LTSC support runs out, then that’s it completely for me.
This sucks for me. I have to install Windows 11 on my other hardrive for work. I daily drive Linux.
It’s hell. But at least you can dial boot the damn thing.
work is work
I’d get a whole second machine and a KVM switch, it would save you much trouble
That is actually a great idea.
Thank fuck, it’ll stop asking for reboots.
inb4 reboot to install windows 11
I deliberately did not enable SecureBoot or whatever it is that prevents it from updating.
Windows 10 will have been around for 10 years at that point. That’s a pretty good run. You know another OS that is stopping support after 10 years? Ubuntu 14 LTS, but no one complains about that. People freaked out when Windows 7 went EOL, and XP before that.
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I just find it fucking hilarious that people expect software to be supported in excess of 10 years, paid or not, when that’s never really been the case over the past 40 years of software. Sure someone will probably come up with an edge case somewhere, but if you developed software, and continually released versions and updates, would you want to maintain a version you released that long ago?
Well, MS did at one point say Windows 10 would be the last windows and they’d just keep updating it.
I just used Emacs a little while ago. A piece of software that’s been supported since fucking 1985. There is no technical reason for Windows 11 not to work on a machine that’s only a few years old and ran 10 just fine. It’s literally still the same NT kernel. In the past, you could still upgrade, and your computer might slow down and struggle a bit to run the newer OS, but it did run. This time, for the first time, they are forcibly cutting off older PCs for no good reason other than the TPM bullshit.
Spit out that corporate Kool aid.
Linux works fine on older machines and can give them new life.
I recently had to use a smart phone that is over 10 years old (Samsung Galaxy S5 mini) and believe it or not, YouTube and Facebook Messenger still worked. It was slow a hell but it still worked fine.
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It’s not an expectation of 10 years of software but hardware support. I’m sure people would have upgraded to W11 if they could but unimaginable amount of hardware is going to be stranded for the dubious benefits of TPM 2.0.
Linux booted on a machine from 1971.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/09/hacker-boots-linux-on-intels-first-ever-cpu/
XP was kind of a F up for MS, they gave us a really decent OS that raised our expectations. People ran that for almost 2 decades because no one wanted the new OS’s MS was putting out like ME and Vista. Win 8 was out when XP support fully ended and many people chose to go with the older Win 7 because it was less intrusive and more like a PC OS instead of trying to become like a Apple/phone/tablet interface. XP>Win 7>Win 10>Win 11 imo and all the unmentioned weren’t worth upgrading for, but I don’t use my phone for the internet and I’ve been using a PC for over 40 years. We like what’s familiar and we can use without having to think too much about the tool used to achieve what we’re doing. I have Win 11 on a laptop and I have to jump through a lot more hoops to control my desktop, who can pull my info, what can install, what can run in the background. And every update I have to do it again because they add shit back in again along with new stuff I don’t want or need. Win 10 professional at least minimized how often they’d add new stuff or change my existing settings. Win 11 Pro doesn’t seem nearly as friendly.
I’m really excited for when the health authority I’m working for that uses win10 needs to frantically switch every machine to win11… Going to be such a relaxing time
/s
You’re using a consumer version of Windows? Businesses can pay for extended support.
Oh true, forgot about that. In that case we won’t think about it for a few years I’m sure…
I’ve suggested we modify a Linux distro to use instead, but no one seems to want to pay for the setup. Which is fair I guess.
No worries, I was genuinely asking. My gf works at a ~€10b multinational engineering corpo and they use what seems to be a consumer version (it has ads!). I work for a different corpo and we have LTSC version so big features come later once properly tested.
Have my second pc on running Linux mint for about half a year now and it’s been a pleasure so far.
I think I’ll be prepared to switch over fully in a year.
So fucking refuse to switch over to 11
I keep trying but I can’t make Xlink Kai work with Dolphin, nor play using Zerotier for some lan games (tModloader, mostly)… Managed to make my DRG and Gunfire Reborn run, so I got that going for me.
Until I can make those 2 networks work, I’ll have to stay on Windows.
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What do you use to run the VM? I run Mint and have been meaning to get a Windows VM up but there are too many options
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VirtualBox for me
virt-manager
Thanks, I ended up going with virt-manager and it was relatively easy
I only have one computer that can run 11 because of the TPM module, it upgraded by accident.
All others will run linux
Pretty telling when the only way you can get your users to “upgrade” is by stealth. I wonder what the % of involuntarily upgraded win11 users is vs people who knowingly and willingly did so.
I would’ve upgraded to 11, but either my computer doesn’t support TPM or I just refused to turn it on. So instead I upgraded to Ubuntu. There are probably better distros but I had a limited about of time to fuck around trying them.
Mint is pretty nice, too. It felt familiar, as a windows user. But I kept installing stuff that broke the updater. So I switched and found it’s me, not the updater, and I just need to do
apt update/upgradeanddpkg -iregardless, but anyway now I’m on Ubuntu.I still have my full windows install on an SSD somewhere if I had an emergency, but I haven’t had any such emergency in about a year.
Me too, but im betting windows 10 gets an extension. Microsoft will take too much flack ending support while so many people are still on 10 and too many computers that can’t upgrade are still in use. They’re going for a scare tactic to try and fluff up 11’s numbers a bit before doing it is my guess. 62% of computers are still on 10 right now. They won’t end support.
All of the random BS it requires is a bit of a turn off but the 10ish percent drop in gaming performance is a no go. Linux with proton should outperform the os the games are designed to run on but here we are.
Same bruv.
I’m using Linux mint all day at work, while I have a couple of rarely-used Windows machines at home. I think the swap to Linux on those home machines is going to be a winter project this year.
It might be more accurate to say the project will be setting up the Linux version of a few key pieces of software. The actual installation of Linux Mint is the easiest part!
time to block microsoft in pihole then.
no Microsoft, no updates.
We have all heard this song before and know how it ends.
Yeah. A lot of people loudly declaring that they’re switching to Linux, followed by them staying with Windows anyway.
Good. I happen to know companies that will have to kick out some rather nice machines that happen to be just under spec for Win11. Those machines are still top for running Linux.
Win10 LTSC still has quite a few years left.
It’s not available for individual consumers though unless you pirate it, isn’t it? (which makes it perfectly good reason to pirate it)
Pirating it is a bad idea if you’re downloading it from a non-Microsoft source, since malware would be a big risk. That would defeat the purpose of installing a supported OS in the first place. If you download it from Microsoft and use a pirated key maybe that would work, but would you get the security updates?
Are there people downloading Windows copies somewhere else than straight from Microsoft? I haven’t used Windows on my computers in 10 years but back then you installed it in trial mode and then activated / kept it activated with KMS tools.
Type “github MAS” into your favorite search engine.
Oh, how nice of Microsoft to host it!
What’s the point of staying with Windows 10? You’re just pushing the problem further ahead in time. You might as well start leaning Linux now, instead of waiting til you have no other choice.
I can only speak for myself, but I have always had bad luck with Linux on desktop. Something always breaks, isn’t compatible, or requires a lengthy installation process involving compiling multiple libraries because no .deb or .rpm is available.
On servers, it’s fantastic. If you count VMs, I have far more Linux installations than Windows. In general, I use Win10 LTSC for anything that requires a GUI and Ubuntu Server for anything that only needs CLI or hosts a web interface.
My experience with Arch and BTRFS has been nothing but great. If my system break I can just roll back a snapshot.
I avoid Debian, Ubuntu or other distros that hold back package versions because that’s where the problem starts in my opinion. I shouldn’t have to use workarounds to install the packages I want. Arch with the AUR just work so far.
Might try again. It’s come leaps and bounds in the past few years. I’ve been Linux only for the past few years after dual booting for many and the one thing I miss is game pass. Every game I’ve tried on steam or gog works — often better than on windows.
Try Pop_OS!, it just works.
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Ironic that Windows has become the same way. New functionality is available first as a Powershell command before the GUI control is written. This is because those are two efforts. First you write the function then you need to call the function from a GUI element.
Ironic #2 is that Pop_OS comes with more settings available in the GUI than any other Linux I have used. Maybe you haven’t tried it.
To say no distro can fix is nonsense. Any distro can make new GUI elements and because it’s open source once the work is done other distros can add the same to their own menus.
Just like it has taken Microsoft over a decade to develop the new settings app, they still haven’t achieved feature parity with the control panel. This should make obvious how much hard work is required.
So the solution is that we just need to write more GUI menus for linux and I’m fine with that. It’s nice to have the option to use a menu or edit the text file. Then everyone gets what they want.
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Yes, literally everything you mentioned can be changed in the gui of pop_os. You should really try it before being so confidently incorrect. It’s not a matter of won’t because they already did. They are making improvements all the time.
At least for me, the whole “made by devs for devs” isn’t really the major downfall. It’s the fact that it can’t be trusted to remain functional in a dynamic environment. I like using the command line, but sometimes that’s just not enough.
If I need a specific software package, I can download the source, compile it, along with the 100 of libraries that they chose not to include in the .tar.gz file, and eventually get it running.
However, when I do an “apt update” and it changes enough, then the binary I compiled earlier is going to stop working. Then I spend hours trying to recompile it along with it’s dependencies, only to find that it doesn’t support some obscure sub-version of a package that got installed along with the latest security updates.
In a static environment, where I will never change settings or install software (like my NAS), it’s perfect. On my desktop PC, I just want it to work well enough so I can tinker with other things. I don’t want to have to troubleshoot why Gnome or KDE isn’t working with my video drivers when all I want to do is launch remote desktop so I can tinker with stuff on a server that I actually want to tinker with.
Most of those CLI instances I had to do on week one.
Since then… Hardly ever. (On Pop_OS!)
Windows Mixed Reality (ie: Windows VR) was deprecated and removed from Windows 11.
So, if you have a WMR VR Set, you’re going to be stuck with Windows 10 (or an even lesser supported Version of windows 11 - v 23H2).
It really sucks, given the price point I’ve throughly enjoying my Odyssey+. I’ve had it for 4 years, but now I’d need to decide if I dual boot (which sucks) or see if another VR headset reaches my price point (which is also dumb, because I don’t find the O+ to be “that bad”).
Some people just need to use Windows you know?
But if you can’t run Windows 11 then you’re on your own once the support for 10 stops…
Ok, but if you need to use Windows then prime telling you “Just install Linux” isn’t a solution.
QEMU is para-virtualization at near native speeds and supports GPU pass through for ya vidyagames.
Needing Windows isn’t just about video games
Sucks to be you then.
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Staying on an old and unsecure OS sure is a solution, but it’s incredibly fucking stupid.
At least you could install Linux and use an old Windows version inside a VM instead of running a vulnerable system on bare metal. That way you can still use Windows when you need to.
Windows isn’t any less vulnerable now than 1 week after end of support.
People with exploits available that are unpatched are waiting for that end of support. It increases the value of their unreleased exploit.
