Windows 10 will have been around for 10 years at that point. That’s a pretty good run. You know another OS that is stopping support after 10 years? Ubuntu 14 LTS, but no one complains about that. People freaked out when Windows 7 went EOL, and XP before that.
Ubuntu isn’t as paid as Windows. Also, newer Ubuntu versions don’t need the user to throw their machine away because TPM 2.0 or NPUs are missing. Maybe these are two of the main reasons why nobody is complaining about its EOL.
I just find it fucking hilarious that people expect software to be supported in excess of 10 years, paid or not, when that’s never really been the case over the past 40 years of software. Sure someone will probably come up with an edge case somewhere, but if you developed software, and continually released versions and updates, would you want to maintain a version you released that long ago?
Problem is that newer systems aren’t compatible with “old” hardware. So to you know, these computers being disregarded are still functional machines, if it weren’t for Microsoft and other big techs bringing new requirements. What to do with lots of machines that doesn’t have TPM 2.0? Ditch em all, contributing to more e-waste? This thought almost rendered an paralyzed man unable to walk again, as an “old” $100k exoskeleton was deemed “out-of-warranty”.
Linux booted on a machine from 1971.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/09/hacker-boots-linux-on-intels-first-ever-cpu/
It’s not an expectation of 10 years of software but hardware support. I’m sure people would have upgraded to W11 if they could but unimaginable amount of hardware is going to be stranded for the dubious benefits of TPM 2.0.
Linux works fine on older machines and can give them new life.
I recently had to use a smart phone that is over 10 years old (Samsung Galaxy S5 mini) and believe it or not, YouTube and Facebook Messenger still worked. It was slow a hell but it still worked fine.
Well, MS did at one point say Windows 10 would be the last windows and they’d just keep updating it.
I just used Emacs a little while ago. A piece of software that’s been supported since fucking 1985. There is no technical reason for Windows 11 not to work on a machine that’s only a few years old and ran 10 just fine. It’s literally still the same NT kernel. In the past, you could still upgrade, and your computer might slow down and struggle a bit to run the newer OS, but it did run. This time, for the first time, they are forcibly cutting off older PCs for no good reason other than the TPM bullshit.
Spit out that corporate Kool aid.
XP was kind of a F up for MS, they gave us a really decent OS that raised our expectations. People ran that for almost 2 decades because no one wanted the new OS’s MS was putting out like ME and Vista. Win 8 was out when XP support fully ended and many people chose to go with the older Win 7 because it was less intrusive and more like a PC OS instead of trying to become like a Apple/phone/tablet interface. XP>Win 7>Win 10>Win 11 imo and all the unmentioned weren’t worth upgrading for, but I don’t use my phone for the internet and I’ve been using a PC for over 40 years. We like what’s familiar and we can use without having to think too much about the tool used to achieve what we’re doing. I have Win 11 on a laptop and I have to jump through a lot more hoops to control my desktop, who can pull my info, what can install, what can run in the background. And every update I have to do it again because they add shit back in again along with new stuff I don’t want or need. Win 10 professional at least minimized how often they’d add new stuff or change my existing settings. Win 11 Pro doesn’t seem nearly as friendly.
time to block microsoft in pihole then.
no Microsoft, no updates.
Can’t wait! Cheap linux laptops are abound!
7th gen Intel laptops with GPUs are already really cheap
If I were to buy used laptop, I’d want 8th gen or newer because that’s where intel finally made more than dual core for mobile.
Unfortunately when there’s 11 will install on an 8th as long as it has a TPM.
Ah, so there won’t be overflow of big bussiness 8th gen laptops… Nevermind, I’d still avoid 7th gen myself.
I literally daily drive a laptop with a 4c/8t processor (6700-HQ) so I’m not sure what you’re talking about other than perhaps the lower end i5s
Edit to add, my other laptop with a third gen i5 is getting pretty long in the tooth though, so I wouldn’t go out of my way for something that old though
I mean mainstream processors of that age. Even regular i7s of 7th gen were just dual cores with HT.
I was very confused by your comment so I took a poke around Intel ark. I see what you mean now, most mobile processors for 4th and 6th gen (probably the most common generations for used PCs that are incompatible with 11) have 2c/4t on the U series processors, but looks like any HQ processor gets a full 4 cores and if it’s an i7 it gets hyper threading, putting them closer to parity with their desktop counterparts
Yep, I meant U series, which (at least where I live) were covering vast majority of the market. There was occasional HQ here and there, but not that often. AMDs offerings at the time were mediocre and nobody really used them so for me, that era basically overlaps with Intel U series hegemony when speaking about laptop cpus.
Recently decided to try Linux for gaming. It wasn’t without a hitch or two, but largely fine. A number of games I play don’t even need an emulation tool like Proton.
The only reason windows was lying around was for gaming.
Looks like it’ll only get used for flight simulation.
Wine Is Not an Emulator
(Proton is wine)
Proton uses Wine along with many other technologies
Yes, it’s also not an emulator.
Same here but for sim racing
deleted by creator
Peripherals. AFAIK Fanatec gear doesn’t run on Linux yet.
There are some drivers: https://jugandoenlinux.com/tutoriales/volantes.html
Thanks for this. I’m kinda concerned about attempting this on my current machine. I’ve got it set up as a music studio PC with Steam as a secondary feature. It works great with all my recording peripherals so I’m hesitant to introduce additional complexity to it with these drivers. I’d like to move away from Win entirely but its not exactly a do or die situation for me right now.
My linux install is on its own SDD separate from Win. I only use WIN for simracing and counter-strike so that use case is very limited. Also I don’t think iRacing’s anti-cheat runs on Linux yet? I’ll have to investigate.
Barring Gamefreaks games, most of the popular racing games do not support Linux well. Forza 4/5, Asseto Corsa, iRacing, Crew.
X-plane natively supports Linux, works using proton too.
I’d stoped flying x plane when MSFS came out. Will give it a whirl too.
Have you tried flightgear?
Haven’t. Will check it out! Thanks.
Not a lot of updates in 2024 unfortunately. Is it dead?
It is not. It is open source, there will be updates when there will be updates, they are not pressured by board of directors to release something that doesn’t work.
I suggest checking the discord for more information, including endless stream of screenshots, to get an idea about state of the project.
I have edited the comment above to add link
https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/flightgear/ci/next/tree/
This random git repo I picked from their source forge page seems to have some pretty recent commits. I’m guessing they just have a slow release cycle.
Oh no! Anyway, nobody cares but Linux folks looking to prove how much better Linux is.
And tax payers who have to replace perfectly good systems in schools and government offices.
There will be DOZENS of 10 year old computers that survived 10n years of service in a library or student run orgs. Dozens I tell you!
Let’s fix school funding instead of using it as an edge case to support old ass hardware that can barely hold 10fps in a zoom call.
Here in my southeast European shithole I’m not worrying about my tax money, the upgrade is going to be pretty cheap, they’re just going to switch from unlicensed XP to unlicensed Win7.
Honestly, i predict people and businesses will keep using Win10 years after it’s become unsafe. We’ve all seen the local warehouse still running WIndows 7, i’m thinking that scenario but for millions of users.
That’s a cypersecurity problem, but what i’m most concerned with is the e-waste problem, because there’s still going to be a lot of users that do replace their PC. There aren’t enough Linux users to buy all the computers that will be rendered obsolete, and there won’t be by then either. I myself am a new Linux user but i’m already covered, i don’t need more computers, not even for cheap.
I just really hope this doesn’t end with millions of good computers landfilled or parted. The third world already buys a lot of our e-waste, so i hope they’ll get a crapton of relatively good computers for cheap and run either WIn10 or Linux
We’ve all seen the local warehouse still running WIndows 7
Why would they stop? They don’t need the internet. They gain nothing by using a different version of windows.
Most (hopefully all) computers in industry running outdated OSs are disconnected from the internet for that exact reason.
It will legit be a fantastic era for Linux on the desktop though… imagine how cheap we’ll be able to get perfectly good hardware.
I think so too, but like i said there’s only so many computers that you can find a use for.
I think. That wasn’t a challenge, don’t prove me wrong
I’ll switch my windows drive to the LTSC IoT version, when this happens. The only reason I have dual boot is for a fallback, if some games make trouble. For example for whatever reason BG3 multiplayer freezes randomly on linux. Single player is fine though. So until I got that sorted out I can fall back to windows. But when even the LTSC support runs out, then that’s it completely for me.
mine hasnt been updated for about 3.5 years now. not having online access has its moments
But you had to fax this comment in.
see? your limited understanding of the many ways to communicate are on full display
I’m curious. How are you sending these messages without Internet access? I too am ignorant to the many ways of achieving this.
a little doodad called a cell phone
…which has internet access?
So, could users just ignore that and just buy an anti-virus product or use 0patch? If it’s like Widows 8, most apps will still be updated for a few years.
The most important thing to get updates in the browser tbh. That’s the source of nearly everything bad these days, and the main reason somebody would bother to update their PC.
I reckon they’ll continue providing updates for those for as long as there’s enough people using it. It’s not like Google are going to willing turn round and go “whelp, no more adverts and spying for these millions of users!”
Generally speaking that’s ill-advised, antimalware tools rely on heuristics and active samples.
You don’t wanna be the first person to get xyz virus. It’s certainly better than nothing though.
Unless you have an app you can’t live without Linux is the most accessible than it ever has been.
As a heavy user of Playit Live, Excel with macros and Google Drive, I’m stuck in a Windows World for a while yet. The first two could maybe run in Boxes if I send the audio to a USB device.
Still waiting for Fedora to get VR support
Oh, look, a post on Lemmy about Windows. I’m excited to engage in a unique, nuanced discussion about the topic of the post!
So glad I’m not on Reddit where people just repeat the same predictable thing over and over then jerk each other off.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Linux. The operating system is extremely nuanced, and without a solid grasp of command-line interfaces and system architecture, most of the concepts will go over a typical user’s head. There’s also the community’s open-source philosophy, which is intricately woven into its development—its principles draw heavily from the ideals of free software and collaborative coding. The true enthusiasts grasp this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to appreciate the depths of these systems, to realize that they’re not just functional—they represent a radical shift in computing. As a consequence, people who dislike Linux truly ARE uninformed; of course, they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the brilliance behind commands like “sudo,” which itself is a profound commentary on user permissions and control. I’m smirking right now just imagining those confused novices scratching their heads in bewilderment as the power of the terminal unfolds before them. What fools… how I pity them. And yes, by the way, I DO have a Linux tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the tech-savvy eyes only—and even they have to demonstrate that they’re within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Linux.
Not necessarily. ChromeOS is Linux, and is easier to learn/use than Windows is.
The true enthusiasts grasp this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to appreciate the depths of these systems, to realize that they’re not just functional—they represent a radical shift in computing.
Unix (which Linux is based on) is 50 years old. I agree that Unix/Linux is vastly superior to Windows though.
Quick question, was that an existing copypasta or did you come up with it
You don’t like people fervently ignore it the article and just broken recording “install Linux” and “Linux is so much better than it used to be”?
Cool. I use Linux for something and windows for others and Mac for others!
How and why do you have 3 operating systems. Across how many platforms?
Software engineering work.
Mac for code and other work tasks
Windows for personal use during work
Linux for hosted applications and side projects.
It’s all part of the authentic lemmy experience.
Wtf is this a reasonable comment to discuss a nuanced topic where a person who never used Linux and has no desire to can maybe find options to adjust and keep my windows from enshittifying?
Inb4 get linux
I get it. I just don’t want to learn a new operating system. And to make it work for most of what I use my computer for.
What did you learn about Windows that makes your knowledge about it so in depth that you can’t separate from it any longer?
Besides using it since Windows 95, I’ve done everything on it. Warez, making shady software work, learning the ins and outs to keep it my way.
I thought about switching since I’ve dabbled in dual boot before, but I just f don’t want to be restarting my computer to keep switching between OS when one can do all I want with some baggage, and the other can do less without it.
Mainly for me it’s compatibility. Discord, MW3, networking between my main PC and HTPC. Online gaming with friends. Full steam support.
It just works. Switching to Linux, finding a distro that will encompass what I do, running into problems, having to fix them, or worst case scenario finding out that I can’t do the thing (mw3 or any game that has denuvo) without having to switch back to windows anyways in a dual boot I just don’t see why having Linux to do anything that I’m already doing on windows is worth it. Why have dual boot. Removing the annoying windows baggage is just not enough for me to switch.
I just now switched from chrome to Firefox because they finally implemented the removal of anti ad extensions. It was an easy switch. The UI is a little different. But I hate nothing more than ads. Despise them. And paying to remove them isn’t an option because it means I’m giving into the hostage situation.
If windows becomes unmanageable, I can’t find ANY software to remove ads, even remove windows features that I can’t live with, then I’ll consider sacrificing the few things I can’t do on Linux and move to Linux.
I just feel like a fool for buying win10 and then upgrading to the Pro license a couple years back for something like $300 in total, only to keep getting completely irrelevant ads shoved down my throat. Buy Xbox game pass (never cared about it), MS365 subscription (I already had it, why do I get ads for it?), One Drive (I already had this as well), etc. And I’ve been with MS since DOS days and then the whole shebang as well. It’s just unacceptable to me.
I’ve also been dragging along data from one old hdd to the next as I kept upgrading, with some files still being retained from the 90s. I have a lot of demo scene material and what not, and one day when exploring the directories, I’ve noticed that a lot of them had now missing executables. Defender removed them without as much as a warning. Rummaging through some other directories, I’ve noticed that some of my late father’s files are gone from his personal directory (from when we shared my PC on occasion). It included some silly stuff like the Terrorists’ Handbook. But wait, there’s more.
Mainly for me it’s compatibility. Discord, MW3, networking between my main PC and HTPC. Online gaming with friends. Full steam support.
These just work under Linux perfectly fine. Except for maybe MW3. The fotm shooter sponsored by the genocidal US army. But not sure what you even mean by full Steam support. Steam IS Linux. And I’m using Datcord instead of Discord, to avoid electronJS (Chromium).
I’ve only switched end of August, after trialing another distro on a laptop during the summer to see if I can do studies and work stuff on it (no gaming). Everything worked there out of box. Once I had axed my C$300 copy of windows from my main PC (lol sunk cost fallacy) my distro of choice took a bit more time to set up, but I haven’t had this much fun with tinkering on something since the 90s. And if something doesn’t want to work right away, the answer is usually one search or LLM prompt away. I understand now why “man” is not even included in a lot of distros by default nowadays.
Oh. Maybe I shouldn’t share this but I never paid for a windows product. Even office when it went to 360 I stopped trying to pirate earlier versions and just switched to free open source office tools.
Windows 8 I think got authenticated when it went to 10 and I’ve just been riding that install. Still got my handy USB stick whenever I reinstall.
The shooter game is just a time killer for me. Dopamine memories from better times. The problem with using compatible apps is not all my friends will. Is datcord communicate directly with discord users? We already have a technologic dichotomy with half my friends on iPhone other on Android. Xbox vs Playstation vs pc gaming. It’s tough to get people on the same page.
I have an old pc running windows 10, it would be cool if it stops getting updates. Makes for a nice offline pc to get some old apps and games running in the future.
My steam deck has taught me that I’ll be completely OK running linuxn(probably arch) as my daily driver with a win 11 dual boot (maybe just a vm?) for things that simply won’t work on proton.
I’ve been daily driving Endeavour OS for a few months now and it’s great. It’s Arch based so there is a learning curve but it’s worth getting over the hump.
I’m in a similar boat. There have been some setbacks, but I’ve been planning a desktop build to replace my gaming laptop from 2015 for a long while now. SteamOS has given me the confidence to commit to an AMD build with a Linux OS. I’ve been on the fence between a few distro options though. Maybe mint, maybe Nobara, there have been a few others.
Is it going to be able to run decent games? I’m curious about support for GPUs. I guess VR won’t be a thing for a while.
VR “works”, but as someone who uses it, I can’t reccomend it for now.
Compatibility is wildly different between headsets. And no matter which route you take, you will need to tinker and troubleshoot. There is no plug and play solution right now.
If you want to plug in your VR headset, and just play some games, stick to Windows for now. If you’re fine tinkering around, there’s always SteamVR, but also check out Envision and Monado.
As for desktop games, you can find what works on ProtonDB. Most games work fine, with the exception of games with kernel level anti-cheat.
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/18A4-1E10-8A94-3DDA
Can confirm VR works!
Give Bazzite a try if you like Steam OS
SteamOS is not the same as its base Arch Linux. If you want something slightly easier but still Arch-based, try EndeavourOS (but please not Manjaro).
If you have the time, try switching on your own terms within the next year. It’s almost guaranteed you’ll run into issues, but trying to dual-boot now rather than later gives you all the time you need to figure it out before MS forces you on Windows 11.
Genuine question, what are your criticisms of Manjaro? I’ve been on it since about 2019, and haven’t had any major complaints.
For me, it feels like the best mix of features I’ve found so far. Pacman, AUR, very up-to-date repos, and Archwiki, without a lot of the major PITA manual labor I experienced with Arch. No shade on Arch, I just don’t have time in my life to constantly be tinkering and fixing basic stuff I want to just work.
Curious why some people recommend against Manjaro now.
Manjaro as a project is amateur hour, over and over again. Their practice of holding back packages is bad, causing many version conflict problems. Their software DDOSing repos is bad, they can try to pass the blame to pamac, but they are the ones shipping it. Their repeated inability to keep certificates updated is bad.
EndeavourOS should be recommended over Manjaro every time.
Interesting, I’ll give it a shot on my next rig. Looks like it came out after I’d already gotten comfy with Manjaro.
Can’t say with my use case I’ve run into any of those issues, though the cert stuff sounds kinda gnarly, especially to happen more than once.
It’s hard to argue against “ain’t broke why fix”, and frankly, I’m surprised your install has lasted so long without going sideways heh. If you avoid the AUR that’s probably helped. And I actually do believe manjaro has improved in the last year or two - it’s just difficult to recommend while endeavour and archinstall exist.
Fortunately this won’t be my first dance with dual booting Linux, I’ve tried it a half dozen times since the late 90s, going as far back as multibooting booting slackware, nt4 and win98. I’m sure I’ll go through a few distros before settling on one that works for me. I’ve also got 6 drives in my pc (2 nvme, 2 sata ssd and 2 HDD) so I have lots of room to play. One major thing for me is HDR support which is pretty new in Linux so I’m not sure where we stand on that.
You may want to try Arch in a vm before daily driving it. It’s an excellent distro, but vanilla Arch is a far cry from SteamOS.
Do not use Arch as a daily driver if you are a beginner.
Despite what some people will try to claim, Arch is not stable.
We have all heard this song before and know how it ends.
Yeah. A lot of people loudly declaring that they’re switching to Linux, followed by them staying with Windows anyway.
A better use case for linux desktop could not have been invented.
Thought about it… but drivers are hell…
I have installed Linux on a dozen computers from crummy laptops to custom build with graphics card. Most went fine. For the graphics card one, I installed popos to avoid learning about internals , but I could have spent time to solve it, I was lazy.
But I recommend having several distros on usb to do tests . That way things are easiest. Some installs have default settings that work best for random computers. So just spend a few minutes on each to test sound, WiFi and graphics. 5 minutes on each to test 10 flavors
No need to mess with any text settings at all these days… I mean, you can
Are they?
Nope I haven’t had trouble with drivers in a while. Printers are still probably thr worst but not bad.
These days IPP Print Everywhere support makes driverless printing easy
Just buy a brother laser printer with a USB port.
That’s what I have, except networked. . Works fine. Just meant out of all the things, printers are still the hardest
Can confirm. Works on every distro I’ve tried.
You just download them, like with windows?
If you’ve never downloaded drivers manually it’s super easy these days. You’ll get a tool from the device manufacturer that checks your hardware and system and automatically installs the correct driver with computer restarts at the correct places. You just press the go button.
That said most default drivers are open source and included in Linux, so you should be able to get by without downloading anything unless you need the latest manufacturer driver.
I never had to download drivers on linux but most manufacture driver install softwares are always for Windows. Except for like AMD
Does that count also for graphic cards?
AMD for sure, with NVIDIA your mileage may vary. I’d go check their site but I’d be very surprised if they were behind the times on driver update tools. The drivers can make a huge difference in games so usually they’re on top of that.
So heres the Thing. My graphic card is from AMD
You’ll not have to download anything then, AMD drivers are baked in. You’ll literally be able to boot your OS for the first time, install a game and it’ll get full performance off the bat
This is AMDs page. Honestly I have more faith in AMD than NVIDIA these days.
Hm. Gonna dig a bit into that
Old hardware is usually very well supported.
Just don’t recommend Linux people with Nvidia hybrid graphics, though.
Exactly the issue I had on my laptop. Plug in an external display to extend the desktop and the laptop screen turns off. Wasted 6 hours of my life trying to get the damn thing to work properly until I gave up.
Only 6 hours
I’ve been changing colors and and textures in my desktop for longer spans of time
And playing CK2
Still, those are at least pleasant.
Not to dog pile, but unless it’s some niche hardware drivers are the last thing that springs to mind on my Linux boxes.
I will say the Linux volunteers have a slight blind spot for creative workflows.
You usually don’t need to download drivers in Linux, unless you want to use some really special hardware
I’ve been using Linux at home for a decade now and have never needed to install a driver.
