TLDR:
Windows 11 v24H2 and beyond will have Recall installed on every system. Attempting to remove Recall will now break some file explorer features such as tabs.
YT Video (5min)
What’s an alternative to explorer?
Unfortunately, just switch to Linux is not an option.
Wow this is doesn’t affect me at all thank fully
Based on the comments here you’d think Copilot+ PC’s are actually a popular thing. Nobody here has a PC that will run Recall. Essentially nobody has a Copilot+ PC at the moment.
Side note: Recall isn’t the boogeyman it’s being made out to be.
What the actual fuck, microsoft?
“We’re entitled to everything to do, every scrap of data, everything you create, so we can feed our AI to make even more money, because you are
making the mistake ofusing our product. If someone does hack our systems and steals all your data, who fucking cares? You aren’t me. I still get paid.”-Microsuck execs.
🤑 Marketing for the marketing god! Data for the data throne!
Warhammer was close, but the grim dark was way off
grim
darkdankI’m just waiting for the grimdrip. I need new styles.
Can’t wait for those plasteel chinos.
What happens if you copy explorer.exe from a prior release of Windows and replace the recall-infested version?
At that point why bother? Either accept it and move on, or axe the partition and start browsing forums full of furry pfp gentleanimals advising you on how to fix your latest issue with your new linux installation.
I know you’re mixing in joking with your response, but can I point out the irony that a Linux advocate is telling me essentially “don’t try to hack a solution, just give it up entirely and adopt a completely different product”. That is the opposite of the Linux mindset I’m familiar with.
It’s because Linux isn’t actually trying to work against you, even if it may feel that way to a noobie at first. Guaranteed this requirement exists to make Recall impossible to uninstall, and for no other reason.
The question isn’t “why take the time to hack windows” it’s “why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
It’s because Linux isn’t actually trying to work against you, even if it may feel that way to a noobie at first.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”. I don’t believe that is the case either. Linux works for itself, and if what you want can be done with Linux, great! If you have the skills to alter Linux to do what you want, also great! If you have neither of those, then you’ll be left without a specific solution. Linux is great, but trying to pitch it as purely altruistic and supportive isn’t accurate and could lead those trying it to abandon it early because their own experience doesn’t meet this implicit expectation.
The question isn’t “why take the time to hack windows” it’s “why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want? Because that was one of the basic tenets underlying Linux. There is no perfect operating system, just different tradeoffs. If one OS meets most of your needs for a specific task, and you have a way to hack it to fix the rest, thats the better solution rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. Departing from this idea moves the definition of computing from a tool to a religion/social movement. That’s fine for some, but not my calling.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”.
That’s literally not what I said, nor what I implied. If you want to interpret it that way it’s your choice, but I’m not going to defend a statement I didn’t make and didn’t try to make.
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
I feel like you aren’t distinguishing between “problem exists” and “problem exists because the makers of my OS want it to exist.”
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want?
I literally said this was NOT the question.
I’m not trying to strawman you here, so lets revisit these to make sure we understand what each other is saying.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”.
That’s literally not what I said, nor what I implied. If you want to interpret it that way it’s your choice, but I’m not going to defend a statement I didn’t make and didn’t try to make.
I don’t understand why you’d bring up “trying to work against you” if you weren’t implying that Linux was the opposite. I suggested you were implying it was the opposite, and you’re communicating now that is not what you mean. I don’t think you’re suggesting that Linux “is trying to work against you”. So if its not a positive, and not a negative, you’re suggesting what…neutral? As in, “Linux is neither trying to work against you nor is trying to help you”. I suppose I can agree with that, but I’m not sure how that supports your argument.
What am I missing you are trying to communicate with your statement?
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
I feel like you aren’t distinguishing between “problem exists” and “problem exists because the makers of my OS want it to exist.”
You’re right, I’m not distinguishing between them because as an end user the reason is irrelevant. I’m left with the same result, with the same choices about how to solve it for myself. I’m not trying to save the world. I’m trying to get my computing done.
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want? I literally said this was NOT the question.
My apologies for the paraprhasing of your position of my position.
Lets look at your exact question:
“why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
My answer: Because I’m not trying to save the world. I’m trying to get my computing done. If a hack to the existing product can do that faster than changing the world, then the hack is the better choice FOR ME. If its a social/religious movement for you, feel free to spread the “good word”. I won’t stop you, but I’m not interested in joining your evangelistic endeavor.
Man, if “Microsoft is actively trying to take control of my hardware and prevent me from deciding how it is used” and “Linux has a learning curve and lacks market dominance to get hardware manufacturers to play with them sometimes” seem like equivalent circumstances to you, there is no number of iterations to this back and forth that are going to arrive at any common ground between you and I. I can only say good day to you.
Guaranteed this requirement exists to make Recall impossible to uninstall, and for no other reason.
Or maybe it’s so you can use it in search box in explorer.exe
Incompatible DLLs most likely.
I love winutil. Makes debloating windows a lot easier.
Does it remove recall?
Installs Debian.
Oh my fucking god.
If I still knew anyone who uses Windows I would be laughing at them.
Wow you must not be very social. Windows is the most used OS by a long shot.
You are correct, I am not very social.
How did you not know about the “Windows 7 mode” in 8 by the time of release? Wasn’t that sorted out in the preview builds?
We got dogfed (dogfooded?) the preview builds.
At some point, one preview was considered ‘good enough’ that basically everyone at MSFT was forced to switch over to it.
Backlash from MSFTs own employees who were forced to use the pre Windows 7 mode version is a huge reason why they ‘sorted it out’.
EDIT: If you don’t know… and maybe they don’t still do this, but I seriously doubt it, MSFT does what they call dogfooding. Most new software versions are released internally to MSFT employees before it goes public, so that they can functionally beta test everything.
Usually it just causes some work loss in minor ways, but with certain widely used or critical software, it can blow up entire projects and workflows for a while.
how the fuck do you even begin making recall a dependency for explorer?
I won’t upgrade past 10 anyways and if I can’t run 10, back to Linux I go.
You’ve got until late 2025 before 10 stops receiving security updates. I would not stay long after that.
I will be SO glad when my Windows 10 stops getting forced updates.
Well, yes, but no
But yes, Im pretty sure my little server I use explicitly for jellyfin will be fine
But yes, Im pretty sure my little server I use explicitly for jellyfin will be fine
I’m not sure why you wouldn’t use Linux for that. You can make some arguments against Linux on the desktop (although I don’t agree) but Linux as a server has been clearly superior for a long time.
Why would I use Linux for something that doesn’t require it?
Because it will run jellyfin, with fewer system resources, and still get security updates (that you can configure to auto install at the correct time) for … free.
You also won’t at some point find yourself running such an old version of Windows that jellyfin no longer updates unless you buy the latest version of Windows.
You can just go download Ubuntu desktop LTS and do everything by just opening a terminal, plopping that one liner, and letting it run: https://jellyfin.org/docs/general/installation/linux/#repository-automatic
I’ll flip the script and ask “why in the world would you use Windows for something that doesn’t require it?”
Ahahaha, holly fucking shit.
They literally added some OS in their spyware.
Fuuuuuck…well…my laptop was my last windows device. It came with 11 installed, and the only reason I keep using 11 is because I have had no success in running my DAW in wine. Guess it’s time to give it a go again…
If DAW means Digital Audio Workstation, have you tried Ardour?
I’ve been using Fruityloops for over 20 years. I’ve tried loads of stuff, but my workflow is pretty stuck in the FL ecosystem. I haven’t tried Ardour yet, definitely willing to give it a go, but when I’m in the mood to punch something out really quick, I already know all the keybinds, how things interact etc etc. I’ve started using Sunvox a bit. It’s a modular synth/tracker runs one everything shy of an actual potato…I think doom is the only thing I know about that runs on more systems than Sunvox. But it’s painful when I want to just diddle something quick that’s stuck in my head.
Depending on how long ago that was, you may have a much better experience. Linux now has a new audio subsystem that is low latency, and generally just works out of the box with DAW’s now.
FL studio is known to work well in wine, but third party VSTs can be hit or miss.
FL studio has “worked well in wine” for ages now, I’ve never managed to get it properly functioning. Like I said, I’ll give it another try, not willing to have recall running on my machines.
Fl does work with wine, I have used versions of it in the past quite flawlessly. There is an easy one click installer in the bottles interface for FL, give it a try!
EDIT: I say prior versions because I have since switched to bitwig, such a cool process flow!
Like I replied to someone else FL has been “running well in wine” for ages now. I’ve just never managed to get it functioning at all, like I wasn’t having audio issues or anything…because the one click wouldn’t work for me, and manually setting it never worked for me either. It’s been about 2 years now since I tried, and this recall bullshit means that if I can’t get it running I’ll just switch to something else and change my workflow.
I hope every SWE looks at this and remembers how not to conduct oneself.
I doubt it’s the engineers who are demanding that this atrocity exist.
The issue is that people who find an issue with it and don’t want to do it will get told off by management. Then management just replaces them with someone who is willing to do it (for job safety, or simply because they don’t care)
Thats just how big tech is
And it’s why I, as a self-respecting SWE, refuse to apply to big tech jobs. Yeah, I could get paid a lot more, but it’s not worth it for the work culture. My current org seems to respect my opinions and values, and that’s worth a lot more than money.
Good for you! I’m still waiting for the day the tech world unionizes and push back on the recent horrendous decisions
There’s some moral responsibility though. When it comes to privacy though, the majority is too naive
Yes and no. In a perfect world, people would be able to uphold their ethics. Unfortunately, in the real world, people don’t have that luxury. A job is their lifeline to basic necessities, and sacrificing their job might mean going to debt for many. Especially if you are young and without many options due to the lower level pullback in the tech sphere.
Just like systemd became a dependency for stuff that never needed it in the first place…
I guess you were downvoted because Recall is a closed-source privacy nightmare, and systemd, for all its flaws, is open source.
Does it relate to your statement? No. But people will take pitchforks if you compare the two, I fancy.
I fancy
I’m not saying you aren’t fancy, but grab a pitchfork and start fencing with it!!
(But yes, I was a bit confused by downvotes too but your explanation makes sense - which is weird bcs now that I understand it as such I’m def in the pitchfork crowd, even if I think we should be either way more lenient or give waaay more funding for the open sauce peeps providing us the rescue we don’t deserve)
Comparing systemd to recall is like comparing apples to gauges of guitar strings.
I was comparing the approach, not the products.
The context matters, doesn’t it? Like it or not, systemd is essential for moderns Linux systems by design, it’s necessary for them to work. You can’t say the same about recall. Comparing the approach without comparing the products is unfair.
systemd is essential for moderns Linux systems
And yet moderm linux systems existed prior to systemd, as modern windows exited without recall… Yes i can say the same. You can run linux without systemd (ask Gentoo, Devuan, Slackware and others) and you can run windows without recall. The dependency is forced and artificial.
It’s almost as if standardization under Systemd can be beneficial. Still, I’m not a fan of the monolithic approach.
This is absolutely insane
My condolences to all Windows 11 users.It’s becoming common knowledge that:
- It’s not a matter of if but when is xyz service/application will be breached and what are the potential damagaes could it cause to me and others?
"I assume every online service is not if but when is it going to be breached? Right? So I operate under that assumption, that everything is going to be breached at some point. And so that’s why Recall was so scary to me where it’s like, I don’t care how secure they say it is, like you look at Spectre and Meltdown no one thought these things were going to affect millions of CPUs and here we are, right?
- Steve from Gamers Nexus
[Level1Techs] Microsoft Is KILLING Windows | ft. Steve @GamersNexus
I guess I just have to keep Windows 10 with a custom group policy that disables all updates either forever or until I learn Linux.
Linux gaming is getting to the point that I could consider the switch, but I hear scary stories about Nvidia drivers.
Worst thing is you may have to learn downgrade commands on PopOS if a game breaks with driver updates.
I made the switch with my old 1080ti the newer GPUs work even better and mine has given me almost 0 issues with Linux mint. It’s worth the dive. Mint also “just works” so it’s super easy to get into from Windows.
I had no issues with Nvidia. PopOs has support for Nvidia on install…I used it and it worked
I had minor issues when I first installed, but I worked them all out.
Install and give it a week. Seven days. If you can’t get it all figured out by then head back to windows. If you can figure it out, you probably won’t go back.
Running EndeavourOS with Nvidia on Wayland for some months now. Prior to 555 it was a bit janky at times. Since then, and now with 560, the only issue I’m having is related to sleep/hibernation mode. Game wise everything runs fine.
I have a GTX 1080 and I’ve been gaming on Linux for over a year now. No issues. Only thing that you cant do is some of the new generation window managers (wayland) but even that is working well in the nvidia drivers that arent on stable yet. In any case, the previous generations window managers work great and if wayland doesnt work properly for you, you can just as easily do without it.
Point is, its worth it to make the switch. I set my partner up with Linux Mint when their machine didnt qualify for windows updates anymore and they’ve had no problems, games and all. And they would never touch the command line.
Would recommend
Yep same with PoPOS. Great little distro. It’s been my daily driver for years now.
hey GTX1080 user! Have you been able to get any games running with RTX? I picked mine up used a while back, and I kinda stopped PC gaming ages ago, but it’d be nice to use these features if I could. I haven’t been able to get RTX Portal or RTX Quake 2 to work right via Steam, so i figured the card/drivers just can’t handle it and I should just play vanilla DOOM instead.
My understanding is the 1080 predated the RTX stuff by a generation, even when I was on Windows I don’t think the Nvidia drivers for the 1080 supported RTX well, if at all
Correct.
I still have a 1080Ti in one machine and it definitely does not support RTX of any stripe, on any OS.
I use Garuda and NVIDIA gives me no troubles
You can run Windows in virtual machine, you know.
It would be the best if you could have dedicated GPU for it, to be able to run games with nearly 100% performance.
Try a Live USB and find out for yourself if your distro of choice plays nice with your rig. You could have your answer in an hour or so of following YouTube tutorials.
If you have a new NVIDIA GPU (Tuner+), you can use the new open kernel module. If you have older ones, I guess you’re stuck with the proprietary or bad unofficial open source ones. The open kernel module works good and gets the job done. No need to be afraid of it. I get over 1000fps in (optimized) minecraft with shaders. I couldn’t do that in windows.
Which GPU do you have? I’m looking for an upgrade and those framerates make me drool.
GeForce RTX 4070 Mobile
Turing +, not tuner +
done
It may have been the case in the past but Ive used both the GTX 680 and RTX 3060 on Fedora with no issue whatsoever. I have veen using the nvidia peoprietary drivers and they work well.
I guess it depends on what you do, but as an awerage user - not really much to learn in terms of Linux. No special knowledge needed to use it like a normal person. I had to reformat some drives so Linux can use them and learning about Heroic games launcher, Lutris and Bottles to run non-steam games and windows software amd learn about compatibility layer built into Steam.
Otherwise it just works. Using Linux Mint. Didn’t boot to Windows pretty much since I installed it - there was no need.
Nvidia drivers are the reason I end up going back to windows every time. Once installed they work fine, but installation and updating were always fraught with issues, and would inevitably break and piss me off to the point I gave up and went back to windows.
Haven’t tried since I got my amd card, but maybe Nvidia Linux drivers are less terrible than they had been.
Nvidia drivers are mostly OK now.
EndeavourOS (Arch-based) works fantastic with latest Nvidia drivers, for me
Including for sleep and hibernate? Those are what I’ve run into issues with with EndeavourOS and Garuda with my NVIDIA gpu
As others have already pointed out Nvidia drivers aren’t that bad. The only game I’ve had issues with is Star Wars Outlaws, but I think that has more to do with the game itself than Nvidia drivers (It’s not exactly a stable experience on Windows either).
The only big thing holding Linux gaming back is anti-cheat, but that’s mostly because AAA developers don’t want to allow anti-cheat on Linux. It’s worth checking out if your favorite online game can be played on Linux.
I’ve had no significant driver issues with Mint and a 2080, myself. I switched back in February, and most things – games included – just work. The few that didn’t, were easy to fix with some searching on stackoverflow and reddit (about the only thing that site is good for now).
if an idiot like me can do it, so can you.
Glad I moved away from Windows on all my personal computers. Fedora with Plasma is so similar to Windows and so much better. If my non-tech partner can use it, then anyone can.
Only problem is that Windows is better at resizing content on high resolution (4K) monitors. And ordering multiple monitors on the login screen doesn’t always work right, but it’s fine once logged in. And it takes a bit more to set up than preinstalled Windows that’s on most computers when you buy them. But if it was preinstalled and set up already for the hardware like Windows usually is, it would be way better for nearly everyone.
I’m not sure how it works for KDE and sddm but on gdm it is possible to copy the monitors.xml config file to a certain directory to fix that. After doing so, the login and lock screen settings are synced between the desktop environment and display manager. Not sure how to do it for sddm but I’m sure there’s a way, maybe a script with the correct xrandr commands could solve that.
Edit: monitors.xml, not x11.conf
Yeah, that works sometimes, but the way to fix it seems to change every time I have had to do it. And I have been using Wayland lately and haven’t found a good way to do it that works with the latest versions.
I was curious about this and found this KDE forum post that might help. Looks like you don’t even need a script.
