IDF: Whoops, tee hee.
Whoa. Hey guys. New war crime just dropped.
But muh false equivalency.
I’d argue the pager explosions were just a different form factor of carpet bombing
Terrorism is bad and we should condemn it. Unless it’s done by the United States in which case we should call it “anti -communism or defending democracy”. Or if it’s done by Israel we can call it “self-defense”.
Whatever Israel is doing can just be added to the United States. In the end, Israel is just the guard dog “defending democracy” in the Middle East. A somewhat rabid guard dog, but still owned and fed by the US.
I mean, not every individual has a pager on them necessarily. Not that it’s excused either way
Way to completely miss the point. Nobody is suggesting they use pagers in Gaza.
quick question: anyone doubt carpet bombing germany in ww2 was wrong? doubt it.
The residents of Dresden, perhaps ?
So it goes.
if the bots here could read…
25000 noncombattants lost their lives needlessly and that’s not wrong to you?
no. or how would you have solved that hitler thing back then? freeze the war, keep KZs open?
Maybe attack military installations. Win the German population to your side?
Ooh boy, now that’s a take and a half. Win over the population of Nazi Germany on behalf of the invading force?
Better than bombing them.
This is more like carpet bombing England during WW2
Yes, it was wrong.
no.
No, carpet bombing civilians isn’t wrong? Wow shit take.
what was your suggestion on stopping hitler?
On the battlefield and by winning the hearts and minds of the germans?
Didn’t have precision munitions back then. Didn’t have drones that can monitor the battlefield from across the globe and provide real-time video feeds.
Besides, in this case, Israel is playing Germany’s role.
so wrong on so many levels. but maybe we should ask the lgbtq spokesperson of hamas. ah, shit…there aint one because…
I’m trans. Doesn’t mean I want everyone who dislikes me to die. Wtf kind of twisted logic is that?
no it means the previous argument was bullshit because fights for human rights for people who fight against human rights is retarded beyond belief. wtf of twisted logic to support the killer as long as you are not getting killed. geez, you are sick.
I think I somewhat misunderstood you previous argument. As the original argument of the post-chain was the comparison of the Allies carpetbombing Germany (resulting in civilian casualties), and the attacks by Israel (which has also resulted in civilian casualties). I understood your post as justifying the civilian casualties behind their beliefs.
While I do not agree with your thought that people who fight against human-rights have their rights revoked. I can at least to some degree understand your point of view. It is my opinion murder should be an absolute last resort, and only in cases where a crime has been committed and no other options are available.
On the point of civilian deaths resulting from any attack (be it the Allies, Israel, Hamas or other). I don’t find it acceptable in any way. And that is why I used the words “twisted logic”. I understood your stance as anyone who thinks differently regarding LGBTQ-rights regardless of any crimes commited should be killed. Which I harshly disagree with.
But you’re literally supporting a killer as long as you’re not getting killed??? Can you not see the irony?
dont you understand selfdefense, right and wrong? did you go to school…like ever? hamas and hizbulla want to eradicate israel. theres not much to discuss.
Yes, I went to school where we learned history. WHY do Hamas and Hezbola want to eradicate israel? What about the civilians? Do you know what self defense is? Do you see how silly an argument it is when “their side” says the same thing about their actions?
So they deserve genocide?
so they are distancing themselves fro hamas, even start attacks against the hamas terrorists? i havent heard of that. so they have the right to make cover for terrorism against israel? fuck anyone who ever supported Hamas or Hizbullah as much as fuck anyone who supported hitler or stalin etc.
Also, I want you to try this thought expect. Picture yourself in Gaza, for generations, one side has been negatively affecting your way of life. Imposing checkpoints, treating you like less than human. That side has now destroyed your schools, and hospitals, and mosques, family, and everything you hold dear. The otherside, while still horrible, generally leaves you alone to live your life. Why would you fight the side that generally leaves you be? Why would you not look at the other side as an enemy? This division is by design.
also i want you to try this thought experiment: you are german, all your folks killed jews, roma, sinta, red heads etc and the population just keeps on supporting the cause. and at some point the rest of the world is done with their shit and carpet bomb them. btw i am german. and we still have way to many nazis here.
Ah, ok so genocide all around then. That’s sounds an awful lot like a final solution to your problem to me
Cool, what about the people that support the innocent civilians? Because that’s who I support. Ya know the ones who don’t deserve it? Like the innocent people in Gaza, or the west Bank, or Lebanon, or Israel. What about them?
enlighten me on the innocent germans in WW2? No D-day you say?
Yes, the huge population of noncombattant Germans on the beaches on d-day, how could I forget that segment. Oh wait! Hitler had armies there, how silly of you.
Add netenyahu to that list if you’re going to act like you want to play fair.
absolutely. hate him.
It’s war
So they deserve genocide?
In war, civilians lose.
They don’t have to.
But how would they arbitrarily punish everyone without carpet bombing? It’s not like everyone has a pager.
If you pull the thread enough there won’t be any sweatshirt left. Chill bro.
Watch me unravel, I’ll soon be naked
Room had too be made. Same as what’s happening in the West Bank right now. The Lebenon isn’t an expansion target.
None of this should be a surprise to anyone.
kill individual fighters
They killed like 1 fighter in exchange for wounding a thousand civilians, including at least one little girl who died. The pager shit is every bit as indiscriminate as the bombing.
No, it’s not. This was a very tactical way of striking an enemy that hides behind women and children.
So would Netanyahu also be considered as hiding behind women and children? He’s out in public, traveling and lives in Tel Aviv.
This was a very tactical
Flinging a hand grenade into a crowd several thousand times over
But it’s okay because the crowd was full of Arabs aka Terrorists
There’s a big difference between dropping bombs and small pagers exploding. I watched a lot of those videos, and almost no one except the targets were injured.
It’s really sad that anyone else got injured at all, but damn, I’m glad they were able to be so destructive without injuring the thousands upon thousands that have been dying up until now. Or are you just upset that you can’t claim genocide for this attack?
1000 civilians had pagers sold to Hezbollah? Odd.
Hezbollah isn’t just a military organization. It’s a political party. The majority of those pagers were in civilian hands when they detonated.
Can you confidently say you know the exact chain of custody of your cell phone?
Some killer gets a pager he doesn’t need, sells it to someone to make some cash, who gives it to their kid. Annnnd boom.
No. Can you? How does OP know this about 1000 civilians? Don’t get me wrong. Fuck the Israeli government and it’s indiscriminate murder, but also fuck the lies. Speak truth.
Since you’re changing topics from “how could kids get pagers meant for someone else”…
In war, everyone lies. But one thing I’ve found as an American is that, if you’re killing in another country, you’re probably the worse of the two.
I buy mine offline so I’ll can for sure say, I’ve no fucking idea
i think they killed like, 12 people, and injured somewhere between 1-2 thousand more, probably some civilians in there, but these are military pagers to my knowledge so it’d be weird for it to hurt a bunch of random people, but it’s possible.
if you include the radio attack i think it’s like another 40 dead, and like 500 injured? Don’t quote me on it.
these are military pagers
They were a shipment for general consumption that went to a dealer near the Iranian embassy.
The target was the Iranian ambassador to Lebanon, and virtually everyone else was just collateral damage.
They were a shipment for general consumption that went to a dealer near the Iranian embassy.
yeah, that’s generally how products work. Even in the US military the government just walks up to a company and goes "can you make this? And if they say yes they pay them money, or times of war just go “hey i need you to make this”
the only difference here is that it’s not quite a formally established military, so it’s using off the shelf components and products, which is pretty common for these smaller groups.
although depending on the dealer, that dealer may have been the source of intrusion, so there’s that.
The target was the Iranian ambassador to Lebanon, and virtually everyone else was just collateral damage.
targeting one specific guy through the most broad means possible seems, weird. I doubt this was a highly specific attack. It would be a very, very odd way to do it, but then again this conflict has been nothing but odd, so i can’t really put it past them lol.
Regardless, i doubt they solely intended to target that one guy. While everyone else is technically collateral, it’s probably considered to be beneficial to the cause. At least by israel.
targeting one specific guy through the most broad means possible seems, weird.
Not that weird, in the history of espionage. As another example, the CIA used a vaccine drive in Pakistan to target Osama bin Laden’s hideout.
Regardless, i doubt they solely intended to target that one guy.
When your government believes neighboring ethnicities are “bug people” who need to be exterminated, collateral damage is viewed as a perk.
Right now the plan is to start assassinating everyone that got maimed for being related to zbowla
This says 37 dead, of whom Hezbollah have stated 31 were their fighters.
That’s a pretty clean ratio actually, considering the nature of Hesbollah.
Yeah. Two civilians dead for every one militant is fairly typical for asymmetric warfare.
Where are you getting those numbers?
Vague memory, but on looking it up, it’s even worse
I’m sure that’s true in general, but given the pagers and radios were being either held or worn by the target, I’d say this attack would have been much better.
sounds about right with what i’ve heard from other places.
Hezbollah is a political party with 18 parliamentary seats and thousands of public service workers on their payroll.
Saying these were “fighters” is akin to bombing an UNRWA center and claiming you killed 31 Hamas Terrorists.
so then why did they have pagers? I thought the pagers were specifically for millitant orders, or is the whole political party communicating in private via one way pagers?
i feel like if this were public service, this would be in confidence, in a building for example, rather than like this.
so then why did they have pagers?
To receive messages through an underdeveloped telecommunications infrastructure.
i feel like if this were public service, this would be in confidence
Well, if you feel that way, I guess the mass murder was fine.
To receive messages through an underdeveloped telecommunications infrastructure.
obviously. It seems more akin to hamas than like, the green party in the US for example though. I wouldn’t be surprised if the primary purpose of the pagers was for military communications. I would expect any sort of political meetings to be done through a scheduled period, i could see notifications going out for these things. But that’s about it.
also, from what i’ve heard, they had phones previously, and recently got rid of them for the usage of these pagers, since the phones were probably bugged, with israeli intelligence anyway.
Well, if you feel that way, I guess the mass murder was fine.
also i’m not sure this semantically counts as a “mass murder” usually those are done directly by an individual, on a group of people immediately in front of them. Maybe it could apply to this, but that seems like a stretch, especially considering this killed like 50 people total, which is a lot, but considering the amount of injuries and spicy pagers, that’s not very effective.
Would the US pullout of afghan that killed like 13 members of the military also count as mass murder? That’s more than a few, and probably more collective than this event.
It’s underdeveloped because a terrorist organization fought a war to control the telecommunications system so they could leverage it more effectively for more terrorism.
Last I saw was 37 dead to over 3000 injuries
yeah that’s what wikipedia is saying. I’m unsure if this includes the radio attacks also though.
Hezbollah was using commercial grade pagers because they’re a militia. The purpose of pagers are to contact them when their off duty. Many of these pagers blew up in homes, grocery stores, and other public places. Many civilians were killed and most people injured were bystanders.
from what i can recall, and from the stats i’ve seen, these “explosions” seem more like “really bad pocket fires” more than anything to me, i could see it injuring people. Maybe two or three standing immediately nearby other people.
But considering this attack has only like 12 confirmed dead civilians or something, “many” seems a little excessive. I could see a few hundred getting injured though. Possibly a few cars/homes burning down. That might cause a few more.
ok so, did a bit of a check here, 12 civilians died. That’s where that number came from. 40 people died total, i think. At least that’s what wikipedia tells me. I don’t think it ever mentions how many civilians were injured directly, but assuming it follows the deaths, it’s somewhere between probably 500 and 1000 i would guess.
from what i can recall, and from the stats i’ve seen,
From what you can recall? I’m sorry, but I watched some of those videos, and I will not forget them. I cannot imagine what it must have been like to just be shopping in a supermarket when the person next to you has their legs suddenly blown off 3 feet from you.
It’s terrorism, plain and simple.
only 12 civilians
Yeah dude. “Only.”’ You’re right though, I guess Israel really has raised the bar when it comes to indiscriminate murder of civilians. Those are rookie numbers.
You really should look up the definition of terrorism some time. If Hamas were the primary target, it’s not.
From what you can recall? I’m sorry, but I watched some of those videos, and I will not forget them. I cannot imagine what it must have been like to just be shopping in a supermarket when the person next to you has their legs suddenly blown off 3 feet from you.
this is relatively recent, and i barely care about the IP conflict at large, let alone some millitia in fucking lebanon. All i know is that pagers fucking exploded lmao.
As for the videos, i haven’t watched them, for what i feel like should be pretty obvious reasons. I don’t just watch gore content for fun or anything. I’m not a military analyst or claiming to be one lol. I’m just some dude on the internet who thinks exploding pagers is a rather odd way to go about things, although theoretically practical (as seen by the fact that they did it)
It’s terrorism, plain and simple.
maybe, again i know nothing about hezbollah, less about their goals, and even less about what their role in this conflict has been, other than a relatively minor altercation in some of the recent events.
Yeah dude. “Only.”’ You’re right though, I guess Israel really has raised the bar when it comes to indiscriminate murder of civilians. Those are rookie numbers.
how would you prefer i format it lmao? It’s the fucking english language, it’s semantically correct and provides all the needed context, 12 civilians died in this attack, that’s it. No more, no less, plain and simple. Especially compared to the sheer amounts of injured people, presumably including a lot of civilians, this would be EVEN more appropriate.
Also, there have been single mass shootings that have killed more people. There have most certainly been thousands of accidents (think infra related, cars, trains, etc) that have killed more people, and almost definitely, many many more individual accidental deaths.
12 people is not a whole lot in the total grand scheme of how many people die for reasons that shouldn’t really happen in the first place, it’s a lot of people that die every year. Also yeah wouldn’t these literally be rookie numbers? Seems a bit redundant to me.
this is relatively recent, and i barely care about the IP conflict at large, let alone some millitia in fucking lebanon. All i know is that pagers fucking exploded lmao.
why are you deciding to weigh in on a topic that you’re not invested in and don’t even claim to know anything about?
Yeah dude. “Only.”’ You’re right though, I guess Israel really has raised the bar when it comes to indiscriminate murder of civilians. Those are rookie numbers.
When your enemy disperses themselves among the civilian population?
This killed way less civilians than a traditional bombing that would have got the same Hezbollah fighters would have.
When your enemy disperses themselves among the civilian population?
Obviously, bomb the grocery stores and the shopping malls, then blame the people you were targeting for the collateral murder.
FFS, I’m old enough to remember when Obama drone striking a teenage boy was considered at least mildly controversial for liberals. Now cluster bombing a flea market is the new gold standard for Ethical Warfare.
Now cluster bombing a flea market is the new gold standard for Ethical Warfare.
so technically, and semantically, it’s not cluster bombing, it’s a highly distributed form of micro bombing. Similar to the idea of “incendiary explosive laden bats” in ww2, and various other crackhead ideas the US military cooked up.
It’s funny how Israel made it a “normal” thing, to use firearms and explosives around civilians for the purpose of getting rid of, what they call, bad guys.
Imagine mass-shooting in a public school where a kid tries to hunt down other kids who bullied him for the past few years. Oh wait…
It’s funny how Israel made it a “normal” thing, to use firearms and explosives around civilians for the purpose of getting rid of, what they call, bad guys.
i don’t think they did normalize it though, russia has been indiscriminately hitting civilian places with artillery shells since the beginning of the invasion.
the soviet union has an even more aggressive history of this, scorched earth policies and such, which are almost definitely very old.
Imagine mass-shooting in a public school where a kid tries to hunt down other kids who bullied him for the past few years. Oh wait…
yet another example, except i don’t even have to make the point myself!
in fact, i would argue the concept of minimizing human losses in war is a relatively recent advancement in social theory. That hasn’t exactly been a regular consideration throughout most of history, afaik.
There is no accident.
It took them years to prepare that operation. It was against Hezbollah, not Hamas, because they saw them as the bigger threat.
The war in Gazah is barbaric, but the sensible immediate alternative would have been a very targeted operation to find and rescue the hostages, not something like this.
And it required Hezbollah to have no concept of logistic security. Maybe Hamas is not as amateurish as Hezbollah in that regard.
Historically Hamas has been the amateurs and Hezbollah the pros. Hezbollah has actual victories against the IDF. Hamas’ military success last October was completely unprecedented. Its generally believed that Hezbollah trained Hamas into the fighting force it is now. And since Iran trained Hezbollah you get people claiming Hamas is an Iranian puppet.
The idf keep killing their hostages in what seem like very purposeful attempts to do so.
You don’t make an omelet without cracking a fews eggs
Please tell me this is a joke.
Maybe they should have chose to make something other than an omelette then…
less genocide is not an option at this time…
Just wait the carpet bombing will arrive sooner or later.
Mossad: “Making 40,000 pagers full of C4 and then convincing everyone in Gaza that they’re hip in 2024 is not profitable! What are we, Apple?”
Also Mossad: “But what about Lebanon?”
30 points - 1 day ago.
What happened to this site? Do people think this shit is funny?
Crazy, it’s almost like plans improved with time. That’s never been the case ever in history.
This plan has been in motion for over 1.5 years given that is when the shell company was set up. So by your logic, their “plans” should be much improved by now, no?
Almost as if your comment makes no sense in this context.
If your plan is ‘fuck dem civis’ you need another plan
