Microsoft is being sued by a man who feels cheated by the current plans to sunset Windows 10. He makes some good points, but I doubt he’ll win.
Good, fuck ‘em.
Even if he does win, it’s still Windows, still under their control. It’d be maliciously and quite supraliminaly enshittified until it’s unusable. Just slap on a CachyOS or anything else open source
I hope he wins.
Windows peaked with XP. 7 was alright. 8 was a free fall of a downward slide falloff.
Appified overly complicated slop and bloat filled garbage ever since.
They are a monopoly protected by patents. Completely unamerican philosophically.
IDK I liked 7 pretty much as much as I like XP. For me it was 10 that was just alright.
My brother convinced me to switch to 11 when I built my most recent gaming desktop and I somewhat regret listening to him but I know dual booting is a waste of time for me and I’m not quite ready to make the full jump to Linux because my desktop has a 4070 Super. It’ll ahve to wait until my next PC. Fortunately, I don’t have the version of 11 with Recall pre-installed at least.
I use my Steam Deck more than my gaming desktop these days anyway.
Why does the 4070 super keep you from switching to Linux? I have a gaming PC with a 4070 and I dont really have issues. No more than I did with windows in general
Why is the 4070 an issue regarding linux? Nvidia drivers have come a long way since the beginning of the year, currently running modded cyberpunk on my 3070 Ti without issues.
Wayland on Nvidia has a lot of issues was the big one for me. I ended up selling my Nvidia card and bought an AMD card instead.
What AMD card did you get? I switched to Linux and want to drop Nvidia.
9070 XT, similar performance to a 5070 Ti. Needs kernel 6.13.5+ and Mesa 25+ but it’s been flawless for me on Arch using the CachyOS kernel.
Nvidia on modern Linux (Wayland) is garbage and I’m buying AMD next time.
Like seriously, people will try and tell you “oh you can install the proprietary driver easily now and they’ve come a long way”
Sure, but it’s still garbage. I can’t even full screen a video in Firefox without a it crashing and a bunch of apps simply refuse to work without shitty environment variable hacks to drop back to software rendering
I’m not a noob either, I’ve been using Linux as my primary OS since 2008
I just tried fullscreen youtube and it worked flawlessly, and i had a lot more luck than you with different apps. we can at least agree that it isn’t consistently stable depending on configuration, and i feel pretty lucky that my nobara installation is one of the happy ones.
Performance is still noticeably worse. Based on some cursory research, the 4070 Super gets like ~20% less FPS on Bazzite compared to Windows on a 4070 Super and I tend to play high fidelity shooters on my desktop so frames per second matters.
Fair point. Do you know if they where using the open source driver for thr graphics card? Or Nvidia’s proprietary one? Because I’m on Fedora using the Nvidia driver and I dont notice that much of a fps drop. It is some, maybe 5-10%
I did not look that deep. Its not been important enough since again I mostly have been using my Deck more than my Desktop anyway.
Win 2k pro was best. Fight me;) I hated the fisher price look of XP.
the fisher price look of XP.
Thank you for my belly laugh of the day. 😂
Nah win2k pro was really, really slow compared to xp
I liked Vista. Aero Glass was cool.
3.1
Nah they peaked at NT4.0! Fight me! I remember using that for my dual core celeron system! Abit BP6 FTW.
(I agree with you about 2k, but I liked XP and loved the look of Vista so what do I know…)
Nah, they peaked at Windows for Workgroups… Bury me, Im that old lol.
You and your fancy workgroups! In my day we had DOS and we were happy!
I started with DOS. Had my mind blown when I upgraded to DOS 3.
Basic, dos and tomcat bbs
DirectX 3.5 only? IIRC.
It had classic themes available
Uhhh what about Apple?
It’s a) well enshittified to be cumbersome to use without apple’s shitty cloud, b) quality control is really bad last few releases and c) just a different class of a same phylum of fucking corporate roaches
No one cares about Macs.
Several million people who buy them every year certainly do.
Several million nobodies lol
That’s like switching from Tesla to BMW and paying the premium for the heated seats and adjustable shock absorbers to work.
Huh?
That’s switching from EvilCorp A to EvilCorp B, and paying a premium for everything. It’s a valid decision, but not a good one.
I wasn’t suggesting switching to Apple. I was suggesting we sue Apple, who offers far less support.
People will do ANYTHING but switch to linux, huh.
I bought a Mac laptop
Businesses are locked in and the people making the decisions aren’t IT people. I did the Win11 conversion at my last job and have been working on it at my current position. It might just be my social bubble, but the only people worried about Win10 is corpo.
Some key software I need to use doesn’t work on Linux, and is unlikely to be able to in the near future, sorry. I did use Linux for a while, mind you, and I more or less like it… but a computer is only useful if it runs the software you need to do the things you want to do with it.
I don’t want to downgrade to windows 11, but I’m going to be forced to. And to even do that I’m going to need to bypass the hardware authenticator, as I’m apparently ever so slightly behind their so-called minimum requirements, which aren’t really minimum requirements but just a push to get me to buy a new PC I don’t need.
Until Linux uses pretty pictures it won’t be a thing
Linux would find a larger audience if developers remembered that not every user is a power user.
My daily driver laptop, home servers, media center, NAS, etc are all Linux.
My gaming computer isn’t – as much as I would like it to be. There are certain things (particularly VR) that don’t want to work well in Linux.
Which VR headset? Don’t have problem with Valve Index or Quests.
I’m in exactly the same boat. Five linux machines in the house plus two windows gaming rigs, mine and my partners.
I’ve found that many people will go to great lengths to avoid learning anything new.
They want to be able to ignore their computers as much as possible, even considering the prospect of alternative software is taxing and upsetting for them.
I think that’s basically how Microsoft and Adobe are so successful, they bought and cheated their way into the default position, and now they can do whatever they want with no real repercussions.
The user wants to click on the same icons with the same names as before, sometimes it’s as simple as wanting the same name; if it’s not called ‘outlook’ they don’t want it, doesn’t matter how well it works.
I’m fairly techy have a technical job that involves programming, data, and implementation. And I’m still on Microsoft and stock Android. It’s really not that complicated for some of us. I’m not on my phone or home computer that much, I have a mile long “to do” list. I’d love to switch over, but it’s a super low priority. Even if it would only be a few hours, that’s a few hours I could be doing anything else.
Windows in particular I think gets overlooked as ‘good enough’, it’s only when you get into Linux that you really understand how far it has strayed from the light.
You don’t need to spend hours and hours to start, you can dip your toes in with WSL, maybe use a Linux VM for a few tasks that make your life easier at work. It’s not an all-or-nothing affair, but having proficiency in more than one operating system is great professional development regardless of your personal computing preferences.
So I’m partially on board with you.
HOWEVER, windows 11 is dog shit. It’s been over 2 years and is still broken. Missing many features that are available in 10, some super basic shit.
Don’t even get me started on teams/teams classic/teams new, outlook classic/outlook new (also dog shit, dragged a folder inside a folder and it fucking vanished. Had to disable “new” to get it back). Fuck new outlook. I feel like Microsoft is fragmented with what they want to do and not going anywhere, so we’re here with half broken paid app$.
Coupled with the fact 11 is really pushing ai crap, won’t run legit on decent hardware, people are tired of having to buy a new computer every four years. I’m still running an 8th gen, spent $2k+ when I made it and other than being able to play newer games, it doesn’t feel like a thing changed under the hood.
I have several 8th gen dells I used as servers, no reason to replace those for an ad riddled operating system.
Wanting to change and being forced to upgrade are completely different things and I see both sides, having people learn something new and forcing it for “reasons” is bullshit.
I wish more people were willing to give Linux a shot but I also understand that for most of them its a matter of the devil you know versus the one you don’t. They don’t want to learn a new OS when they can just to do their banking and watch TikTok with what they have.
The assumption that you’ll lose a lawsuit against a large corporation probably stops a lot of viable lawsuits from ever happening - good for him for giving it a go.
Looking into switching to Linux…
May you run into a nerd with a Ventoy USB full of beginner-friendly distros in their back pocket to help you along your journey.
There are at least two of us out there, I’m sure of it.
I keep a keychain in my backpack for jusr such an ocassion!
I keep a ventoy USB in my backpack at all times.
Currently I have mint popos endeavour cachy bazzite fedora opensuse. I’m thinking of adding a few more. Maybe add nixOS and Debian to the mix.
And a pack of condoms ?
What, for people to wear on their fingers to keep oil off or something?
HeliumOS, Kubuntu, Linux Mint (standard and Debian Edition), Pop!_OS, Ubuntu, VanillaOS, and Zorin OS here. Helium and Vanilla are not necessarily beginner-friendly but I use them in specific places.
Bought an iodd a few months ago to do my part 🫡
As someone who recently made the switch, DM me if there’s anything I can help with. A lot of the Linux Bros on here will be completely unhelpful out of smug superiority. Also, if you have an HP, you will almost certainly have to do a LOT more work (I had to learn to edit GRUB config files pre-startup). It will be much easier if you don’t have an HP. Anyway, open offer. Also, do Linux Mint.
I’m in the process of switching myself. Threw Ubuntu Studio on my laptop (Samsung Galaxy Book3 Ultra) and I’m currently testing for audio and music production to see if I can make the switch on my main PC for work. I’m loving it so far, though it’s looking like a step back for audio production unfortunately. That being said, where there’s a will there’s a way!
I’m the same, I’ve got a perfectly good desktop machine that isn’t Win11 compatible, as well as a Windows 11 laptop.
Most of what I do on the desktop is browser based, and I have the laptop in case I brick the desktop, so nothing to lose by trying.
Ironically, if I’d been able to upgrade to 11, there’s no way I’d bother with any of this.
You can upgrade to 11, nothibgs stopping you.
But it is far smarter to quit with the abusive, and spying, environment.
Linux is easy and works.
It’s much easier to install Linux these days than it is to install Windows. And with KDE Plasma the user experience is really similar. As for the distribution I would suggest OpenSuse as that has very little requirement for terminal commands, they’ve packaged GUI elements in the whole distro.
As for Tumbleweed vs regular, that’s up to you. I’m happy with Tumbleweed.
I’m happy with Tumbleweed too, but I Max need to point out that the documentation kinda sucks and the community is kind of small. If you’re confident in applying documentation from other distros, you’ll be fine.
I generally recommend Linux Mint to new users because the community is large and accustomed to helping new users, and you can use documentation for Ubuntu and Debian generally without issue.
Check out openSUSE once you figure out what you like and don’t like about Linux distros, it’s a great end game IMO.
Do it.
If you have an old laptop, put Linux on it, get comfortable using it. Then when you are ready, make the full switch on your main computer.
I have used Linux for a few years mostly on my servers, but that’s what I did to get used to the desktop experience. I setup a second SSD to have the option of dual booting if I needed it. That was back in March and I haven’t booted into Windows once.
If not, look around, you can buy off-lease corporate laptops and ultra-small desktops that are just old enough to not support 11 for a song. They lack a GPU for good gaming, but they tend to be extremely well supported on Linux and are not slow. For the price of a Windows license, you can have something to learn on without effecting your main computer.
Yeah I tried. Turns out my fingerprint reader isn’t supported on Linux and never will be and my audio sounded like absolute trash. I probably could have have fixed the audio issue but the fingerprint thing turned me off. Went back to Windows 11 which works just fine for me.
Seconded on do it. It’s a lot better than it was even a few years ago.
Its a fun fantasy but Microsofts pockets are eay too deep to lose to some avarage joe.
Also they can be exempt from the law by gifting donnie and co gold, or initiating “christian friendly initiatives”.
Lol who downvoted this
🐧🐧*🐧🐧🐧=🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧
I’m old enough to remember when MS said Windows 10 would be the last Windows and they’d just update it over time.
Kinda glad that wasn’t the case because those of us who’ve been using Windows 10 all this time would just end up with what Windows 11 is but masquerading as Win 10.
I’m more comfortable with being pushed back into the Linux pool and relearning how to swim those waters.
Having gone from 10 to 11 - it’s pretty much windows 10, at least to an average user like myself … I’m tech savvy enough for Linux but I prefer windows for gaming.
Have to say so far I’m pretty happy with windows 11 but I’m just a random guy who uses it to play video games and that’s about it on that PC so if you’re doing anything crazy under the hood I’m sure there’s some noticeable differences.
Never forget we were told Windows 10 would be the last version. That all updates from then on would be only to Windows 10.
This is my big beef. Last version. Sounded great. We’ve been betrayed.
That was one person who phrased something poorly and it was taken out of context. Sadly.
Literally why I paid for a new version instead of… Finding other ways to install it.
That’s on us though for believing scumbag corporations won’t just straight up lie to sell stuff I suppose :(
Come on, just leave Windows all together
I’ve seen this episode before. something, something, WinXP.
The end of the article misses one possible way to deal with your computer, migrating to Linux. It’s not possible for all the mass of people, but it’s still a possibility.
It’s been clear for years now that I’ll have to fully switch over to Linux eventually once Windows is completely locked down like Macs are. The Steam Deck has been a great stepping stone to getting more comfortable with using it.
It very much is. If you’re willing to invest a few hours of your time to learn something new, you can absolutely switch to Linux.
There is still a lot of software and some very popular games that just don’t work on Linux.
That’s the real problem. You have to be willing to swap out some things. Fortunately, game options seem better than the have ever been, but the old advice was to just game on consoles.
Hell yes.
Switch to Mint, folks! It’s easy and works just like Windows, except better.
I feel like Linux right now is where Windows was in the XP days. for 90% of users it will work out of the box for them. They will be able to check their email, watch YouTube, doom scroll on their choose social media. The challenge is that for the other 10%, the learning curve is a lot steeper than XP was. The learning curve problem is compounded by the massive pile of guide for deprecated sub systems.
I agree that windows should not stop supporting previous versions of windows. Especially when going from windows 10 to 11 wasn’t at all that big of a change. They very easily could have waited longer before making windows 11 the standard or even windows 11 period because it was not that big of a change.
Unfortunately they did not do anything illegal in my opinion but we’ll have to see how this plays out I guess.
And windows 10 will be the last windows. Did everyone forget that??
I mean I would rather use linux if I could get away with it. Unfortunately I have a lot of engineering programs on my pc that I know for a fact would definitely not run on linux which sucks I guess since I am stuck with windows. I thought about dual booting my pc but then immediately realized that is problematic XD.
You can try to put the engineering programs in dedicated snapshotted windows VMs and basically time-capsule them as a working tool forever that never changes and works on any machine.
Your right but that would have massive performance issues. I could definitely do that and that is not a bad idea but I also have a steam deck now for most linux things I do but yes you are right.
GPU passthrough might help?
You can dual boot using separate drives. This has worked for me without any issues and I routinely use solidworks.
Stupid question. How did you do that without having the drives interfere with windows? When I have done that it massively screw up my windows boot somehow and it made everything weird. Basically I had to uninstall it because it was massively grating on my nerves what it was doing to my os. Basically it changed the time and date to a few decades in the future and I could not get around to fixing it. It also caused issues where I couldn’t access certain sites online because of the issues I was having with my pc and the fact the date was so far in the future. Thanks!
I don’t exactly know how the drivers didn’t interfere as I have never done any specific fixes to it. In windows I’ve ran some debloating scripts but I don’t know if that’s the reason, as it seems more deeply rooted.
I have always dual booted from separate drives since I started using linux. I used Ubuntu, arch and finally settled on fedora. In conclusion, dual booting has never been a problem for me.
Thank you! I hope this works when I get home XD
Good luck :3
I remember!
If you don’t switch on SecureBoot, that can still be the truth.
Can you tell me more about what secure boot does in this correct? (Assuming this isn’t a joke)
If you don’t enable SecureBoot then you can’t install Win 11.
As a bonus, you won’t be able to install the latest Call of Duty or Battlefield titles either.
Call of Battle and Duty Field?! And I thought not installing Win11 was a great experience! I can’t wait to not buy and not play both of those games!
Thanks SecureBoot!
Okay but you should enable secure boot on any device you want to keep any level of private data on. It’s trivial to break into a device that doesn’t have it enabled if you can physically access it. Laptops especially should have secure boot enabled.
The thing is on desktop pcs… If someone got physical access to it you don’t want to… You got way bigger issues haha
I’d argue that you now have two major issues. Someone breaking into a house and stealing a desktop isn’t unheard of. Full disk encryption with secure boot deployed will save you the headache of also having your identity/bank account/cc info stolen a few days later.
Yeah, but I might need to break into it to access it, e.g. if hardware dies, or Windows has a fit and breaks something.
This also why I don’t do whole disk encryption; it makes recovery impossible
Except you technically can. Windows 11 registry allows for installation without secure boot and its called after the upgrade process, thats what things like rufus patch to allow it.
Now idk if secure boot has to be enabled for windows 10 to consider it upgrade ready, but its technically all in there
The issue isn’t so much about the actual OS change, as it is about their dumb forced requirement of a TPM. A lot of perfectly fine PC’s don’t have one or don’t have it enabled, as it can cause headaches. If they dropped that requirement, a lot fewer people would care about the switch.
I’ve got an ROG B550E motherboard in my PC, built in July 2021. It’s perfectly fine, perfectly capable. Big ‘ole 3090 in it, plenty of ram… I have zero need to upgrade right now.
It has a firmware TPM option, but that involves doing stuff like updating the bios, configuring some stuff and runs the risk of potentially breaking something. Now, I’m willing to give that a go if push comes to shove, but your average consumer just doesn’t want to deal with that hassle.
Which means that a lot of folks are going to be running an unsupported OS or buying new PC’s when the old ones are still more than capable. You can guess what I think will happen…
Ah that makes sense. I didn’t know what TPM was until today. Surprised that wasn’t in the details in the new article to be honest. Or maybe it was but because I didn’t know what TPM is I didn’t make sense of it.
Microsoft Windows is going to face a challenge in the future with Linux because eventually it will be a bigger thing than Windows and if Windows is unable to change their model Microsoft will not be able to do anything about it. Hence why when Microsoft over a decade ago was faced with the challenge that they were a monopoly and instead of them giving half their stock to Linux, they gave it to Apple so that Apple would compete with Microsoft and they knew they had beaten them once in competition and they can more than easily do it again. Where as with Linux it would be too hard. Especially with the open source capabilities Linux has making it very hard to compete with once it gets too big.
If I can’t get my PC on 11 without hassle, I’m likely to switch to Linux anyway. I’ve beenhearing great things about Linux Mint for gaming. And I’ve owned a Steam Deck since release, so gaming on a Linux system really doesn’t scare me anymore.
And with the current trend of people wanting to take a but more control back from big tech, Microsoft very well might permanently lose customers to Linux. And once they make that switch, they’re not likely to switch back.
