I’ve literally been trying to install windows 11 several times. I’ve made my PC support it, but the update just breaks and rolls back every time
When googling I see others with the same issue but no solution
Install Linux, be done with anything from Microsoft
Stop. We get it. I got a proxmox server, a truenas server, a half rack in the garage and everything is great. I’ve also got three brand-new in the box laptops for people who wouldnt know what to do with any Linux distro. They wanna use office and QuickBooks and that’s it.
I used office and QuickBooks oninux 10 years ago, easier and safer than on windows. What’s your point?
It’s ok. You aren’t gonna get it. Otherwise you already would have.
Why though? This just means that Windows 11 will run on more devices? Why is so important for your device to have a TPM and Secure Boot enabled, and a supported processor? If I were Microsoft, I would put the requirements even lower or even removed them.
This is just my theory, but maybe they want to turn it all into android-levels of lockdown for even stricter DRM and such.
M$ want to become even more unpopular with private users.
Many people don’t care about privacy
Well, they won’t be able to sell as many new computers if they let people keep using their old ones.
Microsoft still makes money off the OEM licenses AFAIK. The Linux community had a whole day about this back in the 90s.
They aren’t big in selling hardware.
Except for laptops.
Even then (and with their Surface tablets) they’re not big for MS.
Somewhat ironically the Surface laptops are really great Linux machines.
Doesn’t matter, they still get money for Windows licences from OEMs.
I know, just clarifying that their main business isn’t selling hardware.
But that’s irrelevant. It’s still in their interest to get you to buy new PCs.
The comment was about selling new computers and not using old ones. They want to sell more software, they aren’t hardware focused.
And that comment was 100% correct. They want more computers sold, because more computers sold means more Windows licences sold.
You’re acting like PC hardware sales are unrelated to Windows license sales. They’re directly related.
Here’s the quote:
they won’t be able to sell as many new computers
Their sales of hardware are insignificant.
If you’re using Windows 11 and not having a great time with it, there are ways to make the experience more pleasant. We’ve covered 14 tweaks to make Windows 11 better and how to remove Windows 11’s junk, which is a good start toward making an OS you enjoy.
There’s another way…
You could install a windows 10 system to replace the windows 11 system!
Imagine having to remove a bunch of shit just so you can use your OS. smh
Luckily, there exists an OS which undermines extreme enshittification. Can’t remember the name, though …
Can’t remember the name, though
It goes by many names…
But you may call it Tim
It is enchanting…
Haiku?
Plan9?TempleOS
BeOS?
TempleOs
Sadly, your hardware must support Spirit Boot to install this OS.
I have deciphered your message, and the answer is clear.
Step one. Install Linux Mint.
“How dare people install our OS without a DRM clipper chip”
“My OS is so secure!” Actually features of the hardware.
Is secure boot still required? Yes?
Can’t force me to do shit Microsoft. Your own OS prevents it :)
You’re misunderstanding, they’re stopping people like you and me who don’t have those.oj their PCs from upgrading via workarounds, not preventing us from a forced upgrade.
I had to go back and reread. I really shouldn’t comment when I’m still in bed.
Seems like you’re not the only one in this thread that fails to even read the title correctly.
They probably read requirement as meaning being required to upgrade to 11.
Install Linux, be done with anything from Microsoft
Hey man, I think your keyboard is broken.
Every single reply you have made in this thread is just the exact same thing.
Leave him. He spreads the truth.
Leave him. He spreads the truth.
Hey thanks man! That’s awesome
I know. It’s noyy keyboard, it’s me.
I’ve had 30 years of having to read one Microsoft bullshit article after another, and then watch people go like sheep and give more monies to Microsoft for their shit. I’m kinda done with that and if my replies are annoying to you, imagine me having to deal with that for 30 years already.
The simple truth is that Linux works, is more reliable and more usable than windows… frankly, always had been. The biggest “ooohhh difficult!” part about it is that a few things work slightly different. Takes 5 minutes to understand and you go. Most people use windows with all its bullshit to do some word stuff and browse the internet. Guess what? You can do that too on Linux. Since 20 years ago already, that’s how long I’ve been on Linux desktop.
Fuck Microsoft bullshit that always ALWAYS vuases problems
but it seems that the Redmond giant has decided that enough is enough.
But why? People who take the effort have their reasons, find other ways.
Btw, Rufus patches the iso, works anyway.
It’s not only TPM. Older chips are missing some actual security features. AMD not patching their old CPUs of their firmware bug will also become a big problem in the long run.
I doubt it, because those bugs require to already have extensive access to the victim PC. Basically, they just expand the trouble on an already compromised system. It’s bad for sure, but at that point you’re already knee deep in shit and this just adds a few buckets on top.
The AMD bug requires the same access that any of serious previous exploits have given. You don’t need physical access. Any exploit that gives root means the payload can be the AMD firmware exploit which will make it permanently undetectable by anti virus and wiping the os won’t remove it.
For example the ssh exploit from years ago allowed root without even an account on the machine. Those affected detected they had been owned, wiped their machines and restored from backup. If something like that happens again, (https://thehackernews.com/2024/07/new-openssh-vulnerability-could-lead-to.html?m=1) you won’t be able to know you are owned.
Any exploit that gives root
Same in green. If the attacker has physical access or root, you have lost already.
This AMD firmware exploit is different. Yes if an exploit gets your computer you have lost. But it happens to thousands every day. A virus scan will detect it and an OS wipe will clean it.
This AMD exploit means the exploit lives inside the CPU firmware. It can’t ever be detected or removed by normal means because the CPU itself is compromised. (Unless you have the hardware to pull physical signals off your dram chips.)
In the past even normal OS patches would clear out any virus’s lingering in the PC population. Now you could be compromised and never know or be able to do anything about it.
A virus scan will detect it and an OS wipe will clean it.
This only works before the malware has been executed and only if the malware scanner knows it. Often Antivirus can block access to the malware, so it can’t be executed.
If it has been executed, the PC needs to be shut down and all writable mediums connected wiped (including boot sectors and EFI), maybe even the BIOS reset, if it can be updated, to be 100% clean. If you can’t do this, you have to toss the PC in the trash.
If the PC is not shut down, the malware could still survive in RAM and re-install its files or download something else, eg. a remote shell or rootkit.
These processor security flaws just extend this to the CPU firmware, meaning you need to reset this too, after malware has been executed on the PC. If you just downloaded it and the antivirus blocked and deleted it, you’re still safe.
If it got executed and you or a technician can’t remove it from the CPU, you have to toss the PC in the trash, just like you already had to if you can’t reset a malware that flashed itself into an updatable BIOS, for example.
Offline virus scanners are standard. That’s always how you detect if you have been infected. Bios viruses are detected and removed by standard anti-virus software.
Not for Microsoft.
“Sorry, you’re running an unsupported, deliberately hacked version of our OS. We can’t help you.”
They aren’t. The article is disingenuous.
Fighting with Windows 11 introduced me to Linux Mint, which works perfectly! I’m not an OS geek, so I really don’t care about the OS – it’s just the thing I deal with on the way to Firefox.
More people will be redirect to Linux, cool.
Sorry for disappoint you. But, normies don’t know what is Linux about? hell even higher than average tech-savvy people know little bit Ubuntu as a Linux.
I’m a sysadmin. We’re a Linux shop, I spend my life deep in the guts of Linux boxes, both server and desktop.
And for my daily-driver both at work and at home, I use windows.
The UI and overall UX are just better. The annoying bullshit I make a living knowing my way around, I don’t have to think about.
For actual development or backend services, of course you want a Linux box. Proper logging, proper tools, build shit, pipe it together, automate stuff and get down and technical when it breaks. Doing that on windows is absolutely hell.
But on windows, the volume control just works, I never have to delete lockfiles to get my browser to open, my desktop login doesn’t terminate if something in .profile returned nonzero, I can play every video game out there without having to fuck around, I can use native versions of real apps, I don’t have package-management dependency hell, all the pieces were designed to work with each other, and the baseline cognitive load needed to just use my computer is zero, which frees up my brain to focus on my actual work, or for playing games and fucking around on the internets.
For UI/UX, you get to choose your DE if you want. Find something you like. KDE is very Windows-like, but with the ability to customize it if there’s things you don’t like.
As for the rest of your issues, literally I have never had an issue with them. Gaming is also perfectly fine without fucking around now, with very few exceptions (like Valorant that wants a rootkit). Also, no all the pieces on Windows weren’t designed to work together. For example, each individual app has to check for its own updates when it runs, which is the worst time to update, and you have to go to a website to download an updater. A package manager just a handles it all for you, because they’re designed to work together unlike Windows.
I don’t know about your actual competency with Linux/computers-in-general. I don’t want to make assumptions, but you really don’t seem to know what you’re doing. If Windows has less cognitive load, then you’re doing something wrong. You should experiment with other options and find what works for you.
I do know about window managers, thanks.
And that’s part of the problem: they all have their own slightly different infrastructure that relies on slightly intricate and not-quite-standard plumbing.
Dialogs not opening, or those weird invisible 30-second timeouts opening an application becasue dbus isn’t happy because one of the xorg init scripts messed some XDG path or set the wrong GTK_* option, or XAUTHORITY is pointing somewhere weird.
Whichever user is logged in locally should be allowed to talk to the device they plugged in via usb? Well that’s just an unreasonable thing to expect to happen by default, let me spend 20 minutes cooking up a udev script to chown it on creation.
Users managing to set their default terminal to some random script they were working on (seriously, how?). Or they initialised their xfce4 profile with the blank-toolbar option and now can’t work out how to launch anything.
Notification popups? Sure, the toolbar will let you add one, but nothing communicates with it by default lol.
also jesus christ kde.
And I’m talking about the built-in functionality of the desktop environment wrt package management, not separate applications.
Sure, it’s nice to be able to apt-get upgrade and just get everything all at once - when everything is happy with everything else.
But when you get conflicting dependencies and you have to take time out to track down what libpyzongo0-util is used for or what is going to break later on if you just purge it because people use cutesy package names that are worse than Ruby libraries in terms of communicating what they’re actually for, and do we need this thing for the core platform or it it form some random crap that was installed ad-hoc and used precisely once, it gets old.
Like I say you need this amount of flexibility and complexity for development and deployment and network services and all the rest. Anyone using Windows for much more than file-print-office-browser-gaming has more masochism in them than I can comprehend.
But for that same very minimal set of core use-cases, you don’t need (or, I’d argue, want) flexibility or complexity, you want it to be simple and robust with JOWTDI. And for everything else, you ssh into your linux box and do it there. I was amazed to discover that Windows Terminal is actually really nice; combine that with an X server and maybe a VNC client, and you’ve got the best of both worlds.
And yes, Windows has all kinds of annoying shit of its own - but that mostly pops up when you want to do interesting things on it, not when you just want to look at cat videos on the internet.
Are you using debian woody or something? That list of issues is so weird.
I’m a sysadmin. We’re a Linux shop, I spend my life deep in the guts of Linux boxes, both server and desktop.
And for my daily-driver both at work and at home, I use windows.
The UI and overall UX are just better. The annoying bullshit I make a living knowing my way around, I don’t have to think about.
You are either lying or incredibly incompetent.
But on windows, the volume control just works,
Yes, there are edge cases in some distributions where - somewhere in the pulseaudio mess - this can be an issue on linux. However, basically everywhere in a default installation of a major distro, this works out of the box
I never have to delete lockfiles to get my browser to open,
Neither do normal people on Linux. Not sure what you broke to make that happen.
my desktop login doesn’t terminate if something in .profile returned nonzero,
In 20 years of using SUSE, debian, ubuntu as daily drivers, I have never ever managed to break a user profile this way.
I can play every video game out there without having to fuck around,
Because developers actively target the windows platform. Strawman: That’s a matter of software developed for the platform, not a shortcoming of the platform.
I can use native versions of real apps,
This is just plain bullshit. How desperate is your argument if you have to use the word “real” implying it has any meaning in this context other than tautologic “native versions of native apps”? The free software selection on Linux is vast. Obviously, if your life depends on some application that only runs on Windows, you’ll work with that. Still, that’s absolutely no shortcoming of Linux.
I don’t have package-management dependency hell,
Neither do you on a stable major linux distro.
all the pieces were designed to work with each other,
That is just plain bullshit again. Every single developer for Windows does their own thing, and sometimes it works, sometimes it breaks your system.
and the baseline cognitive load needed to just use my computer is zero,
More bullshit. in every single version of Windows and associated software, they “misplace” configuration settings and or menu functionality, change the UI, and you have tons of graphical bloat that keeps you from getting to the functionality you actually need.
which frees up my brain to focus on my actual work, or for playing games and fucking around on the internets
Megabullshit. Doing “actual work” on any version of windows requires increasing amounts of overhead with each new version just to navigate the UI bloat and restrictions imposed by the OS.
Why did I waste my time responding to such an obvious trollbait? That one’s on me, I guess…
Preach! If this guy was my sysadmin at work, I’d fire him.
A censor happy mod thinks they are the greatest… How pathetic :D
seems he is also an insecure wimp who can’t take criticism - and found a mod dumb enough to censor for him…
I personally find the my cognitive load with Linux is much lower now that I’ve switched over.
First of all, the Windows 11 UI is awful and ugly. The Windows 10 UI was never that great and only looks good as it ended up sandwiched between 8 and 11. I’d have to go to Windows 7 for something that’s decent. Admittedly the polish on a lot of Linux DEs and applications can leave a lot to be desired, but I have a choice between multiple DEs and many of those DEs are highly customizable. I’d have to go back to Windows 7 for something that’s better polished and works as good for me as XFCE does.
Then there’s being in control of my own computer. I control when it does its updates. My computer respects my settings and preferences and doesn’t randomly change or reset them. It doesn’t randomly install unwanted software on it’s own, or reinstall stuff I explicitly removed. It doesn’t place ads in my whisker menu or on my desktop or lock screen. There’s no telemetry being sent home to the mothership. With anything past Windows 8 I’ve never really felt like I’m in complete control and Microsoft can just do whatever the hell they want.
While there are the occasional issues as someone who is familiar with Linux it’s typically not too difficult to track it down and fix it. Though there are exceptions of course. At least if I have to edit some files in /etc they tend to stay that way as opposed to having to edit the registry with regedit.exe only to have Windows randomly undo what I did with the next update. And while PulseAudio is notorious for causing all sorts of havoc, it seems like it’s finally gotten to the point where it finally works and I haven’t had any issues with the volume control for a while now.
As for games it obviously matters what games you like to play, but the amount of tinkering I’ve had to do to play any game in my Stream library beyond enabling Proton so far is zero. Which has been a very pleasant surprise and honestly I’ve been pretty impressed with that.
Installation and setup of a windows OS with programs the user wants takes hours.
Installation and setup of linux with programs… Days or weeks due to some obscure thing that didn’t work and nobody seems to know about or because the “configuration” file has many options but it requires you already knowing what you want and what it does (looking at you mpv).I’m still fiddling with mine due to minor but important problems, I can’t picture the people I know even attempting to figure out linux.
Does it take longer? It almost always just works for me. I tell my package manager to install the package I want and then it’s taken care of, and updates are automatically managed. There’s no hunting around different websites for the installer and then going to the website to update every time the application launcher detects an update when it runs, which is the opposite of when I want to update it.
I don’t know what issues you’re facing, so I can’t comment on it directly. I’ve installed three different distributions withing the past 1.5 years, all which use different package mangers. Each one was faster than settings things up in Windows. The difference is my Windows install I installed a ton of things over time, most of which I wanted immediately when swapping. I don’t know how long it took in total for Windows, but I promise it was significantly longer.
Also the distro I’m using now, Garuda, has a tool to install a bunch of common applications that runs at start. You just tick the ones you want and it handles the rest. A lot of distros have something similar, which is really fast.
That would be me.
Tried Ubuntu 15 years ago, but couldn’t because Nvidia driver issues, and haven’t tried again
Look, dudes, I’m bootstrapping a small business while trying to manage ADHD. I can barely get two hours of admin work done in an eight hour day. I just need things to work. I’d love to walk away from Windows but I don’t have the mental bandwidth for that shit
And even if I did, my wife and I share a gaming computer/media center. There’s nothing like having her call me in the middle of a workday because my VPN is keeping her from logging into PBS so that she can watch Grantchester. Imagine the headaches if I installed a new OS.
Much like improving my physical fitness, I have the desire, but not the will
I just setup an old friend couple new computer with Windows. We lost a full day as the HP printer didn’t work (yet worked via Android and my linux laptop without installing absolutely anything), Outlook doesn’t save passwords (so we moved to Thunderbird), chrome is a mess (so we moved to Firefox + unlock origin), Microsoft excel is incredibly expensive and refused to open the only spreadsheet they needed (so me moved to libreoffice)…
A fucking nightmare. And everything worked fine with FOSS or on my laptop.
Just stay away from nvidia on Linux and you are golden.
Just stay away from nvidia on Linux and you are golden.
I’m sorry but this is the kind of condescending bullshit that pushes me away from Linux
I got a 3070TI for half off MSRP for open box in the middle of the crypto bubble, and I’m not buying another GPU until I absolutely have to.
You want more people to embrace Linux? Make it work on startup without jumping through a bunch of hoops, on the hardware we already own.
Your lived experience with Windows is yours, and I’m glad you have a system that works for you. I don’t have the time or mental energy to learn, not just a new OS, but also all of the bugs that go with it.
Look, I get it. I’m putting my apprentice in my old work van, and as I’m looking at the old heap I’m remembering all the little quirks it has that I’ve developed blind spots for. Blind spots they don’t have. Quirks that are actually problems. I know there are problems with windows that I ignore because I know how to work around them. I know the workarounds because I’ve been using Windows since 3.11. I didn’t have that experience with Linux, and neither does my wife. A woman who once nearly bricked our computer falling for an Indian call center scam.
When this rig bites the dust, I’ll probably build a Linux gaming box and just tell her to get used to the OS. For now, we’re using Windows
Also HP is shit and I’d gladly put any HP exec in the hospital if I met them
I honestly never had any problems with my nvidia cards on my Linux systems, and these are my daily drivers. I have 1 laptop that only has Windows and the other 6 computers here don’t. 3 of them are equipped with Nvidia GPUs and work without a single thing ever going wrong with them in that regard.
People who keep perpetuating these ideas that Nvidia = trouble don’t seem to understand that it’s scaring people from trying it out.
I’m AMD, but I heard Nvidia is much better now, and open source drivers are coming soon I believe. That should make the GPU excuse another dead one, along with the gaming one. There’s not going to be many good excuses left.
Most distros work fine with Nvidia these days. The ones that don’t are more the exception.
Just gotta spread the word. I got two people to switch from Windows to Linux recently. When they heard about an alternative they got very interested and jumped on the opportunity. People want an alternative, but like you say they don’t know one exists, so we need to keep spreading the word of Linux.
PS. They both are enjoying the ad free experience and don’t have any big issues or problems with Linux. Just learning pains
Thank god, for a second there I thought they meant “cracking down on people dodging Windows 11 by intentionally disabling TPM,” like I’ve been doing. False alarm, carry on.
That is half the reason I have it disabled on my desktop. The other half being that the BIOS updates never fixed the fTPM stuttering issues for my computer (both using the 3700X and 5800X) so the computer is unusable with it turned on.
And here I am using a modern Linux OS on a 15 year old desktop without any issues or nagging to log into an online account or to backup all my shit to some server, open to hackers, in windows world.
Not long ago I was told by someone who claimed to be an expert that a 3 year old middle of the road gaming laptop was to old to support win 10 and that’s why it was crashing all the time, Linux may not be perfect in every way but Windows is dying a slow, painful, e-waste generating death and Microsoft doesn’t seem to care, I’m glad I jumped ship when I did
I just installed Linux Mint on a 15-year-old desktop that has never been upgraded and was middle-of-the-road when I got it. It shipped with Windows 7, and I tried a couple of times to upgrade to 10 (it failed every time, either losing core hardware functionality, running so slowly as to be unusable, or just refusing to boot altogether). But it runs Linux like a dream. Seriously—it’s easily running the latest version of Mint better than it ran an 11-year-old service pack of Windows 7.
What’s even crazier is that I installed VirtualBox on it, and put Windows 10 on that, to use some work programs. And that runs Windows 10 a bit slowly, but otherwise more or less flawlessly!
That’s right: I’m having a better Windows experience in Linux than I’ve ever had on baremetal Windows on this box.
I can’t believe I didn’t do this…well, 15 years ago.
I can’t believe I didn’t do this…well, 15 years ago.
For what it’s worth, your experience 15 years ago likely would have been very different. It’s only in the past few years that things like drivers for basic hardware have become widely available on Linux without a bunch of weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. And even today, there are still certain drivers that often don’t like to play nice.
Ask anyone who had an nvidia GPU 15 years ago if they’d suggest switching to Linux. The answer would have been a resounding “fuck no, it won’t work with your GPU.”
Eh, “a few years” here is selling Linux a bit short. I switched about 15 years ago, and while driver issues were a thing, it was still a pretty solid experience. I had to fiddle with my sound card and I replaced my wifi card in my laptop, but other than that, everything else worked perfectly. That still occasionally happens today, but as of about 10 years ago, I honestly haven’t heard of many problems (esp. w/ sound, that seems largely solved, at least within a few months of HW release).
I don’t know what you’re talking about WRT GPUs. Bumblebee (graphics switch) was absolutely a thing back in the day for Nvidia GPUs on laptops, which kinda sucked but did work, and today there are better options. On desktops, I ran Nvidia because ATI’s drivers were more annoying at the time. Ubuntu would detect your hardware and ask you to install proprietary drivers for whichever card you had. I ended up getting a laptop w/o a dGPU, mostly because I didn’t want to deal with graphics switching, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t work, it was just a pain. For dedicated systems though, it was pretty simple, I was able to play Minecraft on the GPU that came with my motherboard (ATI?), and it ran the beta Minecraft build just fine, along with some other simple games.
In short, if you were on a desktop, pretty much everything would work just fine. If you were on a laptop, most things would work just fine, and the better your hardware, the fewer problems you’d have (i.e. my ThinkPad worked just fine ~10 years ago).
Playing games could be a bit more tricky, but for just using the machine, pretty much any hardware would work out of the box, even 15 years ago. It has only gotten better since then.
That’s a good point. I didn’t think about that.
Article isn’t that great. The change is in beta, and it’s preventing the installer from accepting a switch that declares the OS to be a server product.
MS hasn’t said it’s going after any upgrades that are running out of spec hardware. This really sounds like they are just fixing an upgrade option.
