a common way to keep tabs on friends, family and romantic partners so I allow the app to alert him each time I reach my front door. In a disappointingly heteronormative and retrograde move, I’m more interested in knowing when he goes out – where’s he off to now? – and set up my own notifications accordingly. Having grown up with the internet, gen Z are, generally, more comfortable sharing their data online; Snapchat, the social media platform notoriously most popular with younger users, has long incorporated location sharing with its Snap Maps feature.
Does anyone even have a private moment at all? Also if I were to cheat I’d leave my phone in a very specific spot if I can. Faux location services may work, but mostly switching to a feature phone seems to be secret trick that shuts down these app fueled nightmare.
Oh, sorry, the battery is down I had to switch to my old phone for a moment! When did we stop having private moments and thoughts? I like tech when it aides me, but recently it has been feeding off my personal time and even some order of thoughts in ways it didn’t do before. It almost feels like it tries to fix and set up human emotions in ways that are forced.
Do you want technology to replace normal communication and socialisation skills? Or does it even matter to you that it is what happens now. Remember that only a few years before nobody followed you all the day, and even the internet access was relegated to a computer room. How far have we come from that?
I noticed this becoming more common. Young people do so enjoyably. Old people I hear talk about it, it sounds controlling and bordering on unhinged paranoia. Those young people will be old someday too along with whatever sorts of paranoias they develop like all people seem to do
Kids these days® were born into a world of surveillance capitalism, so they have no reference to compare it to.
At least when they get lost because of dementia it’ll be easy to find them.
“safety is certainly a big part of the appeal for many users – so I allow the app to alert him each time I reach my front door.” I’m finding that people are irrationally paranoid these days. They see random acts of violence in the news and think it might happen to them but its so statistically unlikely given these are already unlikely events and these people usually middle class people living in nice areas.
They see random acts of violence in the news
Which is the only thing the news shows them to begin with… almost as if they cherry-pick stuff.
BREAKING NEWS: Girl gets home safely after night out. More at 11.
Humans are awful at accessing risk and chance, one of the reasons casinos and lotteries thrive.
Look at fear of flying for an example, all statistics say you are many many many times over more likely to get into a car accident on your way to the airport, than during the flight. Even when the ride to the airport is usually short and the flight very long. Yet people are afraid of flying, but not going by car. By percentage, there are of course those, rightly so, afraid of cars as well.
the flight very long.
IIRC most accidents happen during take-off/landing.
Once you’re up there it’s chill.It doesn’t really matter how you measure it, number of flights, duration, distance traveled, etc… No matter which, air travel is by far the safest option. The only other that comes anywhere near is trains. Going by car is bad (though motorcycle is even worse), but so many are afraid of flying that they instead takes the car. Which is among the worst things you could do from a safety point of view.
Risk assessment is probability and severity. The probability can be vanishingly low, but if the severity is astoundingly high then acting like a high risk situation could be appropriate.
Take asteroids. The last planet killer to hit us was 94million years ago. A rudimentary estimate could put the probably as 1:94mil. The severity of an asteroid impact of that magnitude is off the charts, so it is reasonable to consider it a risk and act accordingly to spend resources to search for and track asteroid trajectories.
The severity of abduction, murder, and rape is probably pretty high for most people, so considering it a risk even with a very small probability is not unreasonable.
Location sharing doesn’t prevent any of that though?
Like, no criminal who would want to rape/murder/abduct you knows whether you are sharing your location with anyone. They would do so regardless before anyone can arrive to help you.
Also, no kidnapper on this planet is stupid enough to take your phone with them. You have a slightly higher chance for authorities to be alerted sooner but that’s about it.
Oh yeah, location sharing will have almost no effect those risks. Totally agree.
Just disagreeing that low probability of occurrence automatically means the risk assessment should be low.
My wife and I have had our location shared with each other for years, but it’s not a “Are they cheating?” thing. I have been married for 14 years and never wonder if my wife is cheating on me. It’s just incredibly useful for seeing how far away one of us is from home to do things like plan dinner prep times, know where to look for a lost phone, etc. If you can’t trust your SO, there is something wrong that you need to address and micro-managing where they are is toxic.
Also, do yourself a favor and use something open source and/or self hosted. Home Assistant, for example, has the ability to track location data for iOS and Android devices and pin that location to a map. Don’t give your location data to corporations to be used for data mining.
Call me old fashioned, but I put it in the same bucket as a prenup: If you’re always prepping your heart and mind for a split, you’ll always have one foot out the door. Not everyone will agree with me, but that’s how I feel and it’s why I don’t have one. Find yourself someone who is ride or die, if you are looking for a lifetime partner. Don’t settle for someone you can’t trust with your life.
That said, not everyone is looking for monogamy for the rest of their life, either, and that’s OK, too.
My wife and I have had our location shared with each other for years, but it’s not a “Are they cheating?” thing. I have been married for 14 years and never wonder if my wife is cheating on me. It’s just incredibly useful for seeing how far away one of us is from home to do things like plan dinner prep times, know where to look for a lost phone, etc. If you can’t trust your SO, there is something wrong that you need to address and micro-managing where they are is toxic.
My wife and I are the same. Shared location means rather than a message saying “are you on your way home?” you can just check where they’re at. If I’m out on a late night callout she can see where I am instead of worrying or constantly pinging for updates. Meeting somewhere? Live updates keeps everyone in sync, and let’s you know if you’ve got time to do something on the way or if they’re already waiting or whatever.
People must be in some super unhappy relationships if they see location sharing as nefarious.
This is like, the opposite of old-fashioned. Calling your wife when you’re on the way home is old-fashioned.
This article is the first time I’m actually hearing about this idea because it never even occurred to me as something people would actually want to do. I frankly don’t see the point of this nonsense. I would much rather talk to my wife on the phone and communicate with her about plans. It’s much more human and normal, and facilitates good communication habits. It takes 2 minutes to give my wife a call and, you know what, I get to talk to my wife! We don’t need technology invading absolutely every aspect of our lives. We don’t need to be constantly plugged in and attached to our phones at the hip.
It also has other downsides, like making it hard to surprise your partner, constant battery drain from the constant location chatter, etc. In fact, it seems like all downside with no actual benefit (setting aside the trust stuff, because it’s pretty irrelevant either way).
We don’t need technology invading absolutely every aspect of our lives.
Calling each other is technology. It’s simply a technology you’ve normalized
I get where you’re coming from, but I loathe talking on the phone. I love talking to my wife, but we do that when sitting down for coffee and breakfast in the morning.
Call me old fashioned, but I put it in the same bucket as a prenup
I don’t agree. Prenups are passive, they don’t do anything until not needed. all the while this is a major breach of privacy, for both parties, and also of trust.
all the while this is a major breach of privacy, for both parties, and also of trust.
How? My situation is similar to the person you’re replying to and I’m curious how two consenting adults sharing their location with each other is “a major breach of privacy, for both parties, and also of trust”.
Maybe if one party is unwilling or has no say/control in location sharing but specifically in the scenario at hand I don’t see it.
because you are not sharing your location with each other. you are sharing your location with a greedy company that also lets your significant other, and then the highest bidder access this information. they are doing whatever they please with it to make (even more) money.
see, I was so into google’s timeline feature years ago. but soon after I realized privacy is a thing I was disgusted of it and turned it off. if you run nextcloud and that addon I don’t remember, or reitti, at home and use that, and you keep is somewhat safe*, then it’s fine, and I could imagine using that, even just for myself.I should have explained that. for some reason I tend to assume that lemmy users are privacy conscious, but that’s probably not true.
* don’t expose the services because your data will get stolen and you’ll get hacked by automated systems. run a VPN on the server, only expose the port of that. then you can access the services through a VPN. wireguard is relatively simple, and it’s secure.
You can self host location sharing. I do it with Nextcloud. Home assistant can do it too.
I think you didn’t read my comment
you are sharing your location with a greedy company […] and then the highest bidder access this information
Pretty sure I read it.
You can do location sharing WITHOUT interacting with any “greedy company” or “highest bidder”.
Then you state…
if you run nextcloud and that addon I don’t remember, or reitti, at home and use that, and you keep is somewhat safe*
and I confirm that you can do it in Nextcloud, and ALSO Home Assistant… as Home assistant is also likely to be something people are running.
I think you didn’t read my comment
I think that you think that everyone who ever comments to your post is always arguing against you.
Edit: missed a couple of words.
I get that it’s not privacy focused; so much these days isn’t, but I’m still not understanding how two adults knowingly enabling location sharing via a 3rd party service is “a major breach of privacy, for both parties, and also of trust”.
I’m gathering that your intent was more along the lines of “it’s not very privacy conscious since you have no control over how the 3rd party uses that data or any way to control it”, would that be accurate?
I get that it’s not privacy focused
its not “not privacy focused”, but it is completely against it. there’s almost zero things private about it, only that it’s not entirely public. but tbh, at that point that difference would not matter to me
I’m gathering that your intent was more along the lines of “it’s not very privacy conscious since you have no control over how the 3rd party uses that data or any way to control it”, would that be accurate?
well, for the most part yes, very mildly
at that point that difference would not matter to me
Got it. Seems like you’re applying your preference to the original commenters situation; that’s where I was getting confused.
I’m not sure I understand you, but my point is that I strictly don’t want my location history to be known by such a company. if it somehow still happened, I wouldn’t care if only that company or anyone from the public would know, because those who really want to know can get access anyway.
another way to put it: I don’t care that my neighbor can have a look at it, because I know they don’t care at all, and have better things to do. but in my opinion, if someone cares to check it any time, there’s a high chance that their intentions are not good or neutral. of course differences like family, maybe coworkers in very soecial jobs, but otherwise.
My wife and I share our location. We both trust each other implicitly and neither of us consider it a breach of privacy, but rather a willing sharing of information. I think if this is demanded of someone unilaterally, it would be both a breach of privacy and trust, but it’s just so damn convenient for our lives and makes us both feel safer. If I’m out late in the city to see a friend, my wife can easily see that I’m safe making it to my car and driving home. If my wife is working late and forgets to text, I can easily check and know she’s still in the building. As two gay women, it was a no-brainer for us. I would never demand that of someone. It seems like a lot of people in the comments see sharing location as an intrinsically harmful or negative action, whereas it’s far more context and consent dependent for me. Hell, I even share my location with a friend for a few hours if I’m doing something sketchy.
We both trust each other implicitly and neither of us consider it a breach of privacy, but rather a willing sharing of information.
I was unclear on what I meant by the breach of privacy. there’s another comment chain discussing that but tldr: it’s not about sharing your location with your SO, but entrusting profit driven careless companies with both of your sensitive information.
Additionally, there’s something I haven’t written in that other thread. It’s not only about the both of you. I as a host (in my house, this does not apply to public places) don’t want to have guests who’s phones are uploading their visit at my place to any such services, because that also affects my privacy. but it’s also a bit weird, because I don’t feel I have the right to ask if they have such an app, let alone asking them to turn it off.
so, my point is not about not trusting your SO, but about not trusting random companies, because they are repeatedly showing both neglect and a big tendency to sell user data and lie to their benefit.
This has nothing to do with the tracking. You should have the same problem with anyone that has location turned on in their phone. Turning on GPS tracking for me and my wife has not given Google new data on our locations, as we use Google maps to navigate as is. I reject the premise that I’m violating someone else’s privacy by doing so. I’ve also opted out of any app using my location without my express permission. You certainly wouldn’t have the right to ask someone to turn something like that off simply because you don’t trust the corporations on the other end, because you have no idea what service, what precautions they’ve taken, and if they’re actively sharing. If you were going to do so, then you should also inspect people’s phones for having location turned on, and check all their apps permissions for location.
This has nothing to do with the tracking.
what is “this”? location sharing apps? if yes, why do you think these are unrelated?
You should have the same problem with anyone that has location turned on in their phone.
I don’t care about a random person having location turned on. why should I? there’s plenty of offline uses for that function, I use it regularly. maps, sports tracking, reminders, …
, as we use Google maps to navigate as is. I reject the premise that I’m violating someone else’s privacy by doing so.
that’s ok, when it only affects you. but when you are navigating to a friend’s place, with this thinking you are just ignorant about what is actually happening. I’m genuinely sorry to point this out.
this is a bit similar to when people refuse the fact that by uploading a picture of someone to facebook they might be violating their privacy.
or when people haphazardly allow contacts access to random apps, or to apps like facebook messenger because it asks so nicely, and then disclaim responsibility over where does that contact information go.You certainly wouldn’t have the right to ask someone to turn something like that off simply because you don’t trust the corporations on the other end,
not just the corporations, but the tech hygiene of the average person. I am aware that it sounds bad, and I hate it that it is warranted.
Are you seriously arguing that navigating to someone’s house with Google maps is violating their privacy? When I do share my location, I’m sharing through Google maps, directly to my wife’s Google account. Google can already see my location for maps purposes. They have obtained no new information. If you are in fact arguing that using Google maps violates the privacy of anyone you navigate to, then I just don’t agree and can’t take you seriously. If you’re arguing that somehow sharing my location to my wife’s account in Google maps is somehow fundamentally different for privacy than using Google maps is already, then I just don’t understand you. You’re okay with people using maps but not sharing their location within those maps apps. That’s a very confusing moral stance.
Are you seriously arguing that navigating to someone’s house with Google maps is violating their privacy? When I do share my location, I’m sharing through Google maps, directly to my wife’s Google account. Google can already see my location for maps purposes. They have obtained no new information.
yes I do. that information does not just stay on your phone. just like taking pictures of someone and uploading them to facebook against their will. or the other examples I already said. convenience does not magically launder an act that goes against someone’s privacy.
you are right that in your case they did not obtain new information with the planned route, because the location sharing already exposes it. I thought it is obvious that it only applies when you are not sharing your location.
You’re okay with people using maps but not sharing their location within those maps apps. That’s a very confusing moral stance.
I don’t see why is that confusing. there are map apps that dont share your searches or anything with anyone. google maps is not the only thing on the world.
Legally and practically, prenups are anything but passive. They’re proactive tools. They’re usually dormant, but they’re ready to be called into action.
Marriage is different things to different people. Some have every intention to make it work, no matter what. To them, a prenup is an anti-“burn the ship”. It’s a statement.
Also, tools like “find my” are not major breaches of privacy if both parties jointly agree to use them. For me and my family, it’s the ultimate expression of trust. I’m never somewhere I shouldn’t be, and I like my family knowing where I am, for a multitude of reasons.
There are two types of people who a tracker wouldn’t be effective for: those who are in an inappropriate location, and those who are constantly questioning why someone is in an innocent place, regardless of where it may be. However, at that point, the issue isn’t the trackers; it’s the people.
This comment is just ‘what do you have to worry about it you’re not doing anything wrong’ with extra words.
Nope. That’s part of it. But if that’s what you walked away with, that’s fine.
Consensually choosing to share my location with my wife is not the same as not caring about my data being collected or sold. I don’t have any intention to break her trust, but that has nothing to do with why we share location. It’s all about safety and convenience. I know when she’s working late. She knows when I made it back to my car safely after a night out. I know when she’s on her way home, even when she forgets to text me, so I can start cooking. As two gay women in a conservative area, it just made sense.
Legally and practically, prenups are anything but passive. They’re proactive tools. They’re usually dormant, but they’re ready to be called into action.
that’s what I meant by passive. they don’t do anything until invoked, once.
It’s like comparing a personal forcefield with an always worn camera and mic that streams your life to google’s personal security subsidiary, if I want to magnify the differences.
I don’t see why what you said makes it not passive. maybe we understand that term differently.
Some have every intention to make it work, no matter what.
that’s how abusers learn they can do whatever they want
Also, tools like “find my” are not major breaches of privacy if both parties jointly agree to use them. For me and my family, it’s the ultimate expression of trust.
I don’t necessarily mean breach of privacy that way. if everyone voluntarily agrees, without “problems”, that’s good. but more that the service provider has access to a fuckton of sensitive data! I can imagine people who accept that… and then who also condemn others for wanting to escape shit privacy invading services
This article constantly reloads and alternates between showing and hiding some warning about my privacy lol. Unreadable.
My wife and I have it on Google Maps. I can’t remember why, but we’ve had it for years. I think my wife worries if I’m safe sometimes. I think I check it less than once a year. I checked it once to see if they were on their way home once, that’s about it.
Immature crap like this makes me very grateful to be a grownup married to a grownup.
I’ve never really bothered with relationships, and everytime I see some shit like this, it validates that choice.
Meanwhile, I often work with immediate risk of death or injury and, by law, I can not be equipped with a panic button for rescue purposes, as it is deemed unlawful surveillance of the worker.
I am supposed to warn in advance what work I will be doing and agree on a reasonable time window for it to be done safely, before having to call in again to say I am not yet dead and if the task is done or not.
My wife and I have each other’s locations. We trust each other. We just like having that information available. It’s really not that hard to understand.
Not hard to understand, no, but many find it to be creepy and invasive.
A lot of those people are projecting their insecurities onto others relationships.
Yeah like … I trust my husband, and I am also not his keeper, so I do not need to know where he is 24/7. I find it very odd and invasive.
Not hard to understand, no, but many find it to be creepy and invasive.
Those people are free to not use the tech. Being forced to use the tech, however, is absolutely a problem.
It sounds like you and your wife have a healthy relationship. That’s awesome! But, for possessive and controlling relationships, surveillance can be harmful.
Personally, my location is shared with my sister. I’d share it with my partner but he is a bit of a Luddite. I wouldn’t be sharing because he asked, I would be doing it so he could find me easily in an emergency.
And, I wouldn’t ask him to share his. If he turned it on and wanted me to have it, that’s cool. And if not, that’s cool too.
But, for possessive and controlling relationships, surveillance can be harmful.
Absolutely. My previous marriage was like that. Luckily the topic of location tracking never came up.
Quit cheating or split up. It’s not complicated.
I have location sharing between me and my friends because… What if something happens to any of us? That’s it, nothing else, I don’t spy on them.
If I was actively sharing locations with someone and theirs just abruptly vanished, I’d be concerned that something happened to them… either share or don’t share.
This kind of shit is pretty common for younger people. I work as a teacher, and I hear students talk about this all the time. I tell them how unhealthy it is blah, blah, blah. My SO tells the younger people at her work “If I had PumpkinSkink’s location sharing on he couldn’t surprise me with cake from the bakery”. She has had more success than I getting people to stop.
If this was demanded of me, I would end the relationship immediately. That’s absolutely not worth it.
And what if you broke your leg and were lying in a ditch while chipmunks were eating your spleen, eh? How would anyone ever find you huh? Bet the egg is really on your face now!
Well then that’s just too bad for me, isn’t it?
Obviously I have my phone on me so I could just dial 911. If your phone breaks when whatever occurs to you, then your spouse or whatever isn’t going to be able to track your location and you’re not going to be able to call 911 either. So either way you’re fucked.
Don’t be silly, you’ll obviously have your hands full defending your spleen from chipmunks, no time to dial 911
But what if a T-Rex swats your phone away but gets distracted trying to pick it up with his tiny arms, and forgets to eat you, huh? Bet you didn’t consider that likely scenario eh Buster Brown?
i’d get those chipmunks some cheese.
Yep. This is one of those hard lines for me. And I feel like it’s a red flag for anyone who demands it from a partner.
I trust my partner and they trust me. I actively encourage them to do things without me, because I want them to be an independent person. I want them to have friends that I don’t hang out with.
I comment in a different part of this thread how my spouse and just share everything, but I complete get what you are saying.
My wife and I have location sharing enabled in case something happens to one of us. We usually don’t use it, but its good to have when we need to meet up at an unfamiliar place after something goes sideways for one of us.
But if your SO doesn’t trust you enough to allow you private moments and would accuse you of cheating, your relationship isn’t based on trust and thus is very weak.
