- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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This is one of the reason that the USA being heavy handed with Chinese is going to bite us in the ass. While in the USA, we bury our heads in the sand and GM, Tesla and etc. all crank out $95,000 giant trucks/SUVs, some companies in China are making very, very affordable vehicles. These aren’t necessarily garbage either – there’s models available for almost any price point.
What WOULD be really smart and forward thinking is if in the USA, the domestic brands also make some affordable models to get EV more popular. However, they are addicted to fat profit margins, and thanks to all the protectionism, they don’t need to worry about offshore models being “better”.
While other nations either develop and/or import affordable EVs, we’re effectively banning them. This is all going to end up with a giant wake up call for American auto-manufacturers when the protections/tariffs are ultimately lifted and they HAVE to compete.
I think it would be great if the tariffs came with huge incentives for domestic manufacturers and motivated them to be competitive. Instead, it’s just letting them segment the market for a few years and make a killing. Who loses? The people…
This is the real reason for tarrifs. Forcing citizens into paying ridiculous prices so biliionares can circle jerk about how much more power they can get. They’re scourges and bottomless voids of resources and misery.
and the people rejoice
Data published Wednesday by ACEA found that Tesla’s car sales in the European Union, Britain and the European Free Trade Association fell to 13,863 units in May, down 27.9% year on year.
Tesla’s European market share also dropped to 1.2% from 1.8% in May 2024.
European/other than China EV makers also did well, that this and other headlines this year, intentionally obfuscate. The combination of both above numbers means overall EV growth was about 25%. 93% is non US/China.
Even before the current political situation I wouldn’t have bought a Tesla. They have a documented quality problem and not very good customer service at least outside of the US.
Why would I buy a car that is not only more likely than most to break but when it does break it’s hard to get fixed. Spare parts are notoriously hard to get hold of and you usually have to deal with Tesla directly which is a problem because they don’t have a lot of dealerships in the UK. Also they won’t come to you, so if your car won’t start you have to arrange a pickup.
They have terrible customer service in the US too. I think it’s their business model: find people who enjoy being treated like an asshole and sell them overpriced shit.
Here in the UK Musk is just seen as an idiot. Some decent European EV solutions coming along but the Chinese cars are so much better value than Tesla OR the main European makes. Couldn’t happen to a nicer megalomaniac and as a plus I love seeing the monthly SpaceX explosions
It’s not just the UK that sees his as an idiot. The world sees him this way, and that’s because he is one. Also an egomaniac.
I used to like and look up to SpaceX for the interesting stuff that they build,
but nowadays i don’t care anymore. The company can fail for all i care. Musk spoiled it.
The tipping point, for me personally, was when Musk seriously threatened to slash public spending in February this year. It shows a clear disrespect to the people, and frankly, a sociopathic attitude.
Musk had everything, lots of money, lots of fame, lots of influence, but he threw it all away when he decided to threaten the wellbeing and lifelyhood of a lot of people just so that rich assholes can make an extra buck through tax cuts.
SpaceX should be nationalized. We paid for it, it’s ours.
I don’t know why you didn’t just fund NASA properly.
Government agencies can’t bribe as good. Our politicians are whipped dogs who sell the free world for less than an F-150 a year in kickbacks.
For those maybe blissfully ignorant of car culture that’s an F-150 (the grocery getter for fragile egos) oversized pickup truck , and not some fighter jet.
Sure, just let me change the payee on this check
Who in the current admin would you like to see run it? Because one of them would if it were nationalized. Who would be your pick?
The current regime is full of ignorant buffoons but at least in that case it would normally be temporary.
In the private model where the gov pays for everything anyway, the taxpayer pays the cost of doing the thing plus whatever profit the oligarch wants to make and you have no way of switching to another oligarch should the current one becomes unacceptable. There is simply no upside to SpaceX as a private entity
It would be under NASA, but the argument is moot, since it wouldn’t happen under a MAGA Nazi administration. It will have to wait until Americans take back our government. Then we can nationalize Space X, confiscate the DOGE Goblin’s fortune, and deport him back to South Africa.
Prison will be perfectly fine for him. That or the neck trimmer.
Agreed. This system of giving out money and getting what we paid for sold back to us is fucking dumb.
I wonder what continues to motivate the uber rich to seek more wealth-you simply can’t buy any more tangible amount of happiness through material or influence after a point.
Once you have enough money, anything you do makes you money.
Elon blew 44 billion or Twitter, axed the servers, staff, and the name, and he was able to leverage that into a government job where he could kill investigations into his companies years later. You could say it’s intelligence, but I’d say it’s a combination of luck, and the resources to blow 44 billion and not have it affect you personally in any way.
Better super late than never.
HAHA
Chinese electric cars are just better. BYD is what Tesla wanted to be, but actually fulfills its promises. Plus it isn’t ran by a dictator.
Watch the RichRebuilds review of Chinese EVs. There is a lot of “make it look good” in their engineering, like massive painted brake calipers…that are a single piston. The cars probably aren’t as quality as other EVs, but the prices, specs, and niche features are very compelling. I’d definitely consider one in the US. Anything that isn’t a Tesla or a massive crossover would be great.
I uh… you sure about that dictator thing? xi jinping enters the chat
If you think Xi Jinping is dictating what BYD does with their cars then you don’t understand the fundamentals as to why China managed to attract so much foreign investment and got to where they are now in the first place.
Foreign investment was because of cheap labor and companies being subsidized by the communist government…
BYD might make a better car than Tesla, but saying that a Chinese company isn’t “under the control of Xi Jinping”, the guy who crushed Hong Kong for having too much independence and wants to do the same with Taiwan, is laughable.
but saying that a Chinese company isn’t “under the control of Xi Jinping”, the guy who crushed Hong Kong for having too much independence
Just take that sentence at face value and consider the ridiculousness of actually believing the guy alone has that amount of crushing power.
You’re just regurgitating unfounded US propaganda which, being on Lemmy, is very unfortunate to see.
the guy alone has that amount of crushing power.
Nobody of right mind takes this at face value. This isn’t a pro wrestling heavyweight championship belt, with Jinping suplexing the Hong Kong protestors.
It’s obviously as head of an autoritarian communist regime, using corona measures and a militarized police to suppress people for the extravagant act of desiring freedom from the CCP.
But even that is incorrect.
Yes, Xi Jinping is powerful as the Chairman of the party, but the communist party of China is not the military, and there is a fair amount of decentralization in decision making.
Further, the guy above goes “look at how Xi is suplexing Taiwan?!?!” even though he isn’t because guess what, he doesn’t actually have the power to do so.
Also, none of this has anything to do with the topic of EV production, which is in the hands of a private company which largely operates independently of the government, much like millions of other companies that operate in China.
Which is why I said the dude is just spewing brainless US state propaganda and Red Herring.
Further, the guy above goes “look at how Xi is suplexing Taiwan?!?!”
I think you’re the only one reading it that way. The rest of us understand that it happens within a context of an autoritarian regime.
which is in the hands of a private company which largely operates independently of the government
Independent untill the party decides they’re not independent. (Eg).
“Unfounded US propaganda”.
Are you saying China DIDN’T aggressively take over Hong Kong and all of the businesses that operated there?
Xi is the head of the government in a totalitarian, communist regime. Just because he might be “leaving BYD alone” or whatever today does not mean that couldn’t change in an instant.
The United States is its own form of screwed up and is an absolute mess. I’m not sitting over here going 'US good. China bad". I’m making the point they’re both bad in different ways.
That’s actually a bit of a myth you know. Labour in China used to be dirt cheap 30 years ago but that’s not the case now. You need experts to build cars and they demand an appropriate salary. They probably don’t get paid as much as they would in the west but they’re not being paid pennies an hour either. However the idea that China is cheap has persisted.
There’s a reason that Apple doesn’t make the iPhone there anymore. It was getting too expensive ie they were being asked to pay for a decent wage, and they weren’t prepared to.
What a downfall Tesla
Looking forward to Tesla reporting Q2 earnings next month. I assume another round of disastrous numbers paired up with some vaporware distraction. Perhaps they can keep this charade going, but at some point reality will catch up.
Is gonna go up, Elon said they’ll have full autonomous this year! /s
Just give Elon more of some new drug. /s
Good, continue with the downward spiral.
Currently only proper options for EV is either Tesla, Korean EV’s (KIA, Hyundai) or Chinese. European and japanese EV’s are imo shit at the moment. Teslas I will avoid like plague, due to Nazis. KIA’s and Hyundai’s are so hard to get, so I am really considering getting BYD, Polestar or XPeng.
Plenty of good European EVs as well. From a Porsche Taycan to a Dacia Spring, a wide selection. Including wagons/combis and vans.
The Japanese also have good ones, especially Nissan. Leaf and Ariya are decent. Honda kinda gave up and Toyota is indeed terrible, even the Lexus line is behind.
I’m still mad at Toyota because they’ve kept pushing hybrid cards instead of making great EVs.
The small Renault’s are actually more than decent EVs and can be compared to the Hyundai Inster.(With the later being the closest to a “high quality EV for everyone” I have seen. Fantastic car, small, comparable cheap, secure. They need to get a bit cheaper still,but we are getting closer)
If you are filthy rich the Porsches are decent, same goes for some of the BMW. The Nissan Arya is also okayish, so are Mercedes.
But yeah, Korea has the absolute king of the hill atm. I drive an EV6 (pre facelift). And honestly? It’s the most “fun” and “comfortable” car I ever had - and I used to have lots of expensive company cars in the past (Audi A4,A5,A6, BMW 5, Volvo), often with "lights and sirens " installed and drove Seat,Skoda,Hyundai, Volvo privately.
None of them were as fun. None of fhem were as versatile and comfortable. And funny enough I safe enormous amounts of money.
And all the downsides people worry about? So far I didn’t have any.
Charging? Absolutely no issue - beside the fact that my sparky is shit and I still don’t have a home box (but a 200 bucks mobile box off Amazon helps). Even with long distances it’s no issue - even in remote locations I had a chance to charge,often easier to find than petrol. And on regular trips it takes as much time to go to the toilet and get me a coffee. Which I would also do with petrol… So in fact I save a few minutes. Even under these circumstances I pay half compared to what I payed for petrol.
Battery issues? The car is used. So far: Zero degradation. We had it assessed by a professional company recently.
The only two issues it has: Preconditioning is somewhat random (which has been solved with the facelift) and the fact that the drivers profile is not based on the key sucks.
EV6 is probably the best in tech, like the 800V system.
Have you had the issue with iccu? They are unfortunately quite common, friend of mine had it. They will fully fix it, but it takes up to month to fix because they don’t have spare parts.
I have Seat Mii, and I also think it is best car purchase that I have ever made
The Ford Mach E is a good EV.
Only heard good things about them, but aren’t they few generation’s old now. Not that next gen is always better, but EV’s have gone quite big generational steps.
Edit: and for context I drove Seat Mii at the moment and I love it to pieces, but it works only in city, not long range.
Why’s that? I drove a Cupra Born last week, pretty decent imo. I also drove a VW ID3 and a BMW i3. So far the only European EV I didn’t like was the Audi e-tron. I haven’t driven a Korean or Chinese EV yet, so I can’t really compare. What do you prefer about them?
I currently drive Seat Mii, which is good small EV for city, but for long ranges VW and BMW are behind. Audi’s EV have been disasters. Cupras look good, but because I already have small EV, it doesn’t fit my use case .
ID’s could be ok, but they are over priced in my opinion (at least here).
Edit: for context id4’s starting price is 43k€ here in Finland. 60k€ for id7.
Edit2: Ok started looking those Chinese brands prices also if you buy them here and they are also priced in same range, so ID might be option then also
Eh, ID7 and A6 are getting there. BMW i4 ain’t bad either.
I think it also has to do with the economy, not just nazi salutes. Its a bad job market, people dont have money, so luxary cars are not going to be attractive.
Also there is hardly any reason to buy a Tesla… Volvo recharge and others are better cars, made by actual car companies with a good reputation for quality.
There are plenty of Europeans that still have money. These are aimed at the upper upper classes and people in those strata have not been feeling the economic pinch the way many of us have.
Telsa used to be a status symbol, and sexy.
But then their chief chap couldn’t seem to publicly pronounce the popular phrase “Nazi’s suck and I wish to have nothing to do with them”.
Now Telsa is an anti-status symbol.
Idk why are you being downvoted. Musk being a nazi is the last of the problems for Tesla. They had being outcompete by BYD in every measure.
Me, my friends, my colleagues are the target audience for Model 3/Y’s. I drive a Model 3 and some colleagues do as well. Pretty much all of them and myself say the same thing: The cars top the list in terms of value versus price and has the features we want and need, but we will not buy or (company) lease a Tesla (again) due to the nazi in charge. Simple as that.
At this point, people don’t even take Tesla’s into consideration anymore due to the nazi. So I would say that’s far worse than the competition with BYD.
Exactly the same for me and my circle. I got a model 3 and got at least 3 colleagues and friends to buy one after a test drive.
I won’t sell it now because it’s still a good car and I would lose a ton of money to replace it with something equivalent, but I put a fuck elon sticker on it, canceled the connectivity, avoid superchargers when possible and no longer recommend it to people.
I’m looking for a second car and used Teslas are crazy value right now but out of principle they are out of the question. Probably will go for a Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, VW ID.3 or BMW i3.
The mentioned cars are somewhat outdated.
You might also want to consider newer models like Renault 5, Skoda Elroq or Hyundai Ioniq.
Fair point, but I’m looking to buy used (i3 hasn’t been made for a few years already).
We bought a second hand i3 (2014) model for my SO to drive to work and back (short distances). The range is objectively horrible (about 100 km), but sufficient for my SO’s needs. Overall, we love the car! It’s so much fun to drive, and very efficient due to its light carbon fiber chassis. The car does everything we expect of it and we run it very cheap.
Such a waste BMW didn’t iterate on the i3/i8 sooner. They would’ve knocked Tesla out of the water before they could even learn how to swim.
That’s exactly our requirement, if budget allows even getting the 90Ah model for 150km. Plus I love the looks, weird and futuristic. Thanks for sharing!
it definitely has to do when musk being a nazi.
Tesla used to be the brand, the good quality car, the one that you want to get.
(at least that was how the public saw it, car affictionados don’t count)
now it’s just cringe
Tesla has NEVER been the good quality car. Ever.
Tesla was the techy car. The fast car. The fun car. The virtue signaling car. The convienent car. Lots of things, but they have never been the good quality car.
And in the US we just block foreign options because it is gov policy to artificially support specific corporations.
the country of free market capitalism…
I don’t think that has ever been true, really. Nor should it be, Laissez Faire is a trainwreck waiting to happen, probably literally and figuratively.
Textbooks will tell you that the USA, and other countries like China and Russia, are a regulated “Market System” which in some markets teeters on strict Oligopoly.
it’s only true in propaganda.
Oddly libertarians never acknowledge that market leaders ask for theses things. The biggest threat to the free market are capitalists themselves.
They know, they just have too much invested in their 401k.
American libertarianism is just a form of nationalism mixed with a strong dose of “don’t nose into muh life”
There are 2 types of libertarians.
One group is comprised of people who think the government should basically keep the military going, and handle foreign relations when that doesn’t impede private citizens.
The other group is just Republicans who don’t like being called Republicans.
I think that’s the invisible hand of the market. The visible part is the products you don’t get to have.
