Normalizing fascism.
The sooner we accept we’ve reached that stage, the sooner we can do something about it.
I’m not holding my breath.
Start calling them Nazis and Nazi sympathizers, to start.
Honestly, the simple act of doing that has calmed a lot of the dissonance in my brain.
This is every fucking conversation I have with my right leaning friends at this point.
Cut them off.
Good idea, but how do you then denazify them? There’s way too many Nazis to just “cut them off”, it’d be like living in a rural town without using a car.
Not to say that Nazis are good, but that’s a primarily defensive tactic, where we should be using offensive tactics like propaganda and sabotage. You’re not living in the America you knew. The enemy surrounds us entirely and we have to understand that.
Please yes, isolate yourself for the cult
The cult of… Anti-nazis?
Genius.
No no no you don’t understand. It’s the cult of people who call anybody who does a weird salute or mildly dislikes Jewish people or brown people and wants to declassify women as people with rights as a Nazi. Don’t you see it’s both sides that are extremist. You’re just giving in to left wing propaganda…
~the centrist point of view
I mean really they are all fascists so really it would be some kind of anti-fascist movement.
🤔
Which is why the right has been vilifying the term antifa for the last 6-8 years. That way they can be primed to kill anti-fascists without having to admit to themselves that it means they’re fascist.
Presumably they have better friends and family to associate with.
Sorry, but red shirt does have a point. People have been called a Nazi so many times because of small disagreements that now that we have musk make heil hitler signs, people actually wonder if he’s really a neo nazi or not.
People should keep the “nazi” label for the real assholes
Voicing concerns as the republicans slowly claimed their way towards fascism is not the same as an imagined wolf.
The allegory would be watching a wolf circle the chickens but idiots dismissing it because then wolf hasn’t killed any chickens yet.
But that didn’t work as well for wolf sympathizer like you.
Mostly what I see are pedants who keep arguing that actually it’s a coyote circling the chickens, and that calling it a wolf de-legitimizes actually crying wolf, and that wolves had a very specific platform, and all the while the coyote is getting closer to the fucking henhouse.
Shut up Nazi
Exactly, thanks for the great example
by your definition words lose meaning when they’re overused.
if that’s the case then why has the “n” word never lost its strength as an oppressive word?
I think it’s because words don’t lose meaning. I think it’s because Nazis brainwash people into thinking labeling Nazis as Nazis is wrong and should be used to label real assholes. problem with that is that Nazis come in many forms.
So…I’ll keep calling Nazis, Nazis, and you keep disagreeing with me.
why has the “n” word never lost its strength as an oppressive word?
Tbf, it has to an extent, hence the “A” VS “hard R” distinction. The power was taken back as they say through repeated usage, some would call overuse, by the community who is allowed to say it. Other communities still aren’t allowed to say it sure, but it did contextually lose power through overuse.
try using it sometime, tell us if it’s lost some of its power.
You don’t know if I’m allowed to or not. Oh wait I forgot everyone on the internet is a white american man, right?
go on then. use it right now… let’s see if it still works!
Ok, here
This isn’t the same as The Boy Cried Wolf.
Unless you’re talking about a version of the story where there really were wolves every time he cried wolf and nobody believed him until the wolves were eating people.
Still not a perfect analogy but much closer.
Red shirt needs merely to turn around and see the brown shirt with the swastika. There isn’t a lot of grey area for interpretation of this comic, the artist is being very clear.
Turns out he was just playing in a WWII movie
A production of The Producers. Singing Springtime for Hitler.
Isnt that sam smith’s song? Dancing with a nazi
It’s sad but he’s not wrong. Nazi has been used on so many people I’ve lost count and people wonder why it has lost effect
Do you think it plausible that actual white supremacist Neo Nazis might call other people Nazis, despite being fully aware that they are not, simply to further muddle the issue? A sort of, “I know you are, but what am I?” defense, that most of us master somewhere in early childhood?
Yeah I get that they would try to make noise to hide in. But I imagine that is not the majority of cases where someone is labeled as a nazi. Note this was from 2010, long before Trump entered politics.
And this isn’t to say I like, support or side with them it’s just people ignore the term after a while of hearing it everywhere for all kinds of things that don’t fit
No, he’s still wrong. Even if he has been conditioned to ignore the term because of overuse of the term, he’s still wrong.
The people who ignored the boy the third time he cried wolf were wrong. The proof they were wrong is that they lost their sheep. The moral of the story isn’t “don’t listen when little boys cry wolf three times and the first two times turn out to be false.” The moral is “don’t cry wolf when there is no wolf or people will stop listening to you.”
So you can argue that the people who conditioned red shirt not too look were wrong, i.e. “the boy who cried Nazi”, but in this case red shirt is most definitely wrong.
That is exactly what I am trying to convey, thank you.
Red shirt is wrong for ignoring the pointing person. The person pointing out the nazi is right. I am trying to argue that the person pointing out the nazi and the people who conditioned red shirt to the point of ignoring a legitimate cry are not the same and ultimately did not help things.
Except there were wolves the whole time. Tf does the boy do when there is actually a wolf the whole time and noone believes him?
Yeah. I’m ignoring the strawman part of the argument that the people calling wolf for the past 80 years were always lying, since it doesn’t affect red shirt’s wrongness.
Found the Nazi
Proof? Or is disagreement with you enough?
Crying wolf…again.
WOah woah wOAH, YOU CaN’t be USinG leVelHEAdEDNEsS and logIC HeRe On lEMMY! How Dare yOu!
WE’RE ovER herE Trying TO larp thAt eVeryONE wE CALl A NAzi IS a LegiTImaTE, GeRmaN-GrowN, ArmbanD-weaRIng aCtuaL nAzi, EvEn THough thEY said SOmeThiNg INnoCuOUs lIKE THeY don’T lIKe SEx gEaR ON dISplaY IN PARAdES!
HoLd oN wHilE I gRaB My LiSt Of *pHoBe TerMs I cAn CaLL YoU!
This people we said where moving towards nazism are now doing Nazi salutes.
Clearly it is our fault for being smart enough to see what was happening and sounding the alarm!
It’s take a true smooth brain to always find the way to blame the intellectuals for their own abhorent behavior.
I’m guessing the next stage here is blaming us for why you and them became Nazi. We clearly gave you no other choice. You and them are the real victims here.
The joke is exactly that the “argument” you’re using has been abused to such a point by American “centrists” and the even more far right types that per their definition the only possible way to be a Nazi is to have been a member of the National Socialist Party Of The German Worker during the period when it was committing the Holocaust.
You saw a lot of this shit from, for example, supporters of Zionism, and now you’re seeing an even more ridiculous version of it from far-right muppets trying to excuse Elon’s looks-like-Hitler’s repeated salute as not Nazi.
Normal people who are not arguing in bad faith will have a definition for the threshold of when a person, party or nation’s actions might be considered as Nazism which is far less restricted than “only those who were the murderers in the Holocaust qualify”.
The image depicts a guy in a nazi unform, doing a nazi salute. It’s a nazi.
Not only that, but the guy wearing the uniform (god knows what for) is talking to someone. Presumably a friend, which means he is also a Nazi!
The guy being warned over? Also a Nazi!
The guy warning the other? Also a Nazi for not stepping up and actually doing something!
The guy drawing attention and propaganda to the Nazis through rendering in comic form? You guessed it, also a Nazi!
The guy sharing said propaganda here? Also a Nazi!
The ones discussing it instead of actually doing something about it? Nazis as well.
The mods that allowed it on Lemmy? Bunch of Nazis!
I’d continue but I am willing to bet you did not see that coming
I know, it’s the response from red shirt. He doesn’t listen to the guy calling out the nazi, explaining how it’s probably just overexaggeration.
It’s similar to the ending of the boy who cried wolf. It’s not that most people like wolves, or side with wolves, or think wolves aren’t a threat. It’s the person that that yells wolf is ignored when the real deal comes around.
I don’t like nazis. At all. But there is certainly an argument that the term had been used too loosely (I was just called one in this comment section ffs) and now people are making nazi salutes in DC and are being ignored.
You were called a nazi because its 36 and youre waffling about what is and isnt a nazi
This isn’t a case of the boy crying wolf. You fucks have been warned and have ignored the warnings. Now here we are.
Jon Stewart called out the dilution of labels like racist etc in his closing speech of the 2010 Rally to Restore Sanity. It was a problem all the way back then.
By the time you started yelling about the real dangers, the boy who cried first had already came and went. The sheep were fine. The boy grew up, got a decent paying job amd moved out of the state. Another boy came by yelling the same thing. Still no wolves. Sheep still fine. Repeat more times than you can count.
It’s not your fault, but it’s stupid as hell to pretend that people didn’t start taking those labels less seriously due to overuse.
What about people calling anyone who disagrees with them or any mod that bans them nazis?
Usually theyre right
Found another Nazi!
No we all said watch the fuck out the nazis are buying up everything and even wrote a nazi playbook. The fuckin wolf was real all along. Fucking morons just decided to ignore. The boy lied in the story. He didn’t lie here.
You personally? Sure. But there have been people online misusing the word (and similar things) for fucking ages, going back at least as far as 2010.
This goes back a lot farther than the last election campaign, farther back than Trump’s first “reign”, farther back than his first campaign even.
Background on Jon Stewart for those unaware of him
Jon Stewart has been out of the public eye for a long time, so I expect there’s some people around unaware of his work. Did a comedy news show for years where he tore into the bullshit going on in the world, in the news, and in news orgs like Fox hiding behind a false “both sides” narrative back when they still cared enough to fake it. He got Crossfire cancelled when they were stupid enough to invite him on for an interview and were shocked that he wasn’t willing to be a comedian on a show that claimed to be real news and he instead systematically and thoroughly called them out as the travesty they were.
Jon Fucking Stewart called out the dilution of labels through overuse in his closing speech at the Rally to Restore Sanity in 2010. The rally done as a reaction to the Tea Party rally in D.C.
That is to highlight that the “boy who cried wolf” shit was happening all the way back then and was already a big problem.
“If we amplify everything we hear nothing. There are terrorists and racists and Stalinists and theocrats but those are titles that must be earned. You must have the resume. Not being able to distinguish between real racists and Tea Partiers or real bigots and Juan Williams and Rick Sanchez is an insult, not only to those people but to the racists themselves who have put in the exhausting effort it takes to hate–just as the inability to distinguish terrorists from Muslims makes us less safe not more. The press is our immune system. If we overreact to everything we actually get sicker–and perhaps eczema.”
People didn’t get the fucking message, which gave cover for the real racists and nazis to slither around and significantly helped to get us where we are today.
Where an over rich manchild clearly on some sort of substances can give two half assed sieg heils, and then follow it up with the most half assed excuse during a fucking presidential inauguration and instead of being tackled by security and hauled the fuck off never to be seen again, people are sitting around giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Nazis, fascists, ect were a problem as early as 2010. All the people who are doing nazi shit now, i grew up with them, they were always like that
Not saying they never existed or they weren’t a problem. I’m trying to emphasize that overuse of those labels towards the undeserving has allowed the true problem people (actual nazis, fascists) to get by with the benefit of the doubt.
Look, at this point I’m not sure what to say except to lean back on lived experiences of myself and a number of friends.
Some specific “my friend is black” style examples from my social group, if you’ll pardon me:
- racial/ethnic minority who is also lgbt+
- one of the most politically active people I know, involved in countless public works and community supporting projects, who at one point worked teaching kids stuck in juvie skills they could use to make money legally once released
- union organizer and rep, can’t even drop that shit for a game of DnD, sidetracking the plot to try and unionize side characters
- multiple and diverse PoC
I’ve seen each individual there and people like them, be called all sorts of horrible labels (mainly online) that do not fit them or even the worst possible interpretation of the opinion they were espousing at the time. I’ve seen them called capitalist bootlickers, nazis, racists.
One who was only stopped from joining the US Antifa movement by being overseas taking classes in Australia called a fascist.
African American man who grew up in the roughest schools in our state be called a fucking white supremacist for talking about issues in the black community.
Gay men be called homophobes.
Lesbians active in the local LGBT+ community, who provided safe housing and care for a FtM after his top surgery, and who forced a local highschool to offer legally required support services for an ASD genderfluid student, called transphobes.
Again, the wolves absolutely fucking exist, have existed for a long time, and there have been plenty of people shouting about them. But there have been even more, louder, people jumping at shadows for just as long.
Doing the equivalent of “Well it’s your fault for not heeding our warnings!” is short sighted, ignores lived experiences from a wide variety of people, and most importantly does absolutely nothing for positive change in the current scenario.
You can’t just keep going “I told you so!” or “nuh uh!” at people and expect to gain allies.
I get the frustration, but save that energy for the real targets. Attacking our own for not being as prescient as some others is wasted effort and furthers the goals of those in power.
Aknowledging that there is a reasonable explanation for why people don’t take these labels seriously doesn’t lose you anything. It gives you extra knowledge amd understanding that can be used for more effective forward momentum.
Don’t just call Elon a nazi. Anyone who could be convinced by those words alone already has been.
Do something like link this comparison gif:
and approach from a different angle.
Ive been called a nazi too, but I don’t let that stop me.
Problem is Im autistic and a political radical, me speaking alienates people
It hasn’t lost its effect. It never had an effect to begin with on the people that this cunt was sieg heiling because they are happy to downplay the very real and very obvious fascist elements of the American right. Saying the word Nazi has lost its effect makes this sound like the issue is one of semantics, as though if that word hadn’t (wholly and justifiably) been used so much in recent decades that people would now wake up and go, ‘Oh fuck, this guy is actually really bad’. But they wouldn’t. Because fascists don’t think other fascists are bad.
Bullshit. We’ve been calling so many people Nazis precisely because they actually turned out to be Nazis. Every single fucking one of them.
If you didn’t see it, it’s because you were deliberately turning a blind eye.
When I saw the headlines about musk, frankly I figured it wasn’t worth even looking at. The Trump show had begun, everything was going to be kind of accurate but maybe overemphasized at times. I imagined it was a weird wave because of his ketamine problem and he was probably high as usual.
Then I saw the clip.
Same, I saw the still image and thought, “oh this is like where they grab a still of them waving then are like ‘look! Obama doing the Nazi salute!’”
Nope. Video was one of the most emphatic Nazi salutes I’ve ever seen. Twice!
I’m a little worried about the distraction this is causing, distraction away from taking real action that can help. Like, felon and nazi are real and useful predictive attributes, but we kind of already knew some of that.
I feel like a better focus would be on taking action - donation, volunteerism, things your class valedictorian would do - to counter actual harmful or evil changes that are made in actual legislation. It sucks to have to prop up things that make America actually great ourselves because narrow minded politicians cut public funding. But to keep these things alive, we have to step up.
We already made our predictions known. Deep down we already know this isn’t convincing anybody new. The next step is taking action. Local non-profits want to hear from you. If it’s a cause that you think might be threatened, and you care about it, you might be able to help.
There was no way we could tell he was a Nazi 😔
Who amongst us hasn’t mistakenly made what looks like a Nazi salute, twice, in front of a crowd whilst doing a speech, been wrongfully interpreted as an AfD supporter after having said “I support the AfD” or made posts claiming that Jews do bad things which were unfairly seen as antisemitic?
It could happen to anybody!
/s
That guy doesn’t look like Joe Biden
There’s always that one commenter, eh.
Intentional Stonetoss expression at the end?
I was thinking the same thing
I’m glad I’m not the only one! It’s so good!
Right? The guy’s nose disappears, it’s gotta be intentional
Meanwhile bro on his way to a reenactment of The producers: Springtime for Hitler: The musical
I have changed nothing, and like a lightswitch every fucking post in almost every goddammit community seems to be about nazis and us politics to some new extreme degree.
Jesus fucking christ. Doomscrolling and endlessly worrying about it all is fucking toxic as shit. It is what it is. If people are so concerned and think it needs to change then get off the fucking phone and go DO something about it, or stop posting this kind of shit.
Gets so fucking old so fast.
I have changed nothing,
Yeah, it’s almost like this isn’t about you. It’s almost like it’s about a major world power openly embracing fascism and neo nazis.
Get off the internet if it bothers you.
Well, go do something about the Nazis and people will stop talking about them. If you want a feed to the world outside of your head, thay means dealing what what everyone else is talking about.
You can always just go jerk off in the shower and STFU about it
I don’t understand why you’re being downvoted at all. The internet fucking sucks and it’s steadily getting worse. It’s all so negative. I grew up with the internet and learned to never feed the trolls. But seems like an entire generation weren’t taught this. It’s like an endless cycle of trolls/bots posting inflammatory, controversial and toxic shit then people losing their minds over it and circle jerking over their moral superiority.
Can’t we just go back to sending racist and derogatory Xbox live messages to people who beat you in a video game FFS.
Found the 1930s era German that said “it is what it is”.
I’m sorry, we’re you in DC this week knocking down the white house doors and throwing molotovs?
Right. Shut up. You ain’t doing jack shit either.
Discussion raises awareness. Awareness leads to action.
At least I’m not some loser entirely unaware of what’s happening.
Sometimes I can’t understand why I’m so joyless and cynical, then I read some of the comments on Lemmy and feel a lot better about myself!
It was literally the nazis who got centrists to “water-down” the word nazi.
They’re still working on it.
what does this guy have against nazi’s?
The nazi’s what?
He can nazi what the other guy’s saying.
ah bc he hates jews
