Suck it micro USB, mini USB, and lightning! 🪫🔋
Please do this for things like rechargeable electric shavers and toothbrushes as well.
Those, especially the toothbrush, need to be more water resistant. Electric teethbrush should be entirely waterproof, and I don’t think USB-C can do that.
I have seen toothbrushes with USB-C, they just connect to the docking station. Which makes sense IMO, you wouldn’t want to plug and unplug your toothbrush every time you want to use it.
I wonder, would this law also cover if, say, the company manufacturing the toothbrush decided not to supply a power cord with the dock, and just stuck some proprietary cable port on it (not even a DC barrel jack or anything like that)?
The benefit is that by being standardized, there will be less proprietary cords and adapters. And the capability of USB-C should be adequate for sometime with the power and data transfer.
One issue, is that not all USBC cords are of the same quality. I found this recently when trying to find a cord that can be used for an external SSD, and video for a monitor. Some cords worked, the rest did not. All the cords could be used for charging, but after that, all bets are off.
The problem is that USB-C is a plug not a standard even in charging some cables won’t do as much power as others (though at least they communicate that to the power source).
I do however fully support the total USB-C rollout. In my everyday carry there’s now only one plug (2 USB-C one USB-A) and some cables that I can charge everything with, my laptop, my phone my Powerbank and even those few devices that are still USB-B micro (I just carry one USB-A to micro cable).
I bought a really nice, high quality, very fast charging and data transfer cable, and there’s one device I own that it will not charge at all. My assumption is that it probably doesn’t have a charging control chip or something else required to work with that cable. It doesn’t work with any other USB-C to C cables I own either. It has to be charged with the USB-A to C cables included in the box
USB C cables have been all over the shop since the beginning, and chargers. I remember even 5 years back the problems they had. Part of that is the cables and chargers are “active” in the sense they negotiate charge rates and other functionality between either end and if one end is dumb or doesn’t respond properly you get the 5V 2A default. On the other hand if you have a USB C 4.0 lightning cable and two compliant devices then potentially you could be powering 2 monitors, keyboard, mouse, wifi, a graphics card even AND charging through one cable. It’s actually incredible when it works properly.
cables and chargers are “active” in the sense they negotiate charge rates and other functionality
Just so you know “active cable” already has a separate meaning: They repeat the USB signals somewhere in the middle for a longer transmission distance.
I think the better idea is to pick up the terminology from the USB-IF, they speak of electronical marking, or e-markers in the cables. It’s usually a small chip integrated in one of the plug assemblies.
will ti 84 calculators have to follow this?
I haven’t read the legislation, but I get the thrust of it. They want to standardize cellular devices and also cut down on electronic waste. If it’s specifically for cellular devices, then no it won’t affect TI products. If it’s more generally to cut back on electronic waste, then yes it will affect them.
“Starting today, all new mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, speakers, keyboards and many other electronics sold in the EU will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C charging port,” the EU Parliament wrote on social media X.
seems like probably yes!
yay
1.1. handheld mobile phones; 1.2. tablets; 1.3. digital cameras; 1.4. headphones; 1.5. headsets; 1.6. handheld videogame consoles; 1.7. portable speakers; 1.8. e-readers; 1.9. keyboards; 1.10. mice; 1.11. portable navigation systems; 1.12. earbuds; 1.13. laptops.Seems no, but I may be wrong.
Now if only we can standardize cables or at least labeling. We went from everything working wherever it would plugin to everything plugging in but who knows if it will work
Imo they should at the very least standardize some color coding and labeling. All charging-only cables are yellow, data cables are blue. Something like that.
Yeah, or since people are going to want their cute colored cables, do colored stripes on the connectors or something. Even on the metal connector itself, but not on the inside like old USB-A connectors.
Can we bring back the charging as well, and not just the USB cable… Oh, and while you’re at it, screws instead of glue, to replace batteries would be awesome.
Thx!
Just get a Fairphone, with every module screwed into place. Except the battery, you can just take that out by hand.
That’s true, but if the EU could force every phone maker to make the battery replaceable by the customer this would be a huuuuuuge step in the right direction and reduce electronic waste.
It’s already enforced. All devices sold in the EU from 2027 will need a user-replaceable battery.
We’re going to see some manufacturers come out with those devices sooner, though. I hope.
Also, the batteries need to be available at a reasonable price to the user.
Or they’ll start scheming
no keep the glue please. I love that my phone’s back just came off on its own just because it was hot outside and the glue melted away. it was fun and exciting!
You must have been in death valley or something because the glue doesn’t melt into like 80° C
the phone heats with use as well. but yeah Samsung is known for its high build quality. it’s not like they made devices that explode or anything.
There’s a rule coming into effect in 2027 that enforces user replaceable batteries for devices in the EU. https://www.pcmag.com/news/eu-smartphones-must-have-user-replaceable-batteries-by-2027
Noice. I am definitely waiting until 2028ish before upgrading my phone, if not a bit longer.
Based AF eu
while 2027 is better than nothing, I still wonder why it took them so long. Glue in smartphones has been around for probably a decade now.
Also, I think, anything that has a battery, should be user replacable… even teeny-tiny earbuds.
Totally agree! It’s seemingly gotten worse recently too. My phone is 5 years old and I was still able to replace the battery at home but it took special tools and a hair dryer. The newest Pixels and Galaxy phones look impossible to do with my current skillset.
Things like Fairphone and the HMD Skyline should be the norm going forward.
To allow the manufacturers to adapt and phase out?
For USB sure… it’s kinda “newish”. But, I mean, they could’ve intervened much sooner, when glue became the standard for assembling phones.
The delay on USB was to let the industry standardize on its own. The EU hinted to all manufacturers that they needed to standardize. Then it outright stated. Then because Apple was run by pricks, the EU had to legislate USB-C to force it.
Now, when something better comes along (like when mini USB gave way to micro USB, then to USB-C), there will need to be new legislation to allow that connector.
There’s always an implementation period with these things, also with the USB thing, to allow companies to build and sell phones that are already in the pipeline. Expect, just as with the USB thing, replaceable batteries to become a common sight quite soon and ubiquitous by 2027. You can already get quite decent smartphones with replaceable batteries but it’s the usual suspects Fairphone, Gigaset, and (at least one model of) Samsung, those would also exist without the regulation. The “oh shit they actually passed it we’ll need to re-engineer things” models from everyone else still aren’t on the market.
And before anyone brings it up: Yes, you can make them waterproof.
Waterproof
Strongly agree!
Looking back, I suspect this was only an argument to make them hard to repair, as always, just worded in a sense like it’d benefit the customer.
FFS, just add some rubber… We’ve used rubber in condoms for centuries (kinda) succesfully, what made them think glue’d be better… I ain’t gonna put glue on my ding-dong, if that’s what they’re after all these years.
I suspect this was only an argument to make them hard to repair, as always
They don’t mind the benefit, for sure. But as somebody who worked in manufacturing support jobs up until a couple years ago, I’m 90% confident it’s just faster and cheaper to glue them. Probably easier to automate too. Again it just comes down to money.
Just thinking of the scale of R&D for something like a flagship phone, there are a LOT of person-hours dedicated to manufacturability.
Does this law allow for any standards progression or is it USB-c forever?
Hell to the yeah!
Only suck it lightning. It still allows standard chargers like micro USB and mini USB
Are you sure? The EU parliament explicitly mentions USB C as the new mandatory standard.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX%3A32022L2380
USB C is mentioned in annex Ia and as an example in articles 11 and 12. As I understand previous articles, it is possible to use other standards that satisfy citeria from article 9.
Open standard W
Don’t celebrate until the next version of USB comes out. Will this force everyone to adopt the newest version always or cling to the oldest?
We transitioned from USB Micro B to USB-C.
that was before this law, so quite irrelevant to the question.
It’s very unlikely that the C-type port is changing anytime soon. Most devices will stay on whatever underlying USB version that the manufacturer deems adequate for that device.
As long as it uses the physical type c port it’s all good. Not that I care. USB got faster and faster and I use it less and less over the years.
Why are you bringing this up like it hasn’t been discussed thousands of times? Like it hasn’t been stated (and cleared) in this very post?
If only you didn’t have to pay royalties for using USB.
Not actually true. Probably something made up by Apple so they could continue to charge you extra for their proprietary chargers
I think what bugged my memory was that you have to pay for a Vendor ID.
But you do need to pay for a Vendor ID, you can’t just YOLO it?
You do‽ I had no idea. And it’d be great if the standard for USB-C was more than form only.
Now for those swappable batteries
That’s actually the next goal
And make all power tool batteries compatible.
Including cars.
Drive in, swap non-proprietary batteries with an autoloader, drive out. Done.
One of the benefits of EVs is we can get rid of a lot of infrastructure. Everywhere already has electrical so home and destination chargers are a minor add on and it’s only superchargers that are new infrastructure. Meanwhile the entire gasoline and oil refining, distribution, and tens of thousands of gas stations can just go away, along with their associated pollution.
Swappable batteries may sound cool but they’re less edficient plus now we have to build up a huge new set of infrastructure agai, we have to standardize batteries, and we can’t build them into structural parts. The only real advantage is speed but that’s not much advantage if you need to drive somewhere. I’ve never had to charge more than 25 minutes at a supercharger, so swapping a battery is only convenient if it’s at most ten minutes more away. Then you’re also assuming there will be more more battery and charger advances, such as those solid state batteries that a couple vendors claim are already in production, such as 800v charging that a few vehicles already can do, such as the latest Superchsrgers that can charge faster than any car can accept so far, or the semi chargers that have a few built out.
Long before you could build out a huge new infrastructure for seappable batteries and standardize cars around it, we’ll already have charging improvements that will make seappables irrelevant. You could argue they already are irrelevant in some areas
While 25 mins doesn’t sound terrible you have to consider throughput. Long lines, waiting for chargers could become an issue if adoption takes off, and if I ever drove by a set of chargers that was full up and more people waiting that’d probably put me off from buying one.
Maybe but so far:
- I usually charge overnight at home
- I’ve never waited in line at a supercharger.
The destination chargers at work do get a line but we coordinate over slack so you never have to actually wait.
The trick is to get those home chargers deployed everywhere. This is what actually decided me on the futilebess of swappable batteries. Almost everyone could use a level 1 charger, but even a full level 2 charger is the same as a stove circuit or an air condioner. It’s just not a big deal for most people’s electrical service and level 1 can be anywhere. Look at how difficult it’s been to get these deployed despite them being so much cheaper and simpler than what you’re proposing. How will we possibly spend tens to hundreds of billions and decades to build out swappable battery infrastructure if a few billion in charging circuits to mostly existing service is so difficult?
Who benefits from seappable battery infrastructure? Really it’s mostly the same companies that profit from gasoline infrastructure. I’m convinced many proponents are just these companies wanting to continue business as usual. However with plugins, they don’t need to exist
You make some good points, but may I say from a single viewpoint.
I can’t physically charge a car at home.
I work from home and travel to customers - most are hours away and I (usually) can’t charge at their office.
Hence, I don’t have an electric car and my next purchase will probably be a self-charging hybrid because I need to recharge / refuel on the journey - hence quickly.
So, in my case, the only way I can go full-electric is with a short charge (/ battery swap) at the places that currently sell fossil fuel, which are becoming battery charging stations (they already have AC mains, so no new infrastructure required).
I can’t physically charge a car at home. … and I (usually) can’t charge at their office.
Certainly this is key. Your car is sitting unused for hours at these locations, so even a relatively slow charge would be convenient. We definitely have work to do deploying these everywhere.
My point is more that every workplace, almost every home already has sufficient electrical service to charge for most car uses. We have the technology and it’s naturally broken down into many smaller less expensive projects. It’s much easier to build this out than to create an entirely new infrastructure around disposable batteries, redefine all cars and then scale out. And the technology already exists. But we still have to do it
I agree with you. I charge at home weekly. I expect to have enough solar soon that I’ll charge whenever the car is at home and the sun is up
When doing long (2 days of driving) trips I haven’t had any trouble getting a charge. High speed DC chargers had few queues (I had to wait 5 minutes once) and motels have usually given me parking near a power point. I’m in Australia so over night gives me 8 hrs * 240V * 10A = 19.2kWh which is usually enough to get to the next fast charger
Swappable batteries might be nice but I doubt they’d be profitable (with home charging) with most just using it to swap end of life batteries for better ones
They’d be ok for people living in apartments or otherwise with no charging at home, but better would be charging in carparks at work
It is great until the ownership and business model comes into consideration.
Works fine for reusable bottles here.
This sounds great until you’ve had to repair an old car.
Everything rusts, warps, etc. The same things that make it hard to change your brakes will make it hard to change the battery pack, and you’re expecting a robot to do it for you (and fast!).
There were companies built on this idea. I think they’ve all gone under at this point.
The things that seize do so because they are infrequently operated/removed so I don’t see that being the main issue with this.
It still ain’t happening any time soon though…
Aside from not having to charge I think the biggest benefit to this would be charging the packs off peak to even out grid load, or when there is excess solar etc.
And range just dropped by half. Going somewhere without a loader? Have fun charging way more often.
Would still be nice for road trips in the civilized world though.
They have gas stations in the middle of nowhere as long as there’s enough people with cars. Not saying swappable battery facilities aren’t more difficult than gas station infrastructure, but range matters a whole lot less when you can swap a battery in under five minutes.
I’ve never needed more than 25 minutes at a supercharger and that time is improving every year. We’ll probably be on par long before we could standardize swappables and get that infrastructure build out everywhere
That is something that I wish would come true. This would also open EVs to the industry in some new ways. Currently it kinda sucks if you have machines that have to be able to run the whole day without big interruptions. When you’re able to just swap the batteries in like 5 Minutes this machines don’t have to rely on fossil fuels that much and are open to be replaced by electric ones.
What I’m thinking about are machines like tractors for farming. During the summer it happens that they are running for 8+ hours without interruptions. Building a battery this big will be quite challengening. However, if you’re able to swap out the batteries after like 2 hours and then continue with work you effectively solved one of the biggest problems with not that much of a hassle.
I think another challenge for farming equipment would also be the uneven terrain, risk of things coming up and piercing or shorting the battery, and also overheating. The first one can be fixed by installing a metal plate like Tesla did after cars kept blowing up. The overheating part might be a bit more tricky. I suppose an air conditioner dedicated to the battery would work alright.
The other thing is, using it day in and day out, from sunrise til sunset or even later, will probably wreak havoc on the battery health. I know EVs in general suffer from this, too, but I feel like it’s even worse for farming equipment, because you know they’ll get a let of extreme use, whereas a lot of people with EVs might only use it for a commute into the city, or a trip to the shops
One final thing, just based off the farmers I know (used to live in the country), a lot of them, maybe even the vast majority, have no interest in upgrading until they have to. If it works, it works. Anything new might not work as well, and require precious time to learn how to use well or properly. They tend to skew towards the older generation, and emissions just aren’t really a concern. Since EV fires tend to make the news a lot of the time, if they’ve got a perception that getting an electric tractor might cause a bushfire and burn their entire farm down, even if that’s very unlikely, and maybe even more likely with a diesel, I don’t think you’ll find them very willing
(This is specifically in regards to Australian farmers I’ve known, perhaps farms elsewhere are smaller, or farmers elsewhere a bit more willing to take upgrades)
These are all design constraints that need to be taken into account. Most EVs these days have heating and cooling on the battery pack, for the reasons you mention. Adequate protection for it is also certainly solvable.
Extended use is a more challenging need. I’ll assume for a moment that the machinery uses as much power as an EV at highway speed, although I’m pulling that assumption out of nowhere. That would mean a comparable battery only lasts ~5 hours, and you need it to last 15+ (with a full charge happening overnight). Farm machinery is already very heavy - would the extra 4,000lbs for a triple-size battery be a solution? What about a battery trailer that is easily swapped? That could also create a different form of vendor lock-in, just like your power tools. I really doubt the same machinery is used all year long. Branded batteries are an effective way to keep customers from jumping ship on their next purchase.
Does the same machinery have to run all at once, or is this just how things have always been done?
These ideas obviously have problems, not the least of which is running enough electricity to the farms. But it’s just engineering a design to meet the needs/use cases. I’m sure that John Deere, CAT, etc have all had conversations on the matter. I haven’t seen them announce anything yet, though. That could mean they can’t do it yet, they aren’t ready to announce anything yet, or simply that they don’t feel it to be more profitable.
Given Deere’s infamous lock-in and the repairs needed for ICE, that doesn’t surprise me.
The other thing is, using it day in and day out, from sunrise til sunset or even later, will probably wreak havoc on the battery health. I know EVs in general suffer from this, too, but I feel like it’s even worse for farming equipment, because you know they’ll get a let of extreme use, whereas a lot of people with EVs might only use it for a commute into the city, or a trip to the shops
That’s certainly a problem I didnt thought about. Driving farming away from being forced to use fossil fuels devinetively is one hell of a challenge and I still have zero Idea on how to achieve this in some practical way.
Also I can only agree with you. Where I live the attitude that you should use something as long as it runs devinetively applies.
Yes and no. No need to hot swap massive EV batteries. Rapid is fast enough. But yes so the EV can be upgraded. The batteries go obsolete quicker than they degrade. So make it so we can swap the batteries and keep the rest running. In fact, just right-to-repair the whole car. In fact, the whole everything!
Hot Swapping batteries is actually surprisingly good for the life of the battery if done well.
Rapid charging the battery does do permenant damage over time especially if you fast charge every time. Whereas if you can hot swap a battery and have a suitable stockpile of them you can trickle charge the battery over a couple of hours instead of 30 mins and prolong the overall lifespan of the battery. Even slowing down the charge rate to 1 hour reduces wear on the battery significantly. Plus, without time pressure from a customer, more time could be taken to replace damaged cells or blocks in a battery so that one pack will more effectively use the whole battery up instead of throwing away perfectly good cells.
See, for me, I rapid charge like once a month. All the rest of the time I use my home charger or even a granny lead. 10A granny charging is absolutely fine overnight. But for the size of the E-Berlingo, the battery is a bit small and I know all kind of new batteries are coming. More kWh for the same weight/size, less degradation, safer, etc etc. If I knew the car was designed with battery replacement in mind, I’d worry a lot less about it being obsoleted prematurely. These cars are all black boxed stuck together. It’s not built with repairing and upgrading in mind.
@jabjoe
At least ‘some’ minimal standardisation so we can exercise the #righttorepair
@DrownedRats @technologyExactly. I want things, especially expensive things, built to be repaired and upgraded. Not vendor locked and with built in obsolescence.
The batteries don’t live in isolation. There are other pieces that are dependent, whether for basic function or for calibration.
Example: Chevy issued a recall for mislabeling some Bolts as N2.1 vs N2.2. The fix is a sharpie to fix the label, and “reprogramming the Hybrid Powertrain Control Module 2”. I could find no information on either of these chemistries. Dropping in a LiFePO4 would require at least the same, and possibly more.
Now, if you’re suggesting simply swapping a matching replacement part (obsolete as it might be), then I’m on board with that
Oh totally, I have a E-Berlingo which basically an ICE converted to an EV, so there is all kind of compromises.
But batteries do improve and an old existing EV can be improved battery. Example: https://evsenhanced.com/aftermarket-battery/
But the economics is much harder if batteties aren’t unique to each EV. (They aren’t completely of course, the guts of my E-Berlingo are shared across a number of others.) EVs, like a lot else, should be designed with maintaining and upgrading in mind. Especially with parts like batteries which are in such evolutionary flux.
In fact, just right-to-repair the whole car. In fact, the whole everything!
Boy, that escalated quickly
But yes, please.
Battery swapping is common practice in China. Far as I know, these swaps aren’t for huge capacity batteries, and moreso designed for smaller ones. Takes about as long as filling a sedan tank with fuel. We could have this technology, but there’s not really a push for it.
I don’t need it and neither do the other EV owners I know. But we can all charge at home.
They should specified speeds too. I think Apple gimps usb c charging speeds
More speed is more heat is more battery wear.
Ok so make it an option
Nobody opts out and now Apple is bad because batteries age faster (even though it’s the same on other phones).
Not the best idea.
I know Samsung and pixel both have this option, and I would be surprised if other major manufacturers didn’t. While people have their grievances with them, I’ve never heard anyone complain about overall battery lifetime.
If that is an actual concern people have then they can just turn it off by default
People complain extra about anything Apple does.
I don’t care what people have to say about apple
More speed is more heat is more battery wear
Why is making it an option with the default set to off worse than what they have now (slow charging with no option)?
Yup I have noticed this with my new iPhone 16 pro.
You plug it in and the charging speed as drastically slower than when I use the new ‘official’ apple wireless mag lock (or whatever it’s called) charger.
I have an iPhone 16 and can just from dead to close to 50% in just about half an hour. Is your charger at least 30 watts and supports USB-PD? (I’m using a 65w charger, but remember reading somewhere the iPhone only uses 30w or a bit more)
MagSafe fast charging is only 25w, so charging by cable with a high enough wattage charger is always faster for me.
Kudos to the EU, end the waste.
Thx EU, glad to live here
Thx EU, I live in the the land of the fee but will benefit from you forcing apple to be compatible.
Don’t buy Apple to be compatible.
Just don’t buy apple
I don’t but my kids do and I’m forced to maintain their crap at work.
Don’t buy Apple
to be compatible.Couldn’t agree more mate
Funny how recently as this was unfolding, USBC chargers for certain devices only work for those devices. So yes now we will only have USBC but ones that will only work with the assigned brands
Main reason I left OnePlus is because i couldn’t use any PD chargers. Highly impractical.
Also half of their software straight up didn’t work. My OnePlus was the most powerful least useful device I have owned.
