• tempest@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      Part of that joke though is that they’re both exactly the same which is of course a false premise.

      • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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        2 months ago

        Well I was posting it more to the point of the I am sure wave of people saying “Well I voted for the Dems” is fast approaching.

    • Rolando@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      FWIW most clowns are hard-working, skilled individuals who bring joy to people’s lives.

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          I know you’re probably joking buttttt, I know a ton and can say it’s a mixed bag … Many clowns are like Santa’s and magicians…they’re not the most forward thinking and take themselves waaaay too seriously. Most new age and haunt clowns are cool peeps. It’s the old school “clowning art” gate keepers and the evangelical clowns that tend to be insufferable. Heavy mean girl vibes.

          • obscur_e@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            I was actually wondering because i dont know much about clowns, it’s interesting, iv heared only about some Gracy or Gacy clown but forgot what was the thing about him

  • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    When you figure out that the United States was established by wealthy white males who owned slaves, had a revolution due to “no taxation without representation” but then purposefully ignored to repent the 99% until major reforms over the years, it makes sense.

    The first set presidential elections were only voted by a handful of Americans. Not the women. Not the slaves. Not the natives who were here first. The landowning white men.

    When we claimed England is a tyranny but abolished slavery and gave universal aufferage before we did, I think we lost that argument. America was built by out of touch white men, and it has always been ran by out of touch white men.

    • Bookmeat@lemmy.world
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      Not to mention that the civil war was lost through the presidential election of 1876 even though it was won in battle before that. That election was so corrupt that the Union conceded a lot to get their president, including removing Federal forces from the South on the promise that the South would protect Federal rights of minorities, blacks, etc. (among other things) The North pulled out and the south reneged without consequence (the KKK was the strong arm then) until the Civil Rights act in the 60s. That’s only roughly 60 years ago. Most of the institutional segregation from before then is still firmly in place.

    • merc@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      It’s amazing the stories that Americans tell themselves about the American Revolution. They pretend that the “founding fathers” were heroic idealists standing up for honorable values against an evil despotic regime. The truth is much more complicated.

      A major goal of the 7 Years War was about controlling the colonies in the Americas. Had the French won those wars, the modern people of North America would probably speak French. Look at how many US places still have French names, and especially are named after the French king: Louisiana, Louisville, St. Louis, Mobile, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Detroit, Lafayette, Arkansas, Illinois, Calumet, Decatur, Boise, Montpelier, etc. But, the French lost the war, so the English took over all that territory. Fighting that war was incredibly expensive, but it was worth it for the English because they now controlled a whole new continent with all its resources. To pay for that war, they levied taxes. The English colonists in the US, who were largely the beneficiaries of that part of the war, decided they didn’t want to pay those taxes, so they rebelled. They got the benefit of a continent won for them by English armies, but without having to pay the bill for that fight. Now, again, it’s complicated. The English armies were integrated with the colonial armies. George Washington was initially an officer in the British army (and was part of starting the French and Indian wars, which became the 7-years-war). The US colonists were part of the force that fought against the French and their native allies.

      Anyhow, it was complicated. But, the end result was that after a war that took place both in Europe and in the Americas, the British crown had a huge debt. I have no idea what proportion of that debt was due to the part of the war fought in Europe vs. the part of the war fought in the Americas, but overall there was a big debt and the English crown tried to tax whoever they could to pay for it.

      Was the English king a tyrant? Sure. Did the Americans have fair representation in the English parliament? Probably not. But, their main reason for rebelling was the same one that is nearly always the cause of rebellions: the rebels are in an area that’s wealthy for some reason, and they don’t want to have to share that wealth with the rest of the country / empire. In fact, it was suspected that the colonists chose not to send representatives to the colonial assembly partially because they knew that if they did that it would undermine their “without representation” argument, and the real issue was that they simply didn’t want to pay taxes.

      As for the English system being tyrannical, the reality is that it has been a very slow, gradual change from an absolute monarchy to a ceremonial one. The English crown is significantly less wealthy than Elon Musk, and arguably has a lot less influence on British politics than Musk does on American politics.

      By the letter of the laws, the British system is still more classist and controlled by money than the American system. But, is that true if you look at the actual real way that power is used? It doesn’t seem like it to me.

      • Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I particularly enjoy the bit about how after the French helped us win our revolution and took some revolution home in a doggy bag. We reneged on our debt claiming “Our deal was with the king.”

  • Wolfram@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I can’t tell you how much faith I’ve lost in the average person in America, especially compared to how… ok, I guess, the last election went and how tight, or possibly over this one is.

    I can’t fathom how fucking stupid anyone would have to be to elect this orange piece of shit that has been upping the dangerous rhetoric constantly. America is broken and it isn’t worth fixing, especially not for the morons that somehow get him elected again. I just hope that I can get to a point in my career that I can move elsewhere, maybe Ireland or New Zealand or something, fuck.

    • OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      For real. The rest of the world needs to get their shit together and cripple the US. Cease all trades immediately, end all alliances with the US. The US has the largest military in the world, and now the facists have the reins entirely. They have the oval office, the have the house, they have the Senate and they have the supreme court. The entire world is going to suffer because of this election.

      • Random_Character_A@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        US politics have gone to dangerous direction for decades. Orange freak is only a symptom. US is gonna become Russia level cleptocracy and when climate crysis hits fully, world will be more separated and chaotic than ever.

        • OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          Yeah, this recent election shows how far gone my country really is. But unfortunately it’s also the golden opportunity facists have been working towards for a long time.

      • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        God you blue conservatives are ridiculous.

        You’d rather support the death of America over doing away with the two party system.

        • Wolfram@lemmy.world
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          Go ahead and wait for the U.S. to implement a viable system. I’d bet it’ll be longer than our lifetimes before that even happens. And that’s ignoring what is probably the desire of keeping the status duo of a broken two party system like this.

        • Statfish@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Cool story, bro. How do you propose to do that? You got a magic wand? How many of those ballot initiatives failed this time around?

        • OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          Bud id fucking love to get rid of the two party system. Personally I’ve been talking about it for fucking years. but that’s not gonna fucking happen.

          Go fuck yourself with this blue conservative bullshit.

      • bobalot@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        There may not be any need for that.

        The United States, China, etc. all have trade policies that are fundamentally unsustainable and result in persistent trade imbalances.

        This causes all sorts of poor economic outcomes for large sectors of those countries. For example, an anaemic household sector in China and over investments in housing, huge private and public sector deficits in the United States, etc.

        In the free market world of Adam Smith and comparative advantage, persistent trade imbalances should not exist.

        Over the medium to long term, imports are meant to pay for exports.

        If there are persistent trade imbalances, it means there is persistent under consumption (China) or over consumption (United States).

        Note: This is not just limited to these countries.

        At some point, there is going to be an economic crisis because it can’t continue forever.

  • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    What??? We literally saw democracy play out. You can’t even use the excuse that he lost the popular vote, he won every type of democratic way we have.

    You know what wasn’t democracy? Installing candidates into primaries over democratically popular candidates. Hillary in 2016, Biden in 2020 and Kamala in 2024. In every single one of these primaries, they did everything they could to shut down anyone popular who showed any sign of having a backbone, even though they killed democracy as it happened.

    What we saw was a backlash to a stifling of democracy. Democracy won last night.

      • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        Do you think Dems aren’t backed by billionaires? Gates, Bezos, Soros, Oprah, the list continues. But what, the single billionaire throwing $$ at the trump campaign is the big evil baddie? Because he has a few more billions?

    • zik@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Trump has threatened to end democracy in the US. So yesterday may end up being the last time anyone in the US gets to vote.

      I wouldn’t call that a win for democracy.

      • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        There is zero proof that he’ll be a dictator. My source is that he was president for 4 years and was not a dictator.

        The only thing you’re basing your claim on is an offhand joke he made about fully shutting down the borders on the first day, then opening them back up with better safeguards. If you watch the whole clip, you’ll understand that.

    • pingveno@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      If you’re referencing Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020, he wasn’t “democratically popular” in either race. That simply is not supported by polling or election results. He was well behind Clinton by all metrics. Then in 2020, he was briefly “winning” because several similar candidates were splitting the center-left lane. The moment the center-left lane narrowed, Sanders’ lead evaporated.

      It’s SOP for candidates to more or less clear the field for an incumbent president. This is partially because of a perceived effect from a strong primary challenger weakening an incumbent. So Democrats were just doing what both parties have been doing for the last half century.

      The change from Biden was in response to clear reactions from the US electorate. The electorate saw Biden’s debate performance and was not impressed. There wasn’t time to run a process, so Kamala was the obvious choice given a non-ideal situation. But the electorate got what it wanted in terms of an option that wasn’t elderly.

      • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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        2 months ago

        Bernie Sanders won 3 out of 5 primaries that occurred before the DNC called it for Biden in 2020 with Buttigeg picking up 1 other. In 2016 Sanders won 23 races and was at 43% of the popular vote despite extreme pushback by the DNC. He was democratically supported cause he had people voting for him. Democratically.

        And sure but with some of the worst polling numbers Biden, did not need to or should have thought he had incumbent advantage. Mud had a better approval rating.

        And the change was from that and a protest vote of 100,000 voters voting against Biden in a primary that had no other option that’s was being ignored until the rich donors realized the polling wasnt gonna get better after the debate proved he was not fit for office.

        There was time but the argument was made that it would be difficult and all the donations already made could be immediately given to Harris as she was already on the ticket, thus letting the money flow (which the DNC outspent Trump 2:1)

        They got what they wanted which was a younger centrist willing to do Biden-esque policy without question that they thought would be easy with identity politics and being “not Trump” which is viewed as the main issue and not what issues he represents as a fix for.
        Mostly being a willingness to change from status quo.

        Which is exactly what hasn’t been allowed in races as shown before.

        • pingveno@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Bernie Sanders won 3 out of 5 primaries that occurred before the DNC called it for Biden in 2020 with Buttigeg picking up 1 other.

          I’m not sure how to parse what you’re saying. As far as DNC rules are concerned, they “call” it once all primary races are held.

          In 2016 Sanders won 23 races and was at 43% of the popular vote despite extreme pushback by the DNC. He was democratically supported cause he had people voting for him. Democratically.

          The Democratic primary uses proportional representation, so candidates don’t win states, they win delegates. Hillary Clinton got 55% of the popular vote, Bernie Sanders got 43%. There are no two ways to slice it, Bernie lost that election by the rules of a democratic election by a sizeable margin. Meanwhile, Hillary was dealing with getting hacked and Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi. And you’re forgetting the often adoring coverage that was played to audiences on the left about Sanders.

          The selling point for Kamala wasn’t anything in particular about her. She’s the VP and was the only obvious choice. There was no appetite for a contested convention, which was the alternative. It was always going to be an uphill battle, so in a sense she’s also a sacrificial lamb.

          • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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            2 months ago

            I’m not sure how to parse what you’re saying. As far as DNC rules are concerned, they “call” it once all primary races are held.

            I believe it means that you weren’t paying attention during the 2020 primaries or the news around them then. The DNC Does not wait and did not. Claiming Biden the Presumptive nominee 38 days after the first delegate picked. Obama took 120 days. To give you an idea of how fast that was, faster than Trump’s nomination in 2020.

            You are correct though. The primary eventually went the way it went. He lost it by the rules but there is a reason people don’t feel good about the rules presented and that needs to be dealt with.

            I would also just want to finish with the simple, how is pointing out how popular his rallies were be a negative to his electability while being an usurper to someone in social and legal discourse?

            • pingveno@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              So based on your 38 days, that would be March 12th (2020-02-03 + 38 days), no? And Biden was indeed declared the winner on a March 12th, but that was in 2024. It took until April 8, 2020 for Bernie to decide to drop out.

              • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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                2 months ago

                I think you are right. I am mixing up the 12th with 2024 however it was not until Bernie dropped out that everyone started calling Biden the winner.

                By March media was still calling Biden the nominee and you can find articles claiming Biden as the nominee by March 17th just with a quick Google search. Washington Post called it by March 15th in an article I can’t read from a paywall.

                After Biden won South Carolina (a single state) it was already being called as his win and by March 3rd most other candidates dropped and fell in line with Biden creating chaos in super Tuesday polling as voters were told their votes had been pointless.

                I agree with you that if you look Biden didn’t actually get the delegates needed to be the Nominee until June and that Bernie Sanders didn’t drop until the 8th of April and his campaign was struggling at that point.

                But that divide between what actually happened and how it’s recorded is part of my point.

                A large amount of effort was made to push people into a specific option and while it “worked” it does not mean it didn’t come with a cost of voter engagement.

      • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        I am not sure you remember but the media reaction to Bernie doing well initially was major outlets like CNN reacting with fear, loathing, and uncertainty. And it impacted rhe course of an election. You had anchors yelling about how Sanders will result in public executions in central park during the primary.

        • Butterpaderp@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Did you forgot the part where it came down to just bernie vs biden in 2020 and people overwhelmingly voted for biden?

          I like bernie too, but he wasn’t gonna get the pick

          • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 months ago

            All these sources of intentional corruption against someone running to improve the lives of all Americans and not just a select few, and you just go “Hmm, but he was losing according to the media that lied to us, so he lost fair and square.”

            • Butterpaderp@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              I see how many people didnt vote for him. How is the media lying about that?

              You could argue that media was against him, but the truth is that people in america just aren’t that progressive. I mean hell, look at how terrible the dem turnout was this year compared to last election.

                • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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                  2 months ago

                  “If they just had my opinions (that are unpopular to the US population at large), they would win.”

              • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                2 months ago
                • Refuses to cover his campaign ads
                • Refuses to cover his victories
                • Internally leaving him off of nationwide polls when data allow him to be counted (CNN infamous called Sanders “Other Candidate” instead of showing him, but counted Andrew Yang)
                • Slander about him being sexist when he encouraged women to run for office and only started going in 2016 when he asked Warren to run and she declined.
                • Mass media campaign about calling the Jewish senator antisemitic for not being “pro killing children”

                So when the media is against you, people see it as a bad candidate, and don’t vote. Even when he was never a monster, but Trump got more air time saying “Mexicans bring rape”.

          • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Except it wasn’t just him and Bernie. It was also Warren, so the progressive vote was spit, while the centrist vote was coordinated around Biden. Nice try though!

      • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        He wasn’t “democratically popular” because the Dems suppressed all support he had. All those news medias that have been hounding on trump being the worst thing since Hitler? Yeah, they used that same power to stifle anyone who had an iota of a chance to get votes

  • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I hope our future dictators are handsome or beautiful and that they come with nice body parts, so when we have to suck their dicks, we can at least enjoy it.

      • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Here’s my pound of gold 🥇 Mr Trump. Are you fucking me? How come I can’t feal anything yet? Oh well fine, it’s not a problem. …Anywhere you’d like Mr president, I’ll clean it off. Oh yes, the migrants are all bad. All of them. Oh yes, the enemy within! Terrible things. More licking? Ofcourse Mr president!

  • Snapz@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Plain and simple… She was a woman, and a black person - There will be months of tap dancing and “deep” analysis, but we’re just an ugly, atrophied, broken, racist and patriarchal nation, like deep down in our DNA. We were able to elect Obama, yes - he is half white, and a man. Again, it’s not satisfying, but it’s just the plain truth here.

    Plenty of deliberate work has been done, mostly by republicans, to keep America stupid, poor and in untreated pain, yes… But we’re also just trash on the whole. We raise trash and we vote for trash. We just aren’t smarter than social algorithms, TV soap opera narratives, costumes and makeup. “The pretend business man is white, old, wears a tie and has a gold watch. He feels like how daddy felt when I was little, and when things are bad, daddy fixed them the way I remember it.”

    Video game trolls, people who failed the cop application physical and triple DUI wine moms are America. No further explanation or analysis needed.

    • quink@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      Should have stuck with the British Monarchy, powerless as it comes. A woman as head of state for 70 years and even better, no elections for any president during any of time.

    • OpenStars@piefed.social
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      2 months ago

      I get more the sense that people don’t care about her so much - or him either for that matter - so much as how things in general just “feel wrong”. I’m no expert but the news media having been bought out seems a likely culprit. Jon Stewart tried to warn us but we would not listen. He did his part, but if people don’t value things, they tend to fall - or in this case be taken - apart.

    • Fredselfish@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I remember hearing many democrats that joked how they voted for the white side of Obama. It wasn’t funny and isn’t funny now. They are not only voting against a woman but one of color.

      We are going let christian fascism take control of America because a large portion of our population is sexiest, and racist. Not to mention all those protest votes or fucker who sat on their couch rather than do the right thing.

      Now we are all fucked.

      • Katana314@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        “Imagined” is perhaps the right word considering he wanted to raise taxes for low income people, and lower taxes for rich people.

        • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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          2 months ago

          Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.

          But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.

          It’s not impossible to see how the perceptions got to where they are.

          • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.

            But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.

            Why does the love of the working class have to be fake?!?!?!?

            Holy fucking hell, democrats have lost their mind.

    • phdepressed@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      While this is a large part of it, a significant thing I think is that you get a lot more enthusiasm voting for something than against something. If she was campaigning for things I didn’t hear it above the constant “orange shit is an orange shit”.

      A number of terrorist bomb threats to predominantly democratic polling locations in swing states and other fuckery may have also played a role.

            • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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              2 months ago

              False choice dilemma.

              Democrats need to swallow their pride and arrogance and admit to themselves that they shouldn’t be going solo against the republicans.

              Do away with First Past The Post voting in blue states and let more players onto the field. This fight is bigger then the democratic party.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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      2 months ago

      Setting aside whether she would’ve won had she been a white man, she could’ve made up for that handicap by appealing to the right people if she had actually been trying to win. Pinning it completely on her race and sex simply ignores her absolute failure of a campaign.

    • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      Plain and simple… She was a woman, and a black person

      She was doing better than the old white guy she replaced though

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        She was doing better than the old white guy she replaced though

        Was she really though? She couldnt identify a single thing she’d do differently than Biden, who has a truly remarkable and historic level of low approval.

        • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 months ago

          She had excitement and energy, then said she’d do nothing different than Biden. Lost a lot of energy. Got Time Waltz, more energy, and then the party told him “stop calling Vance weird” and we lost more energy.

          She had a better shot at talking trump, she just loved to shoot herself in the foot.

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        What does “doing better” mean to you in this day and age in that context? Polls are no longer a viable tool. They are captured, manipulated and heavily biased. They ask misleading questions and ask them of non-representative populations.

        Very big difference between “doing better” in “the race” and casting your vote on election day. Again, gramma in Pennsylvania didn’t think Kamala was doing better, or really she didn’t care what she was doing, because there was just one “key issue” that gramma would never get onboard with for Kamala… Gramma didn’t talk about that issue during “the race”, but she was thinking about it when she pulled the lever.

    • wlodi@szmer.info
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      2 months ago

      Totally agree. After all the progress the US is still not ready to accept anyone else than white men at the top.

      • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        You people are about to overdose on copium. This is a lazy view. “she lost because of race and sex”. You need to really ask people why she couldn’t secure their vote.

        • NevermindNoMind@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          The “Run Up” podcast had an episode following the Working Families Party while they were out knocking on doors for Harris in a poor projects type neighborhood. The first lady they talk to is hesitant to vote for Harris because she’s a prosecutor who jailed black men for weed. While they are talking and the canvasser is trying to convince her, her neighbor jumps in and he says something to the effect of “Harris is a woman and world leaders won’t respect her and get us in a lot of trouble”.

          Is sexism/racism the reason Harris lost? No, I personally at this point think it has more to do with the Democratic party’s inability to offer solutions for working families - Dems are the center right party representing corporate interests and the elite while paying lip service to actual regular people, MAGA is viewed as the party of the common man, as bullshit as that is it’s what voters feel. I personally think the only way forward is an actual progressive platform which addresses fundamental economic unfairness in the system, and candidates who can connect to and explain that platform to regular folk of all races and demographics.

          But you can’t deny that sexism/racism didn’t play a significant role in the loss.

          • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            Hearing a sexist comment once is not evidence of wide spread sexism. You’re allowing your personal views to color your objective view. Show me dozens of videos of someone saying they won’t vote for Harris because of her sex or race and I might think otherwise. Isolated incidents don’t mean much.

        • Snapz@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I used to respond to people like you carefully and in some depth, with the hope that others who needed the words could read mine and feel indirectly supported.

          I’m not doing that today. My original statement stands, you’re statement is the way you are personally trying to accept the guilt, shame or disappointment in this reality, I’ll leave it at that.

          • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            “my view is right because it’s mine. Yours is wrong because it’s not mine”

            No guilt, disappointment, or shame in my game. My life is pretty great.

            • Snapz@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Actually says a lot about you if you can say that in this moment. Thanks for that clarity.

              • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                Yes, it says I’m a normal person living a normal life and I don’t live my life perpetually online and have not become a radical. Cheers mate.

    • LappingDog@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      I voted for Harris walz, but I think a lot of this is the fault of Biden for trying to run for reelection and sticking it out until July. I live in the south and I think the lack of a primary reallly hurt the ticket because a sizable portion of the people I’ve talked to felt like she was appointed instead of being elected, which is a bad move when public trust in our institutions is already at an all time low.

      • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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        2 months ago

        Institutional democrats who thought they knew what they were doing and could ignore the base of the party is to blame. Biden being top of the list. Stubborn self assured who when finally pushed to change was only willing to do it on his terms. And made a decision for everyone, again.

        One of the big stories is a Democratic party Mayor of a super Blue city being corrupt and organizing police to defend him and yet not a single member of the party has spoken out against it. Endorsed by Hakeem Jeffries.

        Status quo is far more important than listening to their base right now and hopefully it changes instead of them once again thinking they need to head further right.

        And for the love all things holy I hope the Democrats learn to stop “gaming” the election with specific counties in “blue walls” because they did advanced math that told them it was all they needed. Bare minimum should never have been the goal.

      • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        This is all excuses. The fact that Trump made it all the way as the primary candidate for the GOP means that Republicans were okay with what he said and what he did.

        For a normal person, it shouldn’t even take a second to choose Harris. But this isn’t the case. Trump won the popular vote and the presidency despite all the crazy shit because a sizeable part of the citizens voted him in regardless of the reason.

        And not only that, but Republicans won the senate and well on their way to win the house.

        It is about to get real bad, and Americans have themselves to blame for that.

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        The people you talked to are bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by any of that shit - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.

        You’re hearing the thing they hope their neighbor would think of them after the fact, " I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy detail… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".

        Your neighbor fucking sucks, Bill - this is the time you pause, take a breath, and fully internalize that to inform your future interactions.

        • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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          2 months ago

          Shit dude, I’m far left, believed that the only way to protect democracy was to vote for Harris, and then did it, but even I felt like she was appointed. Nobody wanted her as a first choice but we were forced to accept her when she succeeded Biden. She got 14 million less votes than Biden did in 2020. That isn’t only because she’s a black woman. It certainly plays a part, but we can’t act like it wasn’t just general voter malaise that led to this outcome.

          • Snapz@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            It’s not “just” the fact that she has a vagina, its that that was always going to be the deciding factor. There’s nuance in understanding the distinction there.

            • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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              2 months ago

              So your argument is that she got 14 million less votes than Joe specifically because she’s a woman? Because I struggle to see how it could be the “deciding factor” otherwise.

              • ObliviousEnlightenment@lemmy.world
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                Yes. That is their argument. Because most men of alll races, and even most white women favored him. He got less votes than 2020, and won the popular, got a trifecta.

              • Bacano@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                I agree, it’s an oversimplification. The Democratic party has become the party of ‘going back to business as usual’ and refuses to lower it’s commitment to the corporations that fund it. Trump won 2016 because he was a genuine establishment shaker.

                Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.

                • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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                  Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.

                  Democrats have proven that they will sue to strip such a person from the ballot. How can they claim to defend democracy while hiding behind First-past-the-post voting?

          • dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            None of it should factor. At all.

            The distinction between the candidates was clear enough:

            1. I will lower your taxes (for billionaires), I don’t like immigrants, and I will say all the stuff you think and the lefties made it bad to say. Also if I don’t win I’m going to jail because, for enough money I will do whatever you want (for Russia, Elon, or anyone else).

            2. I am an actual qualified candidate.

            There was no choice. It was taxes and fear and tribalism with a special sprinkle of election interference attempts around the horn.

            She was appointed? So what? Elect her because she’s a better choice, then fix that problem.

            • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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              She was appointed? So what? Elect her because she’s a better choice, then fix that problem.

              I think the issue (well one of many) with this line of thinking is that as she was appointed, even if elected she would not have been fairly elected. An issue with the Dems for many years now. People vote against things more then for them and the USA voted for trump over Harris. That nothing seems to have been learned other then “she should have won” or “maybe if we go farther right it will work this time” is a real mindfuck.

              The Dems could “fix” that problem (since it is a party problem) but they don’t, ever. This is as much a failing of the Democratic party as the failure of American democracy collapsing into a two party system.

    • gradyp@awful.systems
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      2 months ago

      Bingo. The party of stupid, obstinant assholes was elected by the stupid, obstinant asshole electorate.

    • Crampon@lemmy.world
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      Dems had the house for 12 years the past 16. Nothing really changed.

      People have claimed Harris wasn’t capable of leading. They got their undeserved confirmation when she turned out to be a no show for 14 hours yesterday.

      You construct a Strawman. If the Dems pulled a capable and charismatic woman out of the top hat she would be able to win.

      • OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip
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        People handed the election on a silver platter to a guy who refused to concede in 2020, and shills are on here saying that Harris is incapable of leading because she took a while to concede?

        And I bet those same people complain that Gore conceeded too soon in 2000.

        What’s this about the Dems having control of the house? Another person that needs a civics lesson? It’s like the cultists saying that “Kamala had 4 years to fix these problems” because they don’t know how our government works.

        The Dems have had control of the government for exactly 2 years since 1980. I don’t understand how anyone can blame the Dems for the state our country is in.

        The silver lining in all this is that now that Republicans have complete control, it will be impossible for shills and cultists to blame the Dems.

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
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        “People have been saying…” - oh fuck you, dude.

        First sentence is just beyond stupid. Ignores so many nuanced changes, recovery of the economy from COVID not the least of it and just oblivious to the overall balance of power along the way with an unreasonable, obstructionist gop opposing progress at every turn, even to spite themselves on things like the border bill and the infrastructure bill more recently.

        “Enough” is never done, but that’s a problem with overall politics, mixed with subjective perception. But your ignorant oversimplification here just has no place in a conversation among adults. Maybe go play with the dirt outside or go point at the pictures in that puffy book you love about firetrucks while you shit yourself?

        Your statement is just hollow. It’s defiantly ignorant, smug, selfish, cowardly and just overall, you seem to (without further qualification) fucking suck. To have failed you this poorly, can also confidently assume that your family is just generations of disappointment in front of and behind you. You’re useless lumps, impotently screaming at the sun… At least that’s what “People have been saying…”

        • Crampon@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Why did you put in quotation marks to your sentence?

          You’re just salty you got red pilled.

    • Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Obama was a unique situation in that he was both an incredibly charismatic JFK-style figure and ran after the Republicans had managed to both start a very unpopular war and destroy the world economy.

        • gradyp@awful.systems
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          this is why she lost, morons complaining about themselves. who fucking cares, that ad was not targetted at you, and if it was, grow some thicker fucking skin rather than voting for a fascist. I don’t give a shit if the dems personally put me on a pedastal and said I was alone to blame for the US problems; I have a functional brain and can see what the actual problems are and who has actual solutions, or at least not exclusively ways to enrich himself and get revenge.

          middle aged white dudes are the problem, I’m one of them. this morning, I was nearly assulted and arrested due to a roadrage incident. a dude in a pickup nearly sideswiped me at an intersection, I had to swerve to avoid him. At the light, he rolled down the window and started yelling at me. I rolled down mine because I honestly thought he was going to apologise but instead he started screaming insults at me because “you couldn’t let me have that one car length!!!”. I told him that after the shit this country just endured, this was how we wanted to handle things?

          This was apparently the wrong answer because he jumped out of his car and started coming at me. I am not interested in a road rage altercation so I floored it and ran the red light. I would up cutting off a cop who saw the whole thing and let me go because I did the right thing.

          this was my first interaction with a person since the election. I sincerly hope this was just tensions running high, but I can’t help but feel this nation just gave that sort of problem solving it’s full throated support.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            2024 was the last time I’ll ever vote for a Democrat, especially given how I’m being spoken to for doing it.

            I’m done voting for the side that calls me their enemy no matter what I do. I’m done going out of my way for people who hate me. I’m done doing “the right thing” for people who are offended at the idea of expressing gratitude. It’s been this way my entire adult life and I’ve got a belly full.

            “Hey, you’re going to need the support of white men to win this election, so you should probably address their concerns in good faith here.” Nope. That wasn’t acceptable to the Left. The people who said that got shouted down. A couple ads like the one linked below plus others got made that were very obviously designed to conform to feminist attitudes toward men first and demand of men second. They did indeed recognize that they needed my vote, but weren’t willing to try seeing eye to eye with me at all. Saving the nation from fascism and preserving their own rights, freedoms and lives in the process wasn’t a good enough reason to speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it. And they’re going to blame me for it, just like they’ve blamed me for everything their entire lives.

              • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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                2 months ago

                Cool, lets fight authoritarianism by only letting people vote and be part of one party. That will sure to work out, not like this concept failed not 2 days ago or anything…

                • gradyp@awful.systems
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                  huh?

                  where in anything I ever said did I even mention one party or anything? This is because reactionary idiots don’t do research and/or don’t care enough about others when their special little feels get squishy… boo hoo…

                  I’m not a democrat, I very nearly didn’t vote because I couldn’t get behind either candidate but in the end it was a VERY easy choice given the realities of the situation. we now have a man, who is publically traded on the stock market, who praises dictators and authoritarians, who’s sworn revenge on political enemies, who’s plans are to deport millions, free a bunch of his violent supporters, destroy the economy with the dumbest economic plan in history because of this shitshow of an election. you could see it, I could see it, it was all there and obvious and you chucklefucks are sitting here complaining about your feels.

                • gradyp@awful.systems
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                  you sound just like the motherfucker who tried to jump me this AM.

                  speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            Those nakedly misandrist ads were brought to my attention after I cast my ballot.

            I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life, but the Democrats will have to actually earn my vote if they ever run a candidate again, they may no longer expect me.

            Blame me as much as you want, you’re going to anyway. I’m the bad guy even when voting your way so what’sthe point? Those who cannot bring themselves to speak to me with respect to literally save their lives can die as mad as they want.

            • Snapz@lemmy.world
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              “Look what you made me do!” just dripping…

              Maybe work on having some established personal principles and some backbone? Maybe less wielding your vote as a little golden cudgel over people’s heads? Why the fuck does your vote for a complex full administration of people including court appointees that will serve long terms as they all pursue at least four years worth of basic, roll up the sleeves and work day to day policy, all hinge on one targeted ad that hurts your feefees?

              And studies have shown that people who casually drop the word “misandrist” have videos from matt walsh and nick fuentes in their YouTube watch history arguing that the age of consent is too high.

              • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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                2 months ago

                See what I mean?

                I’m going to get screamed at like I’m the bad guy ANYWAY. There is no winning to be done here. I’m not voting for a party that is pro woman ever again. I’m done voting against my own interests for people who hate me. It’s all I’ve done my entire adult life. No more.

  • jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    Kind of feels like our “crossing the Rubicon” moment. Except instead of an intellgent and accomplished general leading an army, we got a clown leading a circus.

  • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Also say goodbye to internet freedom of speech, if even a small portion of Project 2025 comes into play. Anti-pornography activism sounds nice on paper, until you realize everyone has a different definition of pornography, and the people that want to ban porn the most have a rather interesting take on what constitutes as porn and what doesn’t…