Let me preface by saying, I have my SUV all set up with a bed and a kitchen and all the amenities I need to camp out in the woods. I like it that way I’m enjoying myself I see no reason to change.
A couple of times I have mentioned that when seeing a doctor and the next thing I know, here comes the social worker with a stack of papers. I tell them that I’m doing fine. That I like how I’m living. I didn’t ask for any unsolicited help. And they don’t seem to listen at all. At some point they just leave me with a bunch of paperwork in a huff. I don’t understand why they get so upset just because I don’t want their help.
People who work in helping professions can sometimes have a lot of their identity and self worth tied up into it. A person who has not processed their emotions and baggage about their job/themselves/their place in the world/etc will unfortunately take that baggage out on clients. It is nonsense and I’m sorry you had to deal with it.
I’m gonna be honest with you, there’s probably some red flags that your doctor saw that perhaps you’re unaware of. You say living in your van is a choice; are you being honest with yourself about that? Are you actually taking care of your hygiene this way?
Because one red flag I’m seeing is a van-dweller making a doctor’s appointment in the first place. Usually nomadic/hermitic people (as in, those who choose to live off the grid and aren’t doing so as a matter of circumstance) generally don’t go to the doctor, unless something is really wrong. So for you to show up in a doctor’s office at all is already anomalous in the first place.
It shouldn’t be understated just how important basic things like access to clean running water can be. And you’re using the words “van” and “SUV”, and not “RV” or “motorhome”, which leads me to believe that you aren’t taking care of some basic needs.
If you’re truly taking care of yourself and being healthy, then more power to ya; I’m honestly a little jealous of those who can live that life. But if you’re actually struggling, you should probably consider taking a look at the paperwork they gave you. Don’t get pride get in the way of getting help.
I had to have my gallbladder removed
So you’re a little older, on a fixed income, don’t have a support system nearby, don’t have a place you can stay that has dedicated bathroom facilities or even room to stand up indoors, and you just had a not-insignificant surgery that comes with, at a minimum, laparoscopic incisions, and could significantly affect the way your body processes its diet.
You may well be doing fine, but I’m not calling out either the doctor or the social worker here. Pushing you a little and making you insist you’re happy was a reasonable call.
That’s your point your point, but I’m currently sitting in an easy chair at my mother’s house. I just had a shower, and a snack and now I think I’m going to eat some ice cream while I watch Wheel of Fortune.
Well, I’m happy to have been wrong about the support system. Heal up, and maybe view the annoyance as one of the few downsides of your lifestyle. What’s offputting to you may save someone else’s life. Best of luck!
I hope the people that really need help get the help they need
I have clean clothes, I go to the laundry regularly, I have a portable shower, I have a portable toilet. I brushed my teeth, I clean my body, I get exercise everyday, I try to eat a low fat high fiber diet.
You’re not participating in the capitalist system. You need a mortgage and credit card debt.
Bingo
You do realize that social workers are at least attempting to make social programs work for people? Like, they are pushing socialism in a real, mostly positive way?
I’m really sorry that these people who just really want to help people are bothering you, but maybe just explain your situation kindly and have gratitude for the people they do help who suffer from capitalism?
So far off base here lmao
They are participating in the capitalist system, mortgage or not.
Because they have 50 more people to see in the next 7 hours and some dipshit wasted their time scheduling them to drive out into the middle of fucking nowhere to see some dude that’s already told the last 6 people he doesn’t need them.
I was in the hospital and she didn’t have very far to go. But I kind of get the point. I’m sure she had 50 different people to see that day.
Why on earth is your doctor even allowed to share your personal situation with anyone? Did you consent to that? Else it’s a quite severe violation of your privacy.
Uhh…if your doctor refers you to someone else within their own practice, that’s in no way a violation
It is where I’m from. Not even nurses have full access to the patient file. Confidentiality exists between doctor and patient exclusively, that’s why I’m so shocked.
In the US, medical records within a practice or facility are able to be accessed on a “need to know” basis by those working with the patient. If your doc refers you to another specialty, whoever comes to see you will have access to your medical record. Strict disclosure laws apply to releasing info to entities outside the facility
Shocking twist: Kintarian is 12.
Idk, I once got threatened by a doctor for admitting to marijuana use. He said he was going to report me to law enforcement. It never happened but police kicking down people’s doors over suspected marijuana possession was definitely a thing that happened a few times in that town. The mayor even started a brawl with some medical marijuana picketers once.
Weird. I’ve never had a doctor that gave a shit about marijuana use.
Varies based on location and doctor’s non-medical beliefs.
If that was anytime in the last decade or so that’s horrifically illegal.
Depends on the country and jurisdiction
You’ll flip when you find out that there are circumstances in which they are mandated by law to share your personal information. That stuff is regulated to hell, and rallying resources to help people sleeping rough is a good thing in my book. Maybe OP doesn’t need the help but the other 99% of the people living on their cars are at huge risk to life. Starvation, hypothermia, malnutrition, human trafficking, prison, just to name a few.
A human trafficking course is required to review my healthcare license. They’re not used to seeing people with your skillset. Also, people who do adventurous things often do them well past the age where they’re safe. Just making sure that you know you have options.
Insane. Where I’m from they are not allowed to forward anything. Not even billing information to a third party payment provider without explicit written consent.
It’s usually strictly regulated what is allowed and what requires consent. Like I said, life saving is usually the intended criteria. That’s how child molesters are caught. Are you gonna ask diddler daddy for consent to put him in prison for giving his daughter HPV?
Different pretense, if a kid is identified as a victim, authorities will be informed since they haven’t reached maturity yet, and the alleged perpetrator is the legal guardian.
If an adult falls victim to sexual abuse, they will not inform any authorities on their behalf but leave it to the person.
If an adult is a suspected victim of human trafficking the police will be alerted despite their consent. Sexual abuse victims will be contacted by police and social workers as it is their job, not the doctor’s, to offer assistance and determine the consent and course of action to take. Same thing happened here, the doctor is not qualified to make the judgment call, so they call someone who is qualified and authorized to make such decisions. For doing so, the doctor is permitted and expected to partially disclose patient information, like identity and anything they saw or heard that prompted them to call social services or police. As they did in OPs case. This is not the violation of rights you think it is. It’s actually a sensible compromise to try and protect the most vulnerable members of society. Adults can be vulnerable too.
Honest question:
How do you make money for things like food, automobile costs, and your connected device (assuming phone)? I’m not trying to make a broader point. I am genuinely curious.
A lot of people have jobs online. A lot of people have YouTube channels that they make money off of. Me, I’m on social security. I’m retired and I make a little bit of extra money online. I save up money in a savings account just for situations I might get myself into.
Thanks for sharing. Glad you’re happy.
It’s because most people wouldn’t want to live in an SUV. If that’s what you like though then more power to you! The social worker was probably upset because you’re doctor called them all the way out there telling them that you needed help immediately and when you said you didn’t want help they felt they had wasted their time. It’s really the doctor they should be mad at I guess for calling them out there for nothing
I blame this mostly on the doctor. The doctor should’ve asked you if you wanted to speak with someone about your situation, but lots of doctors prefer to just make decisions for people rather than ask.
The rest of the blame lies with the social worker, who sounds like a bad social worker. Active listening is Social Work 101, and it sounds like she didn’t do that.
Maybe your doctor’s office is full of people who are bad at their jobs. I recommend against extrapolating anything about these professions as a whole from your two experiences there.
Good point. I’ll definitely never mention it again.
You aren’t hurting anyone or doing anything wrong. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people with fashy instincts who freak out over anyone living an unconventional life. And capitalism frowns on anyone living freely and not paying rent, etc.
So true. If you’re not following the life script people freak the fuck out. Want to live in a vehicle? Don’t want kids? Don’t want to be married? Into BDSM? Your political views land on both sides? People just don’t know what to do with anyone that doesn’t fit in a box.
Or take their help on things not directly related to housing? A decent social worker can do so much for you that could be genuinely helpful.
I wish we treated unhoused with the same basic structure as hospice. Having a team with a social worker, Dr, nurse, and counseling for each person would go a long way to long term well-being even for people who choose to be unhoused.
That sounds wonderful, I wish we could do that. Maybe someday.
Living in an SUV is often the first step to really needing their help. Housing insecurity is a quick road to pretty rough living. If you are in their system, in their eyes, they can actually act quickly and help you when the likely next step happens. Not being in the system is pretty slow to get help in most places.
There are a lot of nomads and van dwellers living in dispersed camping spots, traveling the country and enjoying the outdoors. We even have meetups. Others like me leave the sites better than we found them and follow all the rules. Everyone I’ve met so far is happy living this way. I know it seems strange, but enjoying the outdoors and not having to pay bills is wonderful to me and I get to choose solitude or community however I please. It’s a very free way to live.
Clearly the nomadic lifestyle does not work for everyone. Many people try it for a couple of months or a couple of years and then make a change. If you’re enjoying it, great, and if you enjoy it for years or decades to come, great, but don’t pretend that everyone does. And this is important because social workers cannot predict your future. They can only play the odds and make reasonable preparations for possible future badness.
When I find myself becoming irked by someone offering help I don’t need, it helps me to think of things in terms of people who slip through the gaps: the system that the social worker is a part of strives to help those who need it, and you not needing that help makes you a false positive. You were likely flagged because sometimes when someone is living in their vehicle, this is a symptom (and reinforcing factor) of their life being in disarray. That is to say that some people who superficially look a lot like you are in need of support, and not catching these people would be false negatives. Bonus complication is that many people who do need this help may also be resistant to support (for a variety of reasons).
Given that no system is perfect, and the error rate will always be greater than zero, we can ask the hypothetical “is it better to have fewer false positives and more false negatives, or more false positives and fewer false negatives?”. Put a different way, when you’re bothered, that’s you slipping through the gaps in a system that has opted for more false positives with the goal of helping as many people who need it as possible.
Unrelated to everything else I said, I’m glad you’ve been able to find a way of living that you’re happy in — it is a challenge when the life that is best suited for us is one that society considers “abnormal”, so I’m happy to hear about anyone who has broken into what works.
Oh yeah, I totally get the lifestyle. Done enough overloading to really appreciate the lifestyle. But I’m trying to explain things from their point of view. Even if now, you are in control and everything is going according to your plans, they see trouble in months if not years when those plans abruptly change. They know how most people got from point A to point B and are now sleeping in shelters or dark corners of “civilization”.
I guess from this perspective I can see that point. The last one I talked to was actually arguing with me about it and was upset when she left, I don’t understand that. I wasn’t confrontational with her. I just simply said I’m fine I don’t really need any help have a nice day. I thought I was pretty calm. I guess it was probably just her.
Out of curiosity, what were her arguments?
If you have enough resources to weather any (literal or metaphorical) storms, then you might be OK but that is not the typical situation.
For instance, she showed me a piece of paper where she put little yellow stars on all of the different resources. One of which was for $700 a month. I said that I don’t want to pay money for rent and utilities. She then said okay well here’s this place where you can live with a roommate. I said I’m not really a people person, I don’t want to live with a roommate and she said well you might make a new friend. And it kind of went on like that for a while.
Ah, that’s unfortunate. If you say you’re happy in your SUV then showing you places to live that aren’t your SUV isn’t very helpful. Having a discussion about whether you’re aware of and prepared for any risks associated with living in an SUV could be productive - either you’d learn something from social worker’s knowledge of many people living in vehicles or the social worker could be reassured that you’re not in a terrible situation.
Do be careful out there! I hope you’ve got enough cash in the bank or enough credit to recover if someone messes with your SUV.
Thanks, I appreciate that
She was probably a bit overzealous I’m thinking, yeah. But that is a thankless job with low pay and little success. I give social workers a ton of latitude. I’m glad you stayed calm in the face of things.
I know I sure couldn’t do it
Same here.
I tell them that I’m doing fine.
That’s what most/all of their clients say at first. Especially alcoholics or other addicts do not admit that they need help.
So maybe you should emphasize this point a little more, so that they believe you right from start.
And emphasize that you’re not an alcoholic or an addict.
Idk how it’s relavant to them that you are basically a van dweller. As long as you are taking care of yourself (eating healthy, exercising, showing, and whatever else) then it doesn’t matter.
Maybe if there was some treatment that required you to have access to facilities you need in a house but I can’t think of anything. This is one of those times I would omit or just say you live in a house.
Just make sure you’re stashing away some cash in an account so you can replace your ride or put a down payment on a house if you decide you do want something a little less mobile some day.
As someone who has nearly lost everything to fire that was started by campers more than once there are externalities to your way of life that potentially harm others. I won’t accuse you directly because I don’t know you but the trend is there.
That’s why I do dispersed camping far away from other humans. I don’t use campfires, I checked the forest regulations to see if there’s any current fire restrictions in place, I pick up trash if I see it and I don’t leave any of my own trash.
I would have thought that seeing a doctor should already be a “green” flag that you don’t need their help. Healthcare is an expense I axed a long time ago.
In a lot of the world, doctors’ appointments are free or low cost
California, at least, has free health care with nearly the same requirements to qualify as food stamps. It’s probably easier to get medical care here being homeless than it is if you make more money that prevents you from qualifying because it covers damn near everything and you don’t pay a single cent. I didn’t even use my job’s insurance because I didn’t make enough to stop qualifying for the state given insurance and I’d have to give up $300 out of every check to use the one given by my employer. I barely made $400 each check.
It’s funny to me that in the USA the people with the best access to healthcare are often either the richest or the poorest.
That’s how they keep you from climbing the ranks. You need to take a loss for a while before things can actually get better, and you never know if it’ll be possible for you to get over that hump.
