There was a golden age when computers were something you owned, not like before when they were big machines your employer or university would give out access to, nor like after when they went to the cloud, you bought what was essentially a thin client and every software became a service.
At least in the olden days the computers weren’t forced into every single damn part of society!
Now in order to talk with most of your friends and family, you have to sell your soul to every one of the thousand ToS’s. It’s impossible to meaningfully use your personal device you bought with your own money without the internet, as every app and their mom needs to call home for some reason. For some reason, it is morally acceptable for a company to prevent you from being able to have someone you pay to replace parts of your device with third-party components you bought with your own money!
Now, of course, you can simply install some Libre operating system and use Lemmy, or Mastodon or whatever. But computers are so embedded into society that it is simply impossible to go without these services unless you want to get yourself isolated (and potentially in trouble with the authorities).
Besides, from prior experience, most people are unwilling to use technologies unless it is physically placed in front of them, whether through social influences, advertising or word of mouth, which generally corporate services do better than Libre alternatives.
It used to be that computers and programs were made for the end user. Now they are simply tools for ad and data-collection companies to extract every byte of personal data and force every second of advertising on others.
I’ve been seriously considering to remove computers from most aspects of my life, but as paper slowly disappears from our lives, this becomes harder and harder. Now you would likely be fired if you refused to use Teams or Slack or whatever your company uses. No one uses fax or writes mail or watches live TV anymore.
The only other alternative is to take back computers and make them personal again.
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The worst part is the banks. You have to get lucky to be allowed to use online banking without agreeing to some sucky TOS.
I hope I live to see the death of private banking. It’s insane how much of the fuckery in the world that originates in banking.
The internet, in particular social networking, needs to become personal.
I fleshed out an idea for building a personal social infrastructure system that will hopefully accomplish just that, but haven’t put “code to disk” yet.
As time passes it’s becoming more clear that this is ultimately the right way forward, but it’s a big project.
Check out freetheinter.net and send me some feedback :)
Waitwaitwait what am I looking at here? It seems to be fairly similar to the concept of the Fediverse. Could you explain it?
It’s intended to be much more local and decentralized than the fediverse, under the assumption that over time large fedi instances will exhibit the same issues as large centralized social networks (profit seeking, manipulation, etc)
- Instead of many people connecting to the same server, people only connect to people’s devices that they know
- It uses the resources of users “daily driver” devices for hosting
- It leverages “real life” personal connections and trust to deny access to large centralized entities
This sounds a lot like Circles
Sounds really cool! So it’s essentially “serverless” in the sense that it runs on users’ devices right?
I mean, it sounds cool if you don’t understand why servers exist…
Now, of course, you can simply install some Libre operating system and use Lemmy, or Mastodon or whatever. But computers are so embedded into society that it is simply impossible to go without these services unless you want to get yourself isolated (and potentially in trouble with the authorities).
Just install Linux and see for yourself that it’s not that hard and definitely won’t get you in trouble.
Of course, you’ll see all the same shit, but it won’t be as pervasive.
Besides, from prior experience, most people are unwilling to use technologies unless it is physically placed in front of them, whether through social influences, advertising or word of mouth, which generally corporate services do better than Libre alternatives.
Yes, that’s true. Which is why I’m sort of a luddite - I want simpler devices with more limited (and likely not universal) functionality, so that they’d just work when they should and not work when they shouldn’t. That is what should be given to ignorant people. Not something complex and spyware-ridden.
Sort of like … pagers, from the recent association with that terrorist act committed by Israel.
I think there’s a very big niche for simple electronic devices. Like you’d still often use hammer and nails at home, not an electric device with screwdriver mode, drill mode, hammer mode etc.
A separate device for texting and voice\video calls, with simple firmware to which support of different protocols can be added (distributed, say, just as plugins). A separate device for listening to music. A separate device to take photos and videos, I think we had something like this, what was it called I wonder, lol.
It may well be that the combined cost and efficiency for each application of a bunch of such simple devices will be better than with a smartphone. In such a case using them is optimal. It’s also good for economy - instead of a rather powerful machine requiring TSMC-produced stuff they’d need a few MCs that can be produced in many places of our planet, competition and decentralization are good for everyone. It’s also good for security - instead of very complex Android and iOS software stacks you’d have dedicated devices with smaller attack surface. It’s good for your mental health - human brain works better with dedicated physical things. It’s even good for fashion, I think even clubbing girls are starting to get tired of big dumb square pieces of glass with fingerprints all over them.
And it’s good for the industry.
but as paper slowly disappears from our lives, this becomes harder and harder. Now you would likely be fired if you refused to use Teams or Slack or whatever your company uses. No one uses fax or writes mail or watches live TV anymore.
I’d use something like a Star Wars datapad with a e-ink display, too.
What you wrote is not an old fart rant. It’s the only sane position on that. Not everything new is progress. Not everything new is better. Not everything more complex is more functional for one’s practical needs.
I grew up with computers since the ‘70s. I know this golden age well - and the golden age of the internet before it was monetized, tracked, ad-ified, walled off, etc.
We’re never going to get the old days back.
There’s always some business that’s going to insert itself between what you want and you and try to extract profit from it. Doesn’t matter if it’s tracking you or subscription fees.
I hate being taken advantage of like that, but unfortunately if you want to play with some of their toys you have to pay.
Just do it judiciously and take control where you can.
I build my own PCs. No pre-loaded crap. I download driver-only software when needed, not bloated corporate-ware like what HP or canon does to pester you about ordering ink. I have several Linux boxes doing free things for me like running a 3D printer, running a CUPS print server, running openHABian, a Jellyfin server, and the best of all - Pi-hole (block ads, block devices from phoning home). I run Firefox with all the ad blockers and anti-trackers. Facebook containers and YouTube ad blockers.
But I run windows 10. Why? Because it was free and it works. Take advantage of the system that takes advantage of you. I also run it dual boot with Manjaro, for all those tasks windows might make difficult.
My LAN has a separate network for all IOT and similar devices so they can’t see the rest of my network, and most are blocked from phoning home as needed. They don’t get to sell that data.
I take advantage of all free good software; Gimp, LibreOffice, OBS, VLC, 7zip…
Some things we’ll never get back, like ownership of top-tier games that have to phone home.
Anyway… like I said, there’s no way to wind the clock back. However, with effort, you can control what you can and at least not give them what they’re trying to extract from you. Be in charge of what you let them have. It’s really all we’ve got.
We’re never going to get the old days back.
Nothing is stopping you from using a computer as a standalone machine not connected to the internet. Then you have a machine just like the ones in the 1970’s and 1980’s except for having much more memory/processor/diskspace etc. I would say you have a better OS also, except that Linux is basically the same OS as my SCO Xenix 386 I had in the 1980’s.
That’s a wrong speech to deliver to a cute girl asking how to make things better.
You’ve started with philosophy and economics and olden days.
If we want to explain today’s tech and possible directions of fixing it to “normal” people, we need to start with what they need to do that they do with smartphones.
That’s what businesses do too - they take something hard and suboptimal, make the road shorter and take their toll. Sometimes stealing part of what you are carrying on that road, or replacing it with their unwanted shit, or just stuffing their unwanted shit into your pockets.
So what we should think about is - what to replace their finger-poking box with, so that it’d be better fit for how they use it.
I’ve written my luddite idea in another comment. Split it into a few dedicated devices, much simpler in their essence. Since smartphones are used today mostly not as universal machines, and this difference can be optimized.
That’s only IMHO.
You’ve reiterated pretty much what I said, but directly contradicted some of the most obvious points.
Not sure what a “cute girl” has to do with anything, I gave a pragmatic explanation. Do you treat cute girls like they can’t handle realistic information?
Your idea is to reduce functionality of popular devices. That’s not going to work. Like I said, if you want to play in these businesses’ little proprietary gardens you’re going to have to play by their rules. If you want to be a Luddite, great, but for the vast majority of people such limited devices will never be adopted and any business producing them will either be niche expensive or fail.
Just keep in mind that installing an app via the respective app stores (just install, not custom settings) is often the limit of what people can, and are willing to do.
People just simply don’t have the time, willpower and/or knowledge to get a controlled LAN working. It’s similar to how you don’t expect everyone being able to fly a helicopter, or build a car from scratch.
I didn’t assume we were speaking of the general public in c/technology, maybe that was a mistake. Most of what I said can be done without too much effort, especially browser extensions. The openHAB and various other tools are only going to apply to those who need them and probably have experience enough to try to tackle them. The only major one that I think people should take advantage of but is beyond most folks ability is Pi-hole. It’s not hard at all, but if you don’t know where to look or what the instructions mean it’ll be impossible for them.
but for the vast majority of people such limited devices will never be adopted and any business producing them will either be niche expensive or fail.
I don’t think that’s true.
My personal solution was to just drop computers/tech as an major interest, and find some other hobby. I found language learning to be a good alternative, because:
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You may be able to use it professionally.
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It might be useful when traveling.
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You can meet interesting people from various parts of the world and very often for free (language exchanges (online or not), playing video games, etc.).
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You are able to absorb other people’s massive culture, that might not be popular in your part of the world.
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You might impress some people with language skills, if you care about that.
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It is good for your brain.
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It is fun.
As for computers, I mostly use them as a tool nowadays, and occasional video gaming and YouTube watching. I mostly don’t care about AI, or any other technological marvel that isn’t proven yet to be useful, maybe except AR and VR which I still hope will be a big thing in the near future. Especially AR.
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Switching to more private and less data hungry services is a tough process. How private do you want to be? If you take it too far, you won’t have a cell phone or a bank account.
Carefully consider the changes you are willing make right now. Start small, progress slowly. Don’t get discouraged and remember that total privacy doesn’t exist.
Start by swapping search engine, don’t use Google or Bing. That’s an easy goal that already makes a big difference. Use something like Duck duck go, Startpage or something like that.
Eventually move away from gmail. Get your own domain, create your own email address. Slowly migrate your important accounts to the new email. This can take time but it’s not hard and you just removed the 2 largest sources of data from Google.
Stop using Chrome, try Firefox. Personally recommend LibreWolf, a Firefox fork. At the very least move to Brave browser (but make sure you disable the crypto crap). Most extensions exist in both browsers this should easy.
Eventually consider moving to Linux but don’t rush it. Study what apps you need, what alternatives are there in Linux. Expect a way worse user experience but a way way better ownership. Try in a VM or live environment before you even consider installing it for real.
Eh, I think it’s totally feasible to quarantine the problematic parts of tech and retain control. For example:
- GrapheneOS - I have a profile for my personal stuff w/o any Google services running, and then I have a “work” profile for things like Slack
- Linux - no software company or hardware company is going to restrict me from maintaining my own machine; I’ve replaced parts, uninstalled default software, etc; I currently use a Lenovo laptop and a DIY desktop, and I’ll probably replace my laptop w/ a Framework
“impossible to go without these services”
Have you tried? I stopped using Facebook over a decade ago, and I refuse to use anything else Meta has touched. I still keep in contact with those I care about. It turns out that if people value a relationship with you, they’ll work with what you’re comfortable with, provided you’re willing to compromise a bit too. For me, that means SMS and email is my main form of communication, though I’d prefer more private alternatives like Matrix and Signal. Maybe I’ll push my loved ones to switch eventually, idk.
No one uses fax
Nor should they, it’s absolutely insecure and shouldn’t be used by anyone. Period.
Mail is great, many of my friends have old-school watches, and while I don’t understand it, I have friends who watch live TV. None of that really interests me (though I’ll watch the Olympics OTA sometimes).
take back computers
What’s stopping you? Do it one step at a time, and make adjustments as you go. I switched to Linux full-time something like 15 years ago, and it’s all I use today. Since then, I have:
- switched from gmail to my own domain (hosted w/ Tuta)
- ripped all our DVDs and Blurays to a local Jellyfin server and cancelled most of our streaming services (SO convinced me to keep Netflix)
- switched to GrapheneOS after a few years of slowly cutting out Google crap
- self-host all kinds of stuff (I’m really close to eliminating Google Drive)
- eliminated all commercial social media, and only Lemmy is left
Do the easiest stuff first, and keep going until you feel like you’re in control. Your direction will probably look different than mine, and that’s great! But waiting for someone else to solve your problems is what got us into this mess, so do something, and ideally do it today.
scruffy-seconded.gif
I’ve been surprised by how effective it’s been to say, respectfully, “this is important to me,” maybe adding “here’s why.” Got all my siblings, mom, SO, and best friend on Signal, that’s a vast majority of my online conversations.
reddit is orders of magnitude bigger then lemmy, but I find lemmy high quality and has more people with similar values- more than i could ever keep up with.
Back when Adobe went subscription-only, I stopped using it on my personal work and devices even though a lot of my previous work depended on it. Had to switch to different tools, but now there are better options. Not only has Adobe stagnated, but they caused an even bigger exodus when they messed with the ToS to train ai on user data.
I switch to linux a few years ago and now when I have jobs that use windows I realize how clunky it actually is, and it’s only getting worse while linux has been getting better.
I’m fully degoogled (also a graphineOS user). It took me years to eliminate each service, but I was sick of these giant companies that could never give me the things I wanted because in interferes with what they want (ad revenue). The only thing you can do is take it all back. Participate as little as possible. These companies will not stop getting worse while people continue to use them.
It can be inconvenient, time-consuming, and hard, but there are options, and it is a lot easier now than it was a decade ago. I see no reason why it wont continue to get easier and more accessible. That’s why it’s important for tech savvy folks to do what they can, now, and make it easier for those who come after them. Personally, I’ve done a lot for myself, but need to learn more about hosting securely so I can offer close friends and family better alternatives that they can easily access.
graphene and debian make me happy 👍
A decent percentage of Gen X and early millennials grew up familiar with computers. You kind of had to be, to some extent. Stuff didn’t always work smoothly or easily, so some tinkering and understanding of how things work beneath the surface was required.
We’re moving towards a future where a computer becomes just like an appliance, like a TV. Both the hardware and software will be locked down and set up to work. You just tap and press buttons to get it to do its thing.
Eventually, we may even get to the point where computers are required to be locked down “for our safety”.
If we get that far, then I can imagine those who want to build their own and have full freedom to install and customise it any way they want could be considered the very fringe/fanatical elements of society.
“Hey, you want an illegal unauthorised computer, why on earth would you need that, are you a terrorist or criminal or something?”
I hope things don’t go quite that far. But I don’t think it’s out of the question.
But computers are so embedded into society that it is simply impossible to go without these services unless you want to get yourself isolated (and potentially in trouble with the authorities).
Lol what?
“If you don’t use Mostodon or Lemmy you might get in trouble with the law!”
Sorry, I meant services like online form application or something
I don’t think I follow. Your going to have to give me examples of what you specifically don’t like.
Don’t like spyware in your OS? Install a FOSS OS. Unfortunately, firmware is mostly still binary blobs (I’m looking at Framework to do something about this but they’re taking a heck of a long time).
You don’t call your loved ones? I’ve yet to hear of companies putting ads inside phone calls. If you’re using a chat app that spies on you but your family doesn’t give a duck about it, use a matrix back-end and self-host it.
Be the change you want to see.
Since people won’t (for example) switch to privacy-respecting comm apps just because I ask them too, I’m building my own self-hosted box that I can duplicate for my family and friends.
My goal is to provide them with a single box solution for DNS filtering (PiHole), media server (including auto disc conversion and sharing between boxes), local backup (which will replicate encrypted backups to the other boxes similar to what Crashplan Personal did), phone backup and management (MDM and file management from PC), image and file sharing (something like Facebook for family only), instant messaging (most likely XMPP), etc, etc.
Yes, it’s a pretty bold plan, but my family and friends are tech illiterate, so if I want to see an improvement in privacy for myself and them, it’s on me to do it, and make it attractive for them.
Look into snikket for XMPP.
Welcome to the club!
I really feel this especially related to mobile (cellphone and tablet) communications: (Google Pixel is the only device offering substantial support for alternative OSes, Mobile Payment Processors rely on one of the big names like Google, Apple, Samsung etc., other projects becoming unmaintained and supporting 10 year old phones, etc.)
In the personal (laptop and desktop) computing space we are in a much better place. You are much less beholden to companies’ interest in harvesting data on every aspect of your life.
Sure, we can lament that most people don’t care. But look where we are now: I have daily driven my Linux box for a year to play all the games that are in style with my friends without Microsoft constantly over my shoulder. I’m on Lemmy and other Fediverse platforms, unbeholden to specific corporate policies. I use Beeper which means I don’t have to have Meta apps harvesting interaction behaviour directly on my primary cellphone. I can’t win every battle for my privacy and freedom, but each conscious choice I have that I make is a statement of resistance, and one step of many towards my ideal of the computer world I wish to be in.
There are plenty of options for personal computers; you have to make the choice to go private and personal.
I built my own desktop, which remains very common and is relatively easy to do. I have Linux and Windows on it, and use Linux nearly 100% as I agree I don’t like ads etc. I use a Firefox with ad blockers and don’t get ads; I use lots of open source software even to access services like Youtube (Free tube).
There are also even linux laptops, and the Frame.Work laptop which is fully modular and bring your own OS.
There are open source OS for phones.
You’re right about the corporatisation of the internet and services, but it remains up to users to vote with their feet and chose to take back their privacy and person computing.
Linux is at 4% of desktop users in recent months - that is many millions of people actively choosing to exist in a space where they control their personal computers. People don’t need to remove computers, just chose to set them up to be what they want them to be.
I’ve been ranting about this a lot lately, but as the owner of mspencer.net (completely useless personal domain, but is 199 days older than wikipedia.org for what it’s worth)…
There is sort of a way to do that, but it’s still labor intensive so not a lot of people do it. Movements to investigate are homelab and selfhosted. Homelab equipment is old (extra power-hungry for the capability you get) or expensive. Self hosting requires a bunch of work to stand things up the way you want it.
Biggest barriers to self hosting - or hosting through your nearest nerdy relative - are the following:
Free ad-supported offerings (with the privacy and terms and conditions impacts you describe) are better and easier, so they out compete DIY options. If a nerdy family member offers to host forums and chat for your community club or whatever, the common response isn’t gratitude, it’s “That’s stupid, I’ll just use Facebook.” Without that need and attention, volunteer projects get way fewer eyeballs and volunteers are way less motivated.
Security is difficult to figure out. Project volunteers have enough on their plate just helping users get their stuff working at all. Helping novice users secure their installations is so much extra work.
Many volunteers feel taken advantage of if they produce something that could help companies make money better, when they don’t share any of the money they make through donations or support arrangements. Similarly, many open source projects get taken over by for-profit companies who diminish efforts to make their open source offerings easier to use for free. (They want companies to buy support contracts, even if it means frustrating use by private individuals without kilobucks to spare.)
but is 199 days older than wikipedia
Oooh, the celebs started showing up on Lemmy!
s/celebs/weebs/
Fixed :-)
I get what you’re saying, like being forced to use whatever the society/work tells you to do. I do experience this sometimes.
But I don’t think I can replace computers as a whole. I can replace social medias (would happily do that in a jiffy) and get into social interactions, but I do watch lots of movies, YT videos etc… and I need them for these. Luckily there are libre frontends and high seas for most of my needs. And I rarely see ads now a days, thanks ublock!
You can use these privacy frontends, ad blockers, VPN connection to block most of the annoying tracking. As for work related thing I am with you.
