$700, and the side by sides look barely different, from my perspective. The chat seemed to have the same opinion.

  • FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    I don’t see the point in this. I’m already planning to get a PC (and a Radeon 7900 XTX will always outperform a PS5), so it’s just more money for no benefit.

  • ZeroTwo@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    They need to pump out more games to justify this. I see no reason to upgrade as mine already sits and collects dust. The controller is super awesome tho, use it all the time for my PC.

  • kingthrillgore@lemmy.ml
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    7 days ago

    Sony’s problems are twofold:

    • They are charging an absurd amount of money for a game console
    • They are selling a game console that has practically no first party games for it.

    If they had plenty of the latter, they could weather this. But there are still games releasing for the PS4, and they have had 1, maybe 2 PS5 releases that would qualify as first party this year (that don’t bubble down to PC).

  • cm0002@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    Ah, continuing with the ugly AF design language I see. Guess I’m skipping the entire PS5 gen then. See you guys for the PS6!

  • zib@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    The PS5 is already a very powerful piece of hardware that most devs aren’t making full use of. I honestly can’t see any justification in a hardware upgrade other than some Sony execs thinking it’ll be the end of the world if they don’t put out something new to make some profit line continue to go up.

    • RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      $200 extra for reflections between cars in GT7 or slightly better shadow resolution is not worth it IMO.

      My PS5 already collects dust as it is, since there are next to no games that actually make use of its hardware that I cannot already buy on PC to run at higher settings.

      • slaacaa@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Sony is definitely living in the past, showing multiple years old upgraded PS4 games to promote the PS5 Pro

      • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        PCs will always outperform consoles in both performance and capability, so have fun being a loser clinging to a failing industry.

        • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          This is dense. The base PS5 for a good portion of is life provided an unbeatable price to performance value. For a long time you’d be taking about $600 for just the GPU.

          They’ve sold 60M units. This crap has been parroted by fanboys on both sides since the 80s.

          • Firestorm Druid@lemmy.zip
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            8 days ago

            We use our PS5 daily to both play games and watch media. It’s invaluable in our household. Using a PC for all that just seems to unnecessarily annoying, convoluted, and uncomfy. Sure, you could use a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard to use it off the sofa but the sheer simplicity of just using a controller to do anything is just awesome. Not even touching upon not needing to do maintenance to the PC, buying newer components once older ones get inevitably obsolete etc etc.

            For me personally, the PS5 has been a hit since day one. And yea, its price was a little steep upfront, but it’s been very much worth the money over the past four years. I don’t get people who unapologetically bash consoles from a sense of superiority. I thought we were past this lol

            • filister@lemmy.world
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              8 days ago

              You can install Plex/Jellyfin on the PC and get a much better experience, watch on the phone, tablet, serve multiple clients, etc.

              So your argument is unsubstantial.

            • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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              8 days ago

              People get real mad when I tell them it’s cheaper because I can rent and resell games. Just yelling no way it’s cheaper because you’re spending $60/ yr for online. It’s become an identity for them.

              • filister@lemmy.world
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                8 days ago

                The best part of the PS5 is that you can buy and sell discs at much more reasonable prices.

                But my feeling is that they will soon start shipping consoles without a disk drive. Maybe PS 6 will be the last one.

                • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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                  8 days ago

                  Big concern of mine. Was a huge concern when steam ruined it on PC 20 years ago. Game fly if you are in the states is worth it’s weight in gold. I played at least $2000 worth of games last year for about $300.

        • BCX@dormi.zone
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          8 days ago

          Have fun insulting random people, love to see how that turns out for you 😂

    • Pacmanlives@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      I agree! I wanted one for another room in my house but at this price point no way I am doing that!!!

      With the last gen and the current gen being basically PC’s what not just go the PC route at this point. I am kind of at that point right now

      • flames5123@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        If you are the only one playing the PlayStation, you can do remote play via the computer, phone ,or even from a PS4.

      • ampersandrew@lemmy.worldOP
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        8 days ago

        You might look into the mini PC form factor and throw Bazzite on it for a Steam console-esque experience.

        • TexasDrunk@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          I have a few of these running HoloISO running around the house to stream graphic intense games from my main rig and to run smaller games locally. Runs fine with a 680m iGPU and I never have to leave the room I’m in (garage included) to play games if I want.

          It cost more than a console, but far less than the 5 consoles I’d have to put out for that kind of convenience.

      • jacksilver@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        That’s actually why I went with the Xbox this cycle. I got a series x for the large TV and a $200 (on sale) series S for the smaller one (although we usually just use a computer monitor and play side by side on the couch).

  • Swarfega@lemm.ee
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    8 days ago

    Not worth it. The PS5 games catalogue is piss poor compared to when the PS4 Pro released.

    • GoodEye8@lemm.ee
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      8 days ago

      Kinda hard to make a solid catalogue when you follow the live service trend and your projects flop one after another.

    • PunchingWood@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      Frankly that’s just thinking with only PS5 exclusives in mind.

      A lot of people, probably the vast majority, don’t get an Xbox or PlayStation for the exclusives. They just get one because they don’t own or want a gaming PC and look for the easier more accessible solution.

      So to them the catalogue is just fine because they don’t get the console just for the exclusives.

      • yamanii@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        If what you said was true, Xbox would be in a much better position though, COD and EAFC are there too after all.

        • PunchingWood@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          I’m not saying that exclusives didn’t play a part entirely, but even when the PS5 was hard to get by it was still cheaper than the Xbox that were in stock (where I live).

          Despite the low amount of exclusive games it would still be an easy pick to get a PS5 instead, if people decided to upgrade at some point. And since a lot of cross-platform/console games were still coming out on the old consoles for a while there was little reason to get an Xbox instead of a PS if they wanted a new console right then right there.

      • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
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        8 days ago

        I dunno I haven’t really been excited for any of the games released over the last couple years. It seems like nothing but legacy games like COD/Battlefield/Destiny and a few gems like Elden Ring. Most of these big studios seem to be laying off employees or shutting down instead of releasing new games. Part of this is just me being burnt out on gaming, but with so many studios struggling, it seems like it’s more than just me feeling like this.

        • PunchingWood@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          Thing is that isn’t true for everyone, I am done with games like CoD and FIFA, but a huge majority of players is not. Hence why these games keep selling just fine.

      • ViscloReader@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Things like this actually makes me sad because you know who to blame for the games failure yet you also know who will take the blame and who will leave with a golden parachute.

        • ampersandrew@lemmy.worldOP
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          8 days ago

          I try to focus on the part where the thing they were building was inherently bad for video games, so this makes it less likely for it to happen again.

  • De_Narm@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    I’m still waiting for a reason to get a PS5 at all, everything I’ve been interested still got released on PS4 too - except for one single game.

    I really don’t care for better specs anymore, I probably couldn’t even tell PS4 and PS5 games apart without a side-by-side comparison. Not to mention, to see a difference at all I’d need a new TV on top of the console. Not gonna happen anytime soon.

    • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
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      8 days ago

      One major improvement with the PS5 is the instant loading times. I don’t think this thing will be any faster in that regard but it’s a major improvement over the PS4. The other improvement over my original PS4 is that it doesn’t sound like a jet engine after 20 minutes of running.

      Ray tracing is cool but what console games are even using it at this point? It’s like them advertising “8K capable” as if anyone gives a shit about that during a time that 4k is just barely becoming the standard for most.

    • warm@kbin.earth
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      8 days ago

      Consoles are a dying breed, especially Xbox and Playstation. Almost every exclusive ends up on PC anyway now, even then I personally don’t think there’s any game worth spending this much on hardware to play. There’s literally no point in buying an Xbox or Playstation unless you really really don’t want to bother with a PC setup.

      I bet the market will end up as just PC and mobile.

        • warm@kbin.earth
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          8 days ago

          We will see when Playstation 6 releases, its unlikely to sell as much as PS5 did, let alone PS4. Microsoft already realised the decline and are jumping into games as a service for the Xbox brand, ideally they would want you to just stream their games, as shitty as that is. With Xbox gone, there’s no competition and with Sony being Sony, they are going to abuse that to squeeze any extra money they can from people still willing.

          PC became a lot more affordable and accessible in the last decade and it doesn’t lock you into a closed ecosystem, you can upgrade when you want, you don’t have to pay subscriptions to play online games.

          Kids are more exposed to PC gaming than ever before, with all the popular ‘content creators’ primarily playing on PC, so they are naturally swayed to it more than consoles.

          I hear so many stories of people switching to PC, friends asking me for advice for what to buy for themselves or their children.

          Circana’s May 2024 U.S. video game market highlights, the analytics company reported that video game hardware spending is down 40% compared to 2023. Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony have all shown “double-digit percentage declines,” with the Nintendo Switch seeing the “most significant drop.”

          The writing is on the wall, it would take a big change to swing back the other way. There’s a reason they are dying for GTA 6 to release.

          • Frypant@lemmy.world
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            8 days ago

            Most of the replies about ps5 pro is complaining about the price. Your point is, PC is somehow a better choice while the video card alone cost this much or more.

            So no, I don’t think consoles will disappear, more likely streaming will improve to the point of being a real alternative and that will take over the people buying consoles. In fact it could be an alternative to PC as well, for non-competitive gaming.

            The sales decline is because console companies don’t provide good enough reason to upgrade, and the market is saturated, not because people moving to Pc. Here I am rocking my xbox one pro still with no desire to upgrade.

            • warm@kbin.earth
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              8 days ago

              That’s just not true. You can make an entire PC for the price of the PS5 Pro. You can get a GPU that is a bit more powerful than a PS5 Pro GPU for ~$300. People normally spend more on PCs though because of the longevity it provides and you can use it for a lot more than just games. Just looking at Steam data, there’s a yearly increase of MAUs (their concurrent count just peaked 3 days ago at 37.6M) where Playstation has plateaued.

              Time will tell, but I think consoles will fade away, either through lack of appeal or turning into stream boxes as you say. Thanks for the conversation!

              • xan1242@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                6 days ago

                To top it off, what matters at the end of the day js this - people generally don’t care about graphics anymore!

                Even if you end up with graphics that are worse than a console, you still have:

                • an option to upgrade later
                • options to configure graphics (generally games actually optimize themselves pretty well nowadays)
                • an open platform to do things the way you want

                PS5 Pro makes absolutely no sense to me.

              • Katana314@lemmy.world
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                8 days ago

                If a PC GPU is only slightly better than a console counterpart, typically its games will run slightly worse - since it loses the benefit of devs spending time optimizing for that profile.

                • warm@kbin.earth
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                  8 days ago

                  You can adjust settings on PC, so you can trade off some useless post processing and other settings to push the frame rates way higher than console games, which are generally 60fps (or 120fps in some cases, if you run “performance mode”).

  • Ech@lemm.ee
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    8 days ago

    Is there an eli5 on how “ai upscaling” is less (or even equally) technologically demanding than just putting in better hardware?

    • Thorry84@feddit.nl
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      8 days ago

      The game is rendered at a lower resolution, this saves a lot of resources. This isn’t a linear thing, lowering the resolution reduces the performance needed by a lot more than you would think. Not just in processing power but also bandwidth and memory requirements. Then dedicated AI cores or even special AI scaler chips get used to upscale the image back to the requested resolution. This is a fixed cost and can be done with little power since the components are designed to do this task.

      My TV for example has an AI scaler chip which is pretty nice (especially after tuning) for showing old content on a large high res screen. For games applying AI up scaling to old textures also does wonders.

      Now even though this gets the AI label slapped on, this is nothing like the LMMs such as chat GPT. These are expert systems trained and designed to do exactly one thing. This is the good kind of AI that’s actually useful instead of the BS AI like LLMs. Now these systems have their limitations, but for games the trade off between details and framerate can be worth it. Especially if our bad eyes and mediocre screens wouldn’t really show the difference anyways.

      • Ech@lemm.ee
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        8 days ago

        The game is rendered at a lower resolution, this saves a lot of resources.

        Then dedicated AI cores or even special AI scaler chips get used to upscale the image back to the requested resolution.

        I get that much. Or at least, I get that’s the intention.

        This is a fixed cost and can be done with little power since the components are designed to do this task.

        This us the part I struggle to believe/understand. I’m roughly aware of how resource intensive upscaling is on locally hosted models. The necessary tech/resources to do that to 4k+ in real time (120+ fps) seems at least equivalent, if not more expensive, to just rendering it that way in the first place. Are these “scaler chips” really that much more advanced/efficient?

        Further questions aside, I appreciate the explanation. Thanks!

        • Thorry84@feddit.nl
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          8 days ago

          Rendering a 3D scene is much more intensive and complicated than a simple scaler. The scaler isn’t advanced at all, it’s actually very simple. And it can’t be compared with running a large model locally. These are expert systems, not large models. They are very good at one thing and can do only that thing.

          Like I said the cost is fixed, so if the scaler can handle 1080p at 120fps to upscale to 2K, then it can always handle that. It doesn’t matter how complex or simple the image is, it will always use the same amount of power. It reads the image, does the calculation and outputs the resulting image.

          Rendering a 3D scene is much much more complex and power intensive. The amount of power highly depends on the complexity of the scene and there is a lot more involved. It needs the gpu, cpu, memory and even sometimes storage, plus all the bandwidth and latency in between.

          Upscaling isn’t like that, it’s a lot more simple. So if the hardware is there, like the AI cores on a gpu or the dedicated upscaler chip, it will always work. And since that hardware will normally not be heavily used, the rest of the components are still available for the game. A dedicated scaler is the most efficient, but the cores on the gpu aren’t bad either. That’s why something like DLSS doesn’t just work on any hardware, it needs specialized components. And different generations and parts have different limitations.

          Say your system can render a game at 1080p at a good solid 120fps. But you have a 2K monitor, so you want the game to run at 2K. This requires a lot more from the system, so the computer struggles to run the game at 60 fps and has annoying dips in demanding parts. With upscaling you run the game at 1080p at 120fps and the upscaler takes that image stream and converts it into 2K at a smooth 120fps. Now the scaler may not get all the details right, like running native 2K and it may make some small mistakes. But our eyes are pretty bad and if we’re playing games our brains aren’t looking for those details, but are instead focused on gameplay. So the output is probably pretty good and unless you were to compare it with 2K native side by side, probably you won’t even notice the difference. So it’s a way of having that excellent performance, without shelling out a 1000 bucks for better hardware.

          There are limitations of course. Not all games conform to what the scaler is good at. It usually does well with realistic scenes, but can struggle with more abstract stuff. It can get annoying halos and weird artifacts. There are also limitations to what bandwidth it can push, so for example not all gpus can do 4K at a high framerate. If the game uses the AI cores as well for other stuff, that can become an issue. If the difference in resolution is too much, that becomes very noticeable and unplayable. Often there’s also the option to use previous frames to generate intermediate frames, to boost the framerate with little cost. In my experience this doesn’t work well and just makes the game feel like it’s ghosting and smearing.

          But when used properly, it can give a nice boost basically for free. I have even seen it used where the game could be run at a lower quality at the native resolution and high framerate, but looked better at a lower resolution with a higher quality setting and then upscaled. The extra effects outweighed the small loss of fidelity.

      • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        8 days ago

        This is the good kind of AI that’s actually useful instead of the BS AI like LLMs

        lol, trying to hedge against downvotes from the anti-AI crowd?

    • yamanii@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      It started as good tech to make GPUs last longer, but now is a crutch that even top notch hardware like a 4090 needs to actually achieve playable performance with ray tracing at high resolutions. And that hardware is already way overpriced, imagine the price of something that could do it natively.

  • mintiefresh@lemmy.ca
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    8 days ago

    I can’t see how this is worth it for anyone. Are there even games that are pushing the current PS5?

    No disc drive either.

  • themurphy@lemmy.ml
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    8 days ago

    Not really on topic, but AI upscaling is no joke. It’s actually very useful and saves alot processing power. Same with the extra fps, making a 30fps into a 60fps with ease.

    • warm@kbin.earth
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      8 days ago

      No game should be running down at 60fps these days, especially with any sort of upscaling. Native performance should be the only measured metric, no need for shortcuts when hardware is as good as it is.

  • Hal-5700X@sh.itjust.works
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    8 days ago

    Why not go PC at this point. Modern consoles are locked pre-built PCs and paying $700 for a locked system is crazy.

    • BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one
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      8 days ago

      Because of the hope that at some point someone smart will discover an exploit that will allow everyone to install their own homebrew and possibly a completely different OS which will result in a good spec PC with powerful GPU for extremely cheap.

  • catalyst@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    At this price I’m so glad I decided to go for a slim instead of holding out for the pro. Absolutely no way.