i guess if someone’s putting up their lights backwards, then it makes sense that that person also thinks it’s less work to drive to the hardware store and buy a non-existent extension cord than it is to just redo the lights
as someone who has strung a ton of lights the wrong way around on more than one occasion… I can understand the desire for some magic solution that doesnt require undoing and redoing your work…
but fuck, You don’t mess around with electricity.
People also make these stupid suicide cables to plug generators into houses during disasters, often backfeeding power into the lines that may be down and can cause serious injury to workers trying to restore power.
FYI, you can just turn off the main breaker of the residence to prevent backfeeding into the power lines.
… Except the breaker only interrupts the connection on the “hot” line…
You can, but if forgetting to flip a switch can result in death, then you need a stronger safety control
Someone incompetent enough to forget to shut off the main shouldn’t be operating a generator anyway.
Someone who’s not competent enough to install a proper transfer switch (or at least hire a professional to do it) shouldn’t be operating a generator.
That’s not the point. Normal, sensible people make mistakes because they are tired or stressed or got distracted or just plain unlucky, so things have to be designed so that people can make a mistake and it not instantly create a potentially lethal situation
I don’t think you completely understand what’s being discussed here.
If someone can’t make the own cord, what’s the chance they know how vital it is to flip the breaker?
Yeah, there is a reason why proper installations require actual transfer switches or at least a manual interlock to prevent both feeds being connected at the same time. I’m also not sure what would happen if your generator was out of phase with the grid when it reenergised, but I’m sure it wouldn’t be good
If your generator was connected to mains when they came back on it would probably just kill your generator. It is the least robust device in the chain. The next step is blowing up the transformer on the pole which is a spectacular light show. It is also very expensive, and will piss off your entire neighborhood who were just about to get power back and now have to wait for the power company to fix the transformer you blew up by being a dumb ass. Finally it is possible that you would trip out the switch yard which is going to make even more people angry. The biggest risk is you putting power back on the lines that people are working on. That transformer on the pole works both directions. It drops the usual 13.8kV on your local power lines to the 240/120V in your house. It will also turn the 120/240 from your generator into 13.8 on the lines that are being worked on. 13.8 will kill you before you even know you touched it. That is why line workers go through multiple tests before they get near lines they are working on. They will notice there is power on lines that are supposed to be dead. They will find where that power is coming from. They will fine you lots of money. There may be criminal charges.
I’m not American, Christmas lights aren’t a thing here like they’re in the US, can someone explain?
Their lights usually have a plug on one end and a socket on the other. Ppl put them around the exterior of their hoses, then realise they did it the wrong way, and the socket end is near the outlet they wanted to plug them in.
Or they mounted two strands of lights, and where they meet up it’s either 2 plugs or two sockets accidentally.
A strand of christmas lights resembles an extension cord, but they tend to be made of smaller gauge wire and obviously have little sockets for tiny light bulbs spaced along them. They typically have 2-prong male plug on one end, often with a 2-prong female pass through on the back so you could plug more than one strand into the same receptacle, and they usually end in a female plug so they can be daisy chained.
Sometimes, when installing them on a house or something, the person installing them may not pay attention to which direction is which, and end up installing them so that the female-only end is near where they intended to plug them in. So instead of pulling them down, or running a long extension cord, they go to the hardware store looking for a male-to-male plug adapter.
Power plugs and sockets are gendered for a very good reason; the female receptacle keeps the energized contacts protected inside, and the male plug’s contacts should only be energized when plugged in and their outer shells protect them. A male-to-male cable when one end is plugged in and the other is free now has exposed mains current just waving around in the open air ready to kill someone. And, on a smaller note with christmas lights, they usually have a fuse built into the plug, and plugging them in backwards bypasses this for at least the first strand, so it’s technically 102.7% unsafe to do this.
The other thing a male-to-male adapter or cable is sometimes used for is to attach a portable generator to your home’s electrical system by just plugging it into an outlet, especially during a power failure. They do make what are essentially special male receptacles I think mainly for the RV industry for attaching generators like that, most houses won’t have these. Plugging it into a normal wall socket will actually work, but 1. you have bypassed the breaker panel, so the breakers no longer provide over-current protection. You could overheat the wires in the walls and burn down the house. 2. there’s a possibility that you’re feeding electricity to the entire house through the breaker box and even out to the transformer, which means the lines could be energized for linemen working on them. Throwing the main breaker might prevent that? They make switching gear designed for buildings with their own backup generators that can either manually or automatically sever their connection to the grid when on internal power, but again a doofus trying to make one of these cables probably doesn’t have one of those.
Wow. I had no idea. Thank you for educating me.
Outstanding, thank you for this
Strand of exterior lights, one end male plug one female. Idiots start to mount the lights with the female end near their outlet. Get done, become confused, go to store for male to male cord to plug into female end.
The female end is for chaining multiple strands, not for supplying power (directly) from the power socket.
The power can go through the female end just fine, that’s not the problem. The problem is people plug this “suicide cable” into the wall first, thus creating a 120v taser of sorts. Like someone else in this thread said, the only problem from cables like that is people tend to try to backfeed energy into the system with a generator or solar panels. Boom.
Also, at the end of the chain there is a male terminal exposed with live current. Could cause a fire I guess.
So is the problem solved by not plugging it into a powered wall plug? Just like… flick the switch off, like you would a light switch before changing a bulb?
Most American outlets aren’t switched. They can be but most aren’t. If you’re really paranoid you can throw the breaker at the panel.
Wait really? I don’t think I have a single unswitched plug in my house, and I’ve never seen another house with even a single unswitched plug. Do US people need to unplug cords to get rid of standby lights?
Behold the typical North American duplex power outlet. They typically do not have a built in switch. They might be controlled by a light switch, so you can throw a switch near the door and have the floor lamps turn on but most are always hot.
That’s Australia’s.
Because of the no switch, does US plugs spark a lot when getting plugged in?
The solution is pulling down your Christmas lights and hanging them back up the right way.
Yes, but if someone trips over the cord there is a 50% chance the wrong side comes unplugged and potentially kills them, hence why they don’t make these cords
Aaah, gotcha! Thank you!
Isnt having an open end really dangerous?
You cam cover them with electric tape or put a cover on them. It’s nobmore dangerous than your home’s exterior outlets though.
Homes exterior outlets??? It might be europe but we dont have neither of those seemingly pretty dangerous things.
I’m going to assume you are English, since they seem to have extreme fear of electric shocks. But there is never any issue with exterior outlets. 99% of them have covers like this and are no nore dangerous that light switches on a patio or in your bathroom.
The places where i lived for longer times are hungary, sweden and ireland. Ireland has the same plug as the uk, and in hungary and sweden its the general eu plug. While the plug you linked does seem mostly safe, i think its a good thing that the uk takes electrical safety seriously. My main problem with the female plug is its a christmas tree that can catch on fire and i dont think an exposed wire near it is a good idea. If the cover is required in some way to complete the circuit then i have no problem with it. Thats good design but the sad thing is most of times they skip the good design part.
Thr cover doesn’t complete the circuit, it just prevents debris getting into the socket. An extension cord doesn’t have a cover on the female end and it is completely safe, just like an outlet in a bathroom or a surge protector.
Gfci outlets are pretty cool technology. They make getting electrocuted impossible as long they are installed correctly.
…in europe. From what i heard america doesnt really have them.
Considering they are required by code to have them anywhere there is water. America does have them.
Every Christmas light string I have seen has had a small fuse inside of the plug, so even if you managed to get a female plug full of water or something and somehow manage to get shocked before a breaker trips in the outlet, you’re probably just going to blow the fuse.
Every Christmas light I’ve ever seen were all low voltage. The last Christmas light that was directly into main power instead of having a power convertor plug was decades ago. I guess that’s EU regulations at work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-4mvK2FW78
Plugging the cord in the same outlet isn’t dangerous itself, but the prongs will be live on the end that’s not plugged in, I’d suggest not touching them. Where it IS dangerous is when people try to use them with a generator to back feed their panel. Don’t do that.
Also known as a “nope rope”
We call them a Deadman’s cable up here, and sadly they’re still quite frequently used in the northern rural areas because it costs almost $2,000 to have a dedicated bypass switch installed(generator hookup) so nobody does it, they just throw the Main and hope they don’t put too much stress on the internal lines.
Is it legal? Hell no but they do it anyway
I did this.
Is it stupid? Yes. Did it work? Also yes. For the amount of time that we’d have power out, it was just way to easy to throw a breaker and connect it like this just to keep a small heater and a light running. If I had the money at the time I would have loved battery backup/ bypass but this cost $2 and an old cord.There are way cheaper ways to have a safe interconnect then those second box systems. There are kits that install a plate next to the main breaker and prevent both the main breaker and the next closest breaker from both being on at the same time. You then setup the second breaker to be your generator inlet. Here’s a DIY version, but there are kits for all major brands.
Especially considering that having a functional stove nowadays skyrockets your insurance. A lot of people used to use wood stoves as the backup heat source if the power went out, we still have one ourselves however it’s “non-functional” , it probably is to be honest it hasn’t been ran for a few years now but it was going to Skyrocket the insurance if we had it listed as a functional Appliance
I thought that was a snake…
Those are danger noodles
What what’s a safe danger noodle then? I thought those were nope ropes.
its not a danger noodle if its safe. its a safe noodle.
According to the google, non-venemous snakes are nope ropes. Venemous ones are danger noodles.
I wouldn’t plug both ends of a snake into the mains either.
The lord chord
I worked at an electrical supply store foe a while. The amount of people trying to make these is really way too damn high. At least once a week.
I made one of those once by accident. I was talking a long extension cord that had been cut in two and converting it into two smaller cords. I messed up and attached the male to the wrong cable.
We intentionally made suicide cords all the time at my old job lol
Just use 2 paper clips and some duct tape, problem solved!
I don’t really get it. Sure, the exposed prongs would be energized once you plugged one side in, but if you plugged the other side into a second outlet (assuming you didn’t cross live/neutral), nothing would happen. (those two outlets were likely tied together anyway)
Double live is very bad and the cord becomes a literal short. If you’re lucky a breaker will flip or fuse burn out. If you’re not so lucky you have a cable thats either going to start a fire burning its insulation off and melting itself, or potentially exploding depending on quality and type of cable.
The problem really is the super exposed hot prong you now have once you plug one end in
50-50 chance whether those two outlets are on the same phase or opposite faces; if it’s the latter, congrats, that’s a 240V short.
Besides, if there’s an outlet at the far end of your strong of lights, you don’t need this, you just plug it in there
Two things: 1: there’s a high chance you do cross live and neutral, or even live and live on different phases. 2: using it to plug in a generator to power your house can kill electrical workers who are trying to restore a power outage. (If you fail to open your circuit breaker.)
Well, maybe it’s because you may die if you accidentally touched touched the prongs? The purpose of female plugs is among other reasons to prevent accidentally touching them.
I guess the fact that it can kill you easily is not enough to call it a suicide cable lmao
Yeah, let’s call it a self defence cable instead. Like a corded taser.
In addition to the exposed prongs, it also means you are passing current into a circuit of unknown capacity without using a safety breaker. You may also be back feeding into your neighborhood power grid and can kill people in the street/other houses that were not expecting the lines to be energized.
You don’t work around dangerous things assuming you’ll never make a mistake, you work around dangerous things assuming you’ll never make three mistakes at the same time.
You are not immune to making one (or more) mistakes, no matter how careful you think you are.
Correction: you don’t work around dangerous things assuming you’ll make a mistake long
So if these are people wiring their Christmas lights wrong, assuming these are led lights, doesn’t this “solution” not work bc of the polarity anyway? Or is that only a DC thing with diodes? I only did okay in my physics electricity stuff lol
Let me introduce you to the FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIER!
It would still work. But it is VERY dangerous. 1. The far end of the light string will now have exposed metal prongs that are energized at 120v, which can be fatal. 2. If the other end gets plugged into a socket, there is a 50% chance it will be a different circuit on a different phase, which can create a 240v direct short, across a wire that has no properly sized circuit breaker. 3. Using it to plug a generator into your house during a power outage can kill electrical workers trying to fix the outage if you fail to open your circuit breakers.
I knew that much, I was more interested in how diodes work on AC lol
In AC, diodes work half the time, every 1/60 second. The “good” LEDs will have circuitry to fully rectify the AC into DC, drop the voltage properly, and smooth the peaks and valleys, so they will be continuously lit. So the cheap LED Christmas lights might have a slight flicker, and the good ones are steady. (Or get fancy with chasing colors, etc.)
All of that happens inside each of the “bulb” enclosures, or sometimes in a box at one end, so it technically doesn’t matter which end they are getting electricity from, since the socket at the far end is still just connected in parallel to the plug at the near end. (Otherwise you wouldn’t be able to link them together.)
It’s just a really bad dangerous idea to reverse them.
For simple stuff such as those lights, polarity is usually not a problem when using AC.
In case of AC (Alternating Current), instead of having a + and - pole, you have a Line and a Neutral terminal.
The Line terminal goes + … - … + … - … + … - with time and the Neutral stays at 0.
When connecting to LEDs and such, you have an AC to DC converter, which tends to be fine no matter which pin you put in which hole.
Ah, so that’s why it’s half power compared to DC, makes sense.
Unless the AC is a square wave, in which case stuff becomes different.
-
Not really.
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Where on earth would Mains be a square wave?
Low quality UPS Inverter
That’s not what Mains means.
As far as the appliance cares, it is the only input power it gets at that time.
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Kinda, it’s half the power because the power goes like the temporal average of the current squared, the current oscillates like sine or cosine, and the temporal average of a sine or cosine squared is 1/2.
In household wiring polarity does matter, especially if you are assembling plugs. Only one of the three wires is carrying live current (hot), the other two are the neutral return path, and ground which is for safety. If you accidentally switch polarity, you can cross hot to neutral and cause a short circuit.
Switching the neutral and hot pins doesn’t matter except for appliances with exposed metal tied to the neutral pin, which is pretty much exclusive Edison screw lamps. This is why many plugs (especially those that immediately go to a rectifier) don’t bother with polarization.
Swtching hot and ground is a problem
My bad. I wasn’t clear enough.
I was talking about 2 pin plugs, as shown in the post and how it is usually for those cheap lighting thingies.
No, alternating current doesn’t have a polarity like DC does.
I used it to connect a generator to the wall and give me some temporary power in my house when I was renovating. It’s only dangerous if you are stupid.
Just because you didn’t get hurt doesn’t mean it wasn’t dangerous.
There’s a reason the people who write the fire and electrical codes say that if you need to do something like that, you need to have a properly installed transfer switch.
I mean, driving a car is dangerous, everything has a risk inherent to it but you can minimise it by being prudent.
Yes, you minimize risk by being prudent and using reasonable and cost effective safety measures.
In a car, that’s things like seatbelts, airbags, and other safety features.
The equivalent for powering your house with a generator is the aforementioned transfer switch.
What you’re doing is saying that driving a car without seatbelts or airbags is perfectly safe, you just need to not get in an accident.
Stop powering your house with a generator plugged in via the dumbest possible cable and just install a fucking transfer switch. They’re not expensive and it keeps you from needlessly endangering people, or even just having a preposterously dangerous cord laying around.
You turn off the breaker. You plug your generator abomination into a receptacle. Your partner checks the panel – the breakers are off, it’s safe to work with the electrical! They kill themselves.
You could just not be a threat to yourself and people around you.
The backup-generator seems to be the one semi-legit use-case that keeps coming up where few people have been able to present a significantly better alternative.
There’s literally an approved solution to the problem designed explicitly to solve the problem.
Install a transfer switch so you can disconnect utility power, switch to your generator and people can see the situation at the breaker.
If you don’t have one, you use something called an “extension cord” to run power to your important devices for the duration of the outage.
If you don’t know how to power a few appliances with a generator and some extension cords, you definitely shouldn’t be thinking you can use a dangerous cable that people who do know you should never use in the first place.The safe method for a generator is a transfer switch. With that cable you make your circuit breaker useless and could also send power back out to the street and harm someone working on the problem.
Not smart. You could kill yourself or some poor electrician working the problem outside your house somewhere.
My old boss had one, for when power went out, he could back feed from his car to the house. I never touched it.
Good thing you never touched it. What your boss did is possible and if he really understands what he is doing and is not connected to the grid then he can do it. But for any ordinary homeowner absolutely do not try this. You could burn your house down or even worse kill some poor lineman/electrician working on the problem somewhere else on the grid who isn’t expecting the equipment he’s working on to go live out of nowhere.
Exactly this. It’s so insanely selfish and pretty illegal.
That said, 120v backfeed is unlikely to kill and linemen kind of expect and test for residual current because of accidents like this causing falls, but it doesn’t mean it’s okay, and the chances of hurting someone are still non-zero.
But doesn’t the transformer convert the current back up? So it could be way more than 120v on a line that they’re expecting to be shut down. At least that’s my understanding of it.
But either way yeah, they probably check for it, but no you shouldn’t do it because you there’s a possibility that you could kill someone.
You’d have to be pumping up quite a bit I think to reverse through the residential transformer with just your little generac home unit, but you may be correct if there are no one way circuits or backfeed fuses. Even so, hopefully it wouldn’t kill. Home voltage stepped up would lose its amperage and be like an extremely anemic taser potentially.
I’d love to hear from an electrical worker on the topic, but yea, it’s the amps that kill more than the volts.
cries in ground fault circuit interruptor
No problem.
I got these baddies
Memories. Me and my friends used to zap eachother with these before social media made everyone into cowards
I’m guessing your turn was last and that’s why you’re still here.
Nah but we did stop when we took out the neighbourhood’s power with our fooling. Just as well since I’ve since heard it’s quite dangerous
All I got to zap was myself.
Ok boomer
It didn’t take the internet for people to be fearful and cautious around high voltage…
Looks pretty weak sauce. I use jumper cables.
