Everyone knows the only acceptable formats are .pdf and .tex, everything else should be shunned out of society.
.tex
Ha, lamers. A true wizard writes their assignments in roff.
roff? Ha poser! I use CTSS /s
Nah, I hand code my postscript on magnetic core memory with a geomag stud.
.tex is a source format, not a presentation format, and as such should not be valid in a submission field.
they should take .ps though.
Dvi file then.
Hmmm, a compress folder full of the .tex and the resources.
i’m not sending anything that can be edited. last time i did that as a consultant they stripped our company logo out of the documents.
Wait until you find out that absolutely anything can be edited
not by joe doofus
.pdf can contain malware
But the entire paper in a .jpeg would be hilariousAny format can really contain malware
good ol virus.txt
I wonder how people actually work with LaTeX.
Do you actually write all the headers and stuff manually through a TeX editor, or do you use tools that do it for you?
Because the former sounds incredibly tedious.
I do both, but usually I use markdown to write the texts because it features basic formatting like headers and bold text, but it’s faster and easier to write. Then I use pandoc to convert it into .tex and do the final editing and adjusting directly in Latex.
I believe Zettlr editor uses pandoc to convert MD to LaTeX.
Indeed needs some manual tinkering, as long as I remember, at least since MD is not so feature-rich :D
But thanks for the recommendation!
Yes, I also use Zettlr and it works fine. Especially with the Zotero integration. But you are right, it sometimes needs some tweaks to work fine.
I used LyX when I authored some papers
Do you actually write all the headers and stuff
I’ve used Latex as my go-to tool for writing anything that needs formatting for years, and I’m not quite sure I understand what you mean?
I start off my document with a
documentclassstatement, which is one line…? And then I will sometimesusepackagea couple things for further document-wide formatting, but we’re still talking about a small handful of lines (like 5-10 at most).The preamble can grow quite large for big documents with a lot of specific formatting, but I have some boilerplate preambles with the most common packages lying around that I can copy-paste in. Usually however, the preamble grows as you’re writing the document and you add things dynamically as you need them.
I would love to give you a better answer to your question, since my impression is that pretty much no one that swaps to Latex ever looks back, and I would love to help you learn. Feel free to expand on what you mean by “all the headers and stuff” and I’ll try to give a better answer :)
Oh, this is based on my first impression I had a while back when I noped out of it :D
This is less of a detailed problem description and more like a scream over perceived complexity of something that should be so simple, especially for someone who’s very far from programming or advanced computing overall.
Outside of documentclass, there are all the paragraph, section, title, there are all the packages introducing all sorts of things (like, why there’s a need for external PACKAGES inside a TEXT DOCUMENT?! Why are they required to do the very basics that are somehow not covered by the base kit?!) etc.
Tables are straight up scary to write in LaTeX, you insert all the parameters and then write it out like some sort of matrix but without any decent sctructure; and plotting - I didn’t even try to comprehend it.
Overall, it feels like some unnecessarily nerdy way to edit docs. Probably powerful, but same sort of powerful as editing configs to customize things. Please, make it any sort of user-friendly!
Ahh, now I understand! I’ll try my best to make it less scary :)
To start off
why is there a need for external packages for a text document?
There usually isn’t, as long as you only want a simple document. The most basic thinkable document would be
\documentclass{article} \begin{document} This is the text in my document \end{document}However, you’ll likely want a title and author, so you can start off with
\documentclass{article} \title{Fishes are nice} \author{Definitely not Jason Mamoa} \begin{document} \maketitle \section{Introduction} This is a text about why fishes are nice. \end{document}You have your “Super basic document”, with at title and author. You can make simple formatting changes by modifying the
documentclassstatement at the top. My recommendation with all the external packages (usepackage) is to look them up one-by-one as you need them. You’ll typically find a small handfull of packages that you need very often, and then you’ll probably end up copy-pasting those declarations over whenever you create a new document. For most basic documents I’m using like 2-5 packages at most (fancy math fonts, hyperlinks, pretty bibliography, etc.)Tables are straight up scary
They take a little getting used to, I agree. For someone working a lot with tables, I would recommend getting used to them, but if you only very rarely need them, there are “graphical editors” that let you build a table in a GUI and then give you the Latex code for it. Overleaf has an integrated “visual editing” mode that makes the barrier to entry lower. However I don’t really recommend it for someone that really wants to learn to use Latex, because I think it prevents people from progressing past the very basics.
plotting - I didn’t even try to comprehend it
I’ve used Latex for years, specifically writing documents with a lot of plots. I have yet to attempt to learn to plot directly in Latex. I know some people that will create figures and plots directly in Latex, and I respect them. I use inkscape for figures, and python for plotting, and can get stuff looking pretty awesome that way. Learning to draw/plot directly in Latex is by no means a must.
Please, make it any sort of user-friendly!
As with other powerful tools, I think people are often overwhelmed coming in because of the massive number of possibilities, and the fine-grained control that is possible. My recommendation is to start out with something like the above, and progressively add complexity as you need it. Most people don’t require more than basic section (and sub- subsub- etc.) headers, tables, figures, and equations. In that case, you’ll need like 3-5 external packages and 3-5 “commands” (stuff like
\begin{equation}). If you start out with the above example, you’ll probably learn the basics on your own in a couple hours :)I’ve held some latex-courses for beginners, so if you want, I could send you the “basic starting file” that the people taking the course have completed writing (with help) after about two hours :) I’ve been told that most of them feel pretty comfortable learning on their own once they have that.
Wow, I appreciate the time and effort you put into this, and yes, it sounds a bit reassuring :)
I probably feel the way computer noobs feel when someone here enthusiastically calls them to join Linux lol (I already did, no need to advocate here! :D)
And yes, with that in mind, I’ll give it another spin. I’d like to have that basic file example!
Sorry for taking some time, monday morning suddenly hit me in the face… I’ve put up some files here that you should be able to download. The files can be opened with any plain-text editor (notepad, textedit, or similar).
My recommendation is to create an account on overleaf, click “create new project”, and upload the files there. Then you can hit “recompile” to see how the document looks. My guess is that you’ll figure out how stuff works pretty quickly just by modifying that file. If what you want to write is a simple document, you can really just get going :)
Feel free to let me know if you have any issues :)
Thanks! Will try
Also, hey, you share treasure trove of info and then say sorry? :)
I’m thankful you have shared it!
The former, it becomes easy and “natural” fast, as you memorize the stuff, eventually you become so used to being able to specify how the document should be specifically that using WYSIWYG stuff like word is awful, you start to fight with the document editor…
But there is stuff like overleaf if you want something less direct, it is still LaTeX but it has tools and Whatnots to do it easier.
Thanks!
I used typst for my thesis and a couple of assignments and can absolutely recommend it. Easier syntax and ultra fast compilation.
- If it’s meant to be pretty, portable, and read-only: pdf
- If it’s text with no formatting: txt
- If it’s formatted and read-write: md
Mine accepted both. The professor read it from a web app anyway.
🤮
agreed
Mine accepted rtf.
Another proprietary Microsoft format:
I once failed a uni assignment, because the teachers assistant wrote remarks on a pdf in a way that’s only viewable in adobe’s products.
She failed is because “we ignored her remarks”. Had no idea they were there.
Tbh it’s probably less of an Adobe problem and more due to the absolute mess that is PDF annotations.
Despite being a defined open standard, most free PDF viewers either don’t support them (zathura etc), or fuck them up (GNOME evince). Even some of the viewers that do support them like Okular need extra configuration.
Unironically Firefox as a PDF viewer actually has the best support for PDF annotations.
The state of PDF Readers on Linux - Discussion - It’s FOSS Community - https://itsfoss.community/t/the-state-of-pdf-readers-on-linux/12798
Ooh I would fucking LAY into her in the review if she did that, and cause a stink to the dean. That shit would’ve pissed me off so bad. I hate when people expect you to be telepathic like that.
To be honest she probably didn’t even know that the comments were only visible to Adobe product readers, but that’s still infuriating as hell
All pdfs must be flattened! You just never know what people will use so flatten.
Had the same in gymnasium, eventually got it overturned via bitching about it. Notes wouldnt even show up on their webapp : /
Haven’t used word in over 20 years and have no intention of ever using it again.
OpenOffice baby!
*libre office
Yes. I know, it’s more popular than open office but I’ve used open office for so long now I don’t want to switch.
Do you my guy but running an office suite that hasn’t been patched in 11 years is a major security risk. (This is assuming you aren’t exclusively creating and saving documents, but are also opening documents you recieve or download).
Actually now that you mention it I don’t think I downloaded an ODT documenting forever in a day I mean probably decades.
But you are right of course there is a security risk but fron what I understand it is being patched just not actively updated?
downloaded an ODT documenting
Doesn’t really matter what document format it is, I wouldn’t dare using OO anymore. Maybe they still patch critical CVEs, and maybe no one even attempts exploits because it’s basically just in maintenance mode, but you never know…
Change isn’t fun, but I don’t think that UI-wise Libreoffice is such a big leap?
It is not a leap at all. Was seamless for me.
btw libreoffice is just a continuation of openoffice development
OpenOffice 💀 Dude that thing doesn’t get a proper update since 2014, the most they do today is code style changes!
Indeed the libreoffice team wrote them a letter in 2020 about this: https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2020/10/12/open-letter-to-apache-openoffice/
Libreoffice is so nice. I also use onlyoffice on my phone, and have liked it so far.
Wasn’t .docx also supposed to be an open standard but M$ kept fucking with the implementation so it would only work in Office?
Yes, it technically is a standard, but because it’s an ISO standard you have to pay for I wouldn’t call it open. https://www.iso.org/standard/71691.html but people have different definitions of what an open standard is and I’m not trying to critique them.
So it’s an “open standard”, not in the sense that anybody can contribute to the development, but in the sense that the details of the standard are open and you can learn about them.
The format itself is an XML version of the existing Office document formats, and they grew organically over decades with random bugs, features, and bug compatibilities with other programs. e.g. There will be a random flag on an object that makes no sense but is necessary for interoperating with some Lotus 1-2-3 files that a company had, who then worked with Microsoft to support back it in the 90s. Things you can’t change, nobody really cares about, but get written down because the software already implements it (and will emit sometimes)
Isn’t it open? It works with Dropbox and macOS Numbers opens .docx and saves as .docx.
So does LibreOffice, but they’ve been called out multiple times for purposefully making the format overly complex to make it as hard as possible to reliable read and write to it.
I genuinely think they’re just incompetent lol
You should see the windows xp source code
You should see the windows xp source code
The rapidly dwindling sanity of windows programmers as expressed through code comments
Certified classic
I can smell this pic.*
*Not a compliment
Do you remember when radicals were trying to cancel RMS because of him merely defending some accused person.
The whole feud was very sad to unfold.
Ok, he is not perfect, but we need him, now more than ever. Even if only as a symbol.
No, I in fact don’t.
I recall people questioning his publicly stated beliefs on his website that he updates frequently of “what if the child consents tho?!” when defending someone accused of sexual assault.
Dutch pedophiles have formed a political party to campaign for legalization.
I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.
All link his personal website for her views and documented credited places for other statements/citations.
most of them accept pdfs so if thats the case for you just write the assignment in typst or latex and compile to pdf
This is the way.
Best thing I ever saw was an Italian cooking class that sent recipes as an ODT, and then 20 minutes later as a DOCX as an afterthought for the Americans.
Why not pdf?
Because the chef didn’t know how to do that? I dunno.
Nick Offerman after getting Jumanji’ed
It’s the right thing to complain about that kind of stuff and to do it officially.
Personally complain to the it crew and you get that look.
Me when the school system is Google Classroom
I would do my work in OpenOffice at home, save it to doc/docx, then when it is entirely completed, I will bring it to the library to load it in Word on a library computer and correct any formatting issues and resave it.
