The company is Access Industries and the Founder and Owner is Leonard Blavatnik
Along with what’s in the title, he is accused of reputation laundering against Ukraine and has been personally sanctioned by Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He was also part of a WhatsApp group involving some of the United States’ most powerful business leaders with the stated goals of “changing the narrative” in favour of Israel and “helping win the war” against Gaza.
Everything is in the linked Wikipedia article about him, mostly under the “Controversies and disputes” part.
I switched to Deezer after seeing it recommended as a better Spotify alternative here on Lemmy, but after finding all this I immediately stopped using it. It’s as bad as the shit Spotify does and has done IMO. I’m not here to recommend or push an alternative, but if I can give info on what I use now if someone asks.
it is vested interested that israel doesnt completely takeover gaza, because israel’s next target is IRAN, and russia heavily depends on IRAN.
You lost?
Qobuz is awesome and still 100% french. Also the platform which pays artists better then spotify
Thanks, I’ll prefer Bandcamp.
Now seriously: Does Qobuz have a equal catalog to Spotify and a bigger/more mainstream catalog than Bandcamp?
Yes, Qobuz is significantly more mainstream than BandCamp. I don’t know if the catalogue is on par with Spotify or AM or whatever, but most popular music is on it.
Bandcamp is like an indie zine that occasionally ships with a burned CD from a local band that has to live in the same rented house with no A/C and a half empty bottle of makers mark in the fridge.
Qobuz is a record store.
Good to know.
Didnt get that impression from Bandcamp but maybe that depends on the artists you listen so.
I’d say I get the impression way more with Soundcloud.
you guys need to understand that there are no goodguy rich folk
I use refreezer lol
Since we are on this topic I would incentivise everyone to take a look at resonate.
They are, AFAIK, the only music streaming service where artists, workers and listeners are owners (aka it’s a cooperative)
This is an interesting idea, but I would assume that over time, the number of “owned” streams would dominate the number of “new” streams, and thus eventually their operating costs would reach a point where they don’t have the revenue to cover it…
I guess it depends on how much new music is released, added to the library, and then streamed by the users. It’s a valid concern to be sure, but I wonder if it could be offset by user growth and new music to be a non issue
Even if we assume there’s an achievable rate of growth that can consistently outpace owned plays at any given time, as with every business, there will come a day when growth slows. And at that point, they’ll be forced to solve the problem.
And then there’s all the questions of, can I download my tracks to play offline? What if they go out of business? How many artists/labels are even going to agree to this? What about tracks I buy outside of their platform? And what does “own” actually mean given that you never “own” music you buy physical media for, you don’t have any copyright, you can’t play that media for profit, you just have a license to listen to that copy personally. By default the artist “owns” their art. But do they have to give that ownership up to the co-op?
It’s going to be tough to convince people who don’t care to switch away from spotify, and there’s no reason for someone who can self-host to use it unless it’s somehow more effective at funding musicians than just buying their tracks directly.
I wish them luck making the idea work, but I think they have their work cut out for them.
I think that’s all fair.
I was really interested in the idea of using it as a way of growing my offline and/or self hosted collection. Fair compensation for artists while still being able to have good new music discovery and grow my library at the same time would be really cool.
Still to be seen if they can manage, to your point, but I’ll hold out a little hope until they lose their goodwill
Yeah, i couldn’t find anywhere on their site that indicated I would be able to download tracks I own. That would change the equation I think. Then maybe they only charge for streaming and track download bandwidth. I could behind something like that. Then it feels like a better version of Bandcamp.
Currently I use Tidal to supplement my self-hosted library, but that’s primarily due to music selection and artist compensation. If they didn’t have random tracks I want to play, I would use something else.
At that point their governance structure would show it’s strengths by enabling a democratic decision taking that could solve the issue
Workers, for example, could suggest a small subscription fee that would cover the infrastructure cost, while listeners will most likely object, their view would be valued and impact the approval of any proposed solution
That’s fair, just…for this to scale, it needs to be competitive with existing streaming services. And if the experience for a listener is the same whether a democratic panel raises prices, or greedy enshittification raises prices, there’s not going to be an upside.
To me, the potential upside is identifying the problems with their revenue stream now out in the open, and addressing it now, rather than trying to build a captive audience now and pivot to something more sustainable later (as is the strategy for capitalist startups).
Its not even a flatrate
The pricing looks like its stacking quick if you do neither listen to the same songs over and over or entirely new ones, i dont know if I find the pricing fair for the consumer.
Yeah this is not a transparent pricing model. You start at $0.025 and “go up” from there but I can’t find how much. After you listen to a song 9 times and have paid $1.40 you “own” it but can still only listen to it on their service?
This sounds like iTunes with more steps.
I’m not sure where you get the information that it’s not DRM free
They explicitly say you can download songs while not mentioning the inclusion of any DRM
I’m curious where you found that
It’s still not possible, according to the FAQ: Q: Can I download music I own on Resonate? A: In the future, we intend to offer the ability to download tracks that you own on Resonate to your local device. This feature is not yet available.
So for now, it’s just streaming.
Oh wow, so you never own anything then
This is an interesting idea, but I find their catalogue to be quite terrible for me (so far). Service like this really, really needs big names and much broader catalogue to attract people and start moving. Even though I’m far far from listening to mainstream I literally could not find a single interpret I looked for, and believe me I tried.
Looks like new sign ups are paused right now, but it’s definitely something to keep an eye on.
I switched to Deezer because I found reasons why all of the others were unethical. What would you suggest for a streaming service whose services are ethical?
Pirate everything. Pay directly to artists only when they allow you to do so (like direct sales on their website). If they don’t allow you to make money go to them without also paying pigs then don’t pay them at all.
What options are there for pirating music? I felt Lidarr was not particularly useful due to the lack of indexers. Unless you like mainstream music it’s quite difficult to find many tracks online (and I’m too picky to be okay with YouTube rips).
Considering music streaming isn’t fragmented in the same way video streaming is, it’s still well worth paying for a music streaming service as part of a family plan imo. There’s no other hassle free solution to instantly listen to anything I want and be recommended new tracks based on my listening preferences.
I don’t think there’s any particularly “ethical” option, until now I’ve just used Spotify knowing that they’re losing money anyway. But it turns out they posted their first profitable year last year so who knows what the move is now. Qobuz claims to be ethical and high quality, but I don’t know how good the library is and like with any company they can become evil later.
Soulseek has practically everything, outside of the most niche stuff
i wish people would understand that copyright and the entire existing economic system built around art are all intended to oppress the little guy.
i think getting a grip on what you just said here is probably the first sort of real step in that direction for people.
can’t even count the number of times i’ve had someone respond to me with some variation of “oh so you don’t care about the artists’ WORK/LABOR/BALLS then, do you??” as some sort of accusation because i said something negative about copyright… when that’s not remotely the case - for me it’s based in a sentiment very similar to this ethos here regarding piracy. to me, the brain dead people rabidly defending a system where leeches can MitM artists and their clients are the ones who don’t care about artists or their work.
I would personally suggest Qobuz, as it is demonstrably the service that pays artists the most and has multiple tiers of lossless audio options. The next best thing would be to buy from artists directly, whenever possible (maybe even physical media, if you have a good sound system for that).
People here advocating for piracy sound cute, but I wonder how actual musicians would feel about that.
host it yourself.
There’s no ethical consumption under capitalism
Download MP3’s or FLAC’s
I’m autistic. If I’m not using some kind of a subscription service I will end up listening to the same one song on repeat literally thousands of times until I hate it. I would prefer to not hate songs I used to love. It’s happened too much. I need some kind of service to introduce new music into my rotation.
Download thousands of songs. Use a service like Lidarr to automatically download new releases or import entire genres using MusicBrainz collections
Tidal was originally European but DayZ bought it up so it’s technically American now; Qobuz is french but it doesn’t have a “brain-dead radio mode”. Both have unofficial Linux clients.
Rn I use tidal because it’s on the top 3 of the ones that pay the most to artists iirc(quobuz is up there too) and it hasn’t had a huge American influence that I know of, but do your own research on the alternatives to see which suits you the most, there are tons of articles about them all.
DayZ
Do you mean Jay-Z?
It’s now owned by Square, the same company behind squarecash
I used it for awhile, specifically because while Spotify promised lossless for years, they never delivered. A bonus is, as you said, that it is the platform that has the highest payout for artists.
That being said, when I stopped using it, it was mostly due the UX decisions they had made on the platform to force videos on everything. It’s a music app, and yet, one of the main navigation options in the app was for videos. Spotify also fired their original designer and has focused on “engagement” over actually good UX.
What’s brain-dead radio?
You click on a genre and let it play mindlessly, like when listening to radio.
It seems to have an endless radio mode. Am I missing something? https://community.qobuz.com/news-en/l2cyyji08ktj0w94hcfcjbbuyui2dw
I was referring to you having a “daily recommendations” playlist that just keeps going after it finished by appending similar music, or “radio based on playlist” kinda things. Also, Qobuz’s recommendations are way too generic, the lists are hand made for everyone which ironically doesn’t cater enough to individual tastes.
Compared to Spotify’s artist/song radio feature, Qobuz attempt at radio is absolutely horrible. They seem to sort everything into a literal handful of genres. The “similarity” seems to stem from song features like “has a singer” and “uses chords”. I switched from Spotify to Qobuz a few months ago, it’s comparable in available content, has much better audio quality but is severely underwhelming for discovering new music.
song features like “has a singer” and “uses chords”
You kids with your newfangled ideas!
Both have unofficial Linux clients.
Qobuz doesn’t?
Sticking with Spotify for now, it supports Linux and has last.fm integration (and is amazing)
https://github.com/mattipunkt/qobuz-linux This is the unofficial client and it’s pretty good
unofficial
You appear to be looking at their official website. Services tend to not advertise unofficial clients
yeah shame
https://www.spotify.com/au/download/linux/
not first class support but close enough i can’t tell the difference
this is where mullvad and spotify are tops to me, no one comes close
uh, same. https://github.com/Mastermindzh/tidal-hifi
In fact spotify doesn’t support arch at all, all there is is user built stuff too. You have a flatpak version of spotify but sod o you of tidal-hifi.
Sorry if I sound rude but your jerking of spotify when it offers the same capabilities of user made stuff rubs me the wrong way.
I’ve been just pondering between tidal and spotify, and I primarily use Linux and Android. Tidal’s client doesn’t seem to support outputting to devices like Wiim in Linux. The Spotify client does.
Spotify’s client can be installed via AUR (a repackaging of that DEB essentially) on Arch Linux.
FWIW, both tidal-hifi and the official spotify client are available in NixOS’s repository.
Yeah I know of the AUR package, in fact I checked right before writing xD, that’s the “user built stuff” I mentioned, since the AUR is the Arch User Repository after all.
About the Wiim, I’m reading about it for the first time but it seems like it’s a LAN based audio device, right? I bet there’s some Linux application that is able to connect to it and create a virtual output device you can pick for the tidal app, or any other audio.
Me from the future before posting the comment: Yeah no, I checked, there isn’t. That’s weird because Wiim does have an open API to send an audio stream into it so you should be able to create an audio stream from any app and then link them… Like, an app that creates a local audio streaming server, links any app output into that server and then sends it to Wiim via its public API. It should be doable and offer a lot more flexibility, but I guess there’s not enough interest for someone to bother doing so. The one doing it should have a WIIM device to test too and the overlap between the people able to do this stuff and the people with a WIIM might not be that big give that’s a device that does a lot of stuff for you in theory.
I bet there’s some Linux application that is able to connect to it and create a virtual output device you can pick for the tidal app, or any other audio.
Yeah I should’ve been more clear what I’m looking for. Obviously I can stream via Bluetooth or perhaps even something like Airplay. But the native Spotify client uses Spotify Connect also on Linux, which means that the device can independently play the music. I just issue it commands from the client.
A similar thing exists for Tidal: Tidal Connect. But unfortunately the Linux client does not support it. Android, MacOS and iOS do, though.
suck deezer nuts
So deezer is owned by a geezer.
I’ve been buying mostly mostly from Bandcamp. It’s worked out well. I have a big library, and the people making music got paid.
FYI bandcamp was acquired by Epic and subsequently sold to Songtrader 2023
Really it was re-sold I actually didn’t know that.
I don’t know much about Songtradr, all I can find is that they let half the bandcamp staff go when they took over, is it a well known company?
Its an Australian company founded by this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wiltshire and this guy https://www.songtradr.com/helge
Songtradr is a fairly boring ecommerce platform for music from what I can read. Boring is good though, I don’t see any dramas / issues in my brief web traipsing.
Dammit, I was pretty happy with it :(
Yeah, me too. I left Spotify because they support right wing dumbfucks. Then went to Deezer because “Buy Form EU”. And now this shit … Why can’t we have nice, morally okayish things?
I am buying music as much as I can, and build my own streaming service with Jellyfin. To this day, Bandcamp is were you can find the most music for purchase but not all artists are there. Often, I don’t find any place to purchase albums from artists, then I pirate as a last resort, sorry for that. I’ll go to the concerts when I get the chance, to make up for it.
Surprised nobody mentioned 7digital, a store to buy music in mp3 or FLAC format. They have both mainstream and niche stuff
7digital is owned by the same people as Bandcamp BTW. Not that it changes your point, just interesting.
If you want to support local business, you could dig through some crates at a record store. Most shops have metric shitloads of CDs on the cheap. Idk if lossless audio is a big deal to you but that’s a surefire way to get lossless files too
I appreciate lossless quality, although I don’t have any fancy audio equipment at this time. When I move to a bigger place, maybe I’ll start to build a CD collection. I’m not so much into Vinyls, somehow they are so popular right now that artists will release a vinyl disk buy no download nor CD purchase possible…
I’ve been on Tidal for some time but noticed that Qobuz has released a connect service that seems to work like Sp*tify Connect so that you can remote control one instance from another. Like, playing music on computer connected to amp can be controlled through the phone.
I’d appreciate if somebody using Qobuz could confirm?
I’m using Qobuz, can confirm, it’s just like Spotify. I use a Raspberry Pi with Qobuz.com open and using my phone as a remote.
Can you start a session where your friends can add music to the queue and control it?
It has shared/collaborative playlists, but I’m not sure about a session queue.
Thanks! Do you know if it possible to run Qobuz headless or in a docker container or some of the sort? I did some searching but couldn’t find anything.
I’m quickly running out of options… Apple Music was honestly really decent, then the US did their thing so I looked for non-US options. One of my requirements is lossless quality, so Spotify is out (regardless of their own ethical issues). Tidal is also out as it has been a US-owned service for a long time. The remaining options are Deezer and Qobuz. Qobuz seems good in terms of ownership and whatnot, but their catalogue is missing things I listen to quite often, or at least it did when I last checked it out a few months ago. I think I’m staying with Deezer for now. It’s not ideal as Access Industries own 41.4% of Deezer whose owner this post is all about, but it’s the least bad of all the options I’ve found. They also don’t have every song I’m interested in, but they’re pretty close.
Doesn’t that make it 41.4% US-owned? I don’t see how your criteria make Deezer better than Apple Music. Plus Access is the same company that owns Warner Music Group, and I’m fairly sure it’s only 41.4% because they later went public in 2022; the 2016 acquisition decision says the percent of Deezer owned by Access is confidential but says Access would have exclusive control. Which also brings the question of where the 41.4% figure is from.
Do you really want to support something that expressly funds the policies and aspects of the US that you hate or something that’s simply based in the US and helped fund just Trump’s inauguration event instead of any policies?
True, which is why I don’t think Deezer is a perfect choice for me either, but at the surface level 41.4% US-owned is better than closer to 100% which all the other services are that meets my requirements. Personally I found that number on the Deezer Wikipedia page, but it is marked with “citation needed”, so it could be completely wrong. And that probably is the case if it’s true that Access bought exclusive control.
“The US that you hate” doesn’t exist. I disagree with a lot of decisions and policies and want better for the American people and the rest of the world that is both directly and indirectly affected, but there’s no hate. But you do make an important point that I hadn’t thought deeply enough about and I agree with you. I believe it’s better to support something that’s simply based in the US rather than the specific policies I disagree with even if it’s more money.
Qobuz would be my choice as it would avoid this dilemma, but their catalogue wasn’t good enough for me the last time I tried it. I’ll have to try again to see if it has gotten better since then. But I have changed my mind and will cancel my Deezer subscription regardless and try to find an alternative. Or maybe I’ll just drop streaming services completely for now as most of my active listening is done with my own local collection anyways and I could always set up a Jellyfin instance if needed.
i’m facing the same dilemma. i just recently left spotify. tidal and qobuz don’t have nearly enough of my favorite music, so i went with deezer. i really don’t want to give apple any more money, but i’m wondering which would be better…
I can recommend Qobuz. I’ve tried a bunch of them and it’s the one I stuck with. Actual high quality audio without ridiculous extra fees, lots of information including CD booklets and complete credits on each track, and they pay the artists a bit more than most streaming services do. I haven’t hit any notable gaps in their catalogue compared to others (though some artists just don’t stream), and they have things Spotify doesn’t have. Qobuz is also better for classical music than others, because they understand how to properly group and credit the tracks.
Thanks for the recommendation. Qobuz has lots if things I would appreciate, but the last time I tried it it was missing a lot of the music I regularly listen to. It has only been a few months since then, but I will give it another try to see if it has changed.
There’s barely any ethical options anymore…
Piracy!
The two sides of Lemmy, Just a few posts over users were raging that Spotify only pays out billions of dollars to artists, now you’re suggesting you just take their work and don’t pay for it at all
At this point in end stage capitalism, yes.
what is end stage capitalism? is this a euphemism for you can’t afford spotify?
Can’t afford any freakin thing, really.
I want to go see a live show to encourage an artist directly? It costs an arm and a leg in fees because one company owns all the show ticket offices in all the venues.
damn! hope you are able to get a good job soon and make loads of money so you can afford things
Spotify is really one of the best things ever invented for me :)
Or how about we break up the monopoly for the event tickets business and make the outrageous dynamic pricing tactic illegal so we can finally afford to go see live events at decent prices.
If I were a musician it’d be hard to be mad at someone who pirated my music but still came to shows, and importantly bought merch
Which is to say, dear reader, that if you pirate go buy a t-shirt or something. You need t-shirts anyway.
they didn’t say go to shows and buy merch, just piracy
They didn’t, but I am.
