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So… It’s better to live in the matrix, gotcha.
For some people it is. Hell, there’s even a character in the actual movie who thinks so.
Yeah, and he doesn’t mind killing other people for that
Which shows he would have been better off living in the Matrix considering how badly he reacted to leaving it.
These comments sure are something, eh?
I met my first girlfriend in mandatory religious ed when we were early teens and I still haven’t unpacked if I “broke” her like in the comic above or if I did her right by confiding my thoughts. She was already a bit of a Zappa’s Catholic Girl so I don’t know what path in life she would have went on otherwise.
Would be much darker.P.S. In the first panel neckbeard looks like a pirate with a wooden leg and prosthetic hand.
So many militant atheists. Saying so much, all just to prove the comic right.
I almost feel like he wasn’t actually trying to persuade her but instead he is so insufferable that clearly God couldn’t exist because that would make him horrifically cruel.
What’s her replacement meaning vocabulary? Was that part of the talk? Was she an animist or a christian?
Oh boy, I sure love the ol’ “atheists are filthy neckbeards” canard. Haven’t heard that one before.
Don’t forget the “not believing in god = sadness” one. Realizing it is fake actually brought relief for the ex-religious people that I know (anecdotal, I know. I don’t have the actual numbers).
Exactly. Use your own brain, not rely on a sky daddy who literally gave you instructions on how to own slaves.
Thats a little unfair. Most religous people have been religious for most of their lives and it makes up a large part of it. Being convinced their whole philosophy is wrong would crush some people
Nobody said reality was all smiles and rainbows. However, it’s entirely possible to find happiness without believing in fairy tales so you can sleep at night.
And her son completely failed to demonstrate any of that. She presumably spent her life trying to take care of her kid, (the quality of which can only be guessed at, but she cared enough to listwn to his points about atheism) and as soon as her child shows her a new way of thinking he completely abandons her without giving her any ways of handling it.
Whew. Must have been hard work carrying all those assumptions in.
Name three.
There are two big ones, both of which imply other assumptions like she didn’t argue or tell him he was going to hell or a ton of other negative stuff that religious people tend to toss out when someone anknowledges atheism in their presence.
She presumably spent her life trying to take care of her kid
she cared enough to listwn to his points about atheism
People are far more receptive to listening to someone they trust over someone they don’t. It therefore follows that the mom was far more likely to have trusted/respected her son enough to hear what he had to say than the opposite. It’s all the same assumption.
But sure, let’s go with the alternative; she’s a complete asshole who used religion as her crutch to do horrible things to her son all her life, and her son finally talked her into realising that she is the monster who has been causing issues this whole time. This is its own assumption too; we don’t know what their relationship was like.
Her son, after showing her how horrible she has been her whole life, runs off to celebrate this victory with his friends, and leaves her to cry on the floor, alone.
He cared more about being right than anything else, including helping her through this discovery or damn, even just calling someone she trusts to talk her through it.
So the point of the comic stands regardless of this assumption. The son abandoned his mother after turning her worldview over completely. The consequence of that was his mother lying on the floor, devastated. (Whether she deserved it or not)
Does anyone really deserve that? Did you enjoy having to figure out what to do with yourself when you realised that it’s entirely likely that nothing outside of this single life exists, all on your own? Would you have appreciated a friend or family member walking you through the way to handle that?
A little bit of empathy goes a long way.
Or they just talked it over calmy and respectfully and she didn’t break down crying until well after he left and the reality of all of the time she wasted not being herself because of being told her natural attraction to women was a sin hit home. The son is happy when telling his friends because his mom can be herself!
Or he could be an evil, heartless athiest like you apparently want him to be.
I mean, I guess that’s one interpretation. If you go with those assumptions, the takeaway is that, what, changing changing your views can be devastating? Where’s the value in that? ‘Big worldview changes can be stressful’ is not at all a valuable takeaway from this.
My point really has nothing to do with his atheism. Obviously he cares too; he wouldn’t bother talking with her if he didn’t care. My point is that there are better ways to care, and it’s worth keeping them in mind whenever this sort of situation comes up.
I’d be happy knowing our family wasn’t financially enabling organizations that hide and protect rapists and pedophiles.
YMMV.
I mean, the celebration was not unwarranted. It’s just that he left quickly enough that all the emotional breakdown happened to her while she was all alone, instead of with him there to support her.
It’s possible but unfortunately when people have spent their entire lives with religion being their (seemingly) only source of happiness, it can be really hard for them to find a different source.
And also I don’t see how life looks better while believing in a greater power. Starting with people going to war and desolation all the time in the name of their god…
Im an atheist and I listen to The Lord of the Rings audiobook so I can sleep at night. Reality is fucking awful and I like my fairy tales.
Yes! Exactly this! So many atheists love fantasy and sci-fi. Why not? It is wonderful to have some magic in the world. We just know the stuff is made-up.
If those who share such things with us, demand crazy shit from us, we call that out for being toxic fandom or corporate enshittification and go away, if we please. In religions, that is just another day.
Soo what is the message here? Atheists are incel neckbeard basement dwellers and god is as real as one of their mother?
The message is it’s fucking funny to think about this situation.
Your typing here says you’re still tired.
It’s about atheists who make atheism their whole personality.
In other words, “anti-theists” instead of just atheists.
Most people whose personalities revolves around being anti-something are insufferable. It’s far better to be for something than against something.
Like, I grew up Mormon, and left when I grew old enough to think for myself. Among my friends who also left the church, there are two major categories: the “post-mormons” and the “anti-mormons”. The anti-mormons are miserable to be around while the rest of us decided we’d rather build our lives around what we love, not what we hate.
This 100%, craft beer drinkers can be just as insufferable when they get someone to “enjoy” a sour for the first time
Probably a better description/label tbh
If anything then, the post is depicting antitheists, not just atheists
Faces of Atheism was considered pretty cringe, and for the most part it was (as would have any “faces of x” group been on Reddit), but the idea behind it wasn’t made in isolation.
That no matter how righteous you believe you are, there are ramifications to your actions with religion. It’s very easy to understand and be comfortable with those beliefs, but with others you are quite literally messing with their identities who they are.
My family is deeply religious. I personally don’t care if they believe in God or not. I focus on individual teachings, that gay people aren’t evil, that they can be religious and believe contradictory things to what others believe, that it’s all deeply personal
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A good addition, I agree. I know my mother draws her strength from the church. Without it I’m sure she would be depressed at home. It would require someone showing her how to be self reliant and grabbing satisfaction from that to get her going again
Soo what is the message here?
That proselytizing about atheism without considering the needs and character of your audience can be just as bad as religion doing the same.
Love is more important than being right, and the son in the comic very clearly didn’t show any. As soon as he proved his point, he left to go celebrate with his friends rather than spend time with his mother. He failed to show her that just because there is no big sky god doesn’t mean that is no love.
Not shown is the mother hatefully oppressing others due to her religion.
Religion can be both helpful to those that follow it while also causing those same people to do or support horrific things in its name.
Not shown is the mother hatefully oppressing others due to her religion.
Yes. Exactly. “Not shown”. That’s not part of this comic. You’ve brought it in all on your own. You’ve missed the point of the comic if that’s what you’re focused on. Everybody here knows that religion can harm people. That’s not the point of this comic. The point is that the way the son character went about his goals was exactly as destructive as the way that religion does. It was a warning to ensure that your discussion include love for the people behind the discussion, and not just hate for them for being wrong.
It was a warning to ensure that your discussion include love for the people behind the discussion, and not just hate for them for being wrong.
I think I’ve gone over twenty years with this being the exact thing that bothers me and have never been able to articulate it as well as you just did in one sentence.
DEAR LORD PEOPLE, SOMETIMES THERE IS NOT A DEEPER MESSAGE AND IT’S JUST A DUMB JOKE!
Seriously, check out the other comics by this artist. They just like absurdist humor, like this one:
Don’t be anti-intellectual about this silly comic. People can apply intellectual analysis to stupid things if they want to, and they damn-well may find deeper meaning sometimes.
Let people have their hobbies.
Sure, but that also means that I get to make my own contribution to the discussion. 😀
People seem to forget that and think they own the limit in what is related conversation. I could talk about how I knew a group of people that looked exactly like these neckbeards and talk about their hygeine. Somehow acceptable but other works from the artist and a mention of their use of absurdist tone?
It feels it’s not about conversation here often, but an actual competition to be the most analytical and factual.
I’d rather comments be part of the open conversation.I mean, you get to make your own contribution because we’re on an open platform, not for any other reason. quite often intellectual spaces shut down and deplatform anti-intellectual rhetoric and thought-terminating cliches such as what you’ve stated. It serves no one discussing the intricacies of any work to have someone yelling “The curtains were fucking blue!”, and this comment section literally exists to discuss the above comic and its various aspects.
Example intellectual comments being posted here:
I didn’t realize neckbeard atheists oppressed so many people compared to religion, thanks to the author for opening my eyes
So many militant atheists. Saying so much, all just to prove the comic right.
Having said that, my specific objection is not to all of the discussion taking place here, but to the fact that a lot of the comments seem to be projecting their own personal viewpoints onto the comic.
Also, I was not shouting people down; I was speaking in all caps to be funny. It’s fine if you personally did not think I funny, but that was the intent (which in retrospect could probably have been conveyed more clearly if I had also dropped the comma so that it was purely a stream of words), just like it was the intent of the comic author to make a dumb joke rather than to state a strong opinion about atheists. I think that it is useful to separate the intent of what an author was trying to accomplish from your own thoughts on the subject.
That’s somewhat my bad for taking the adversarial tone of your original comment to being serious and about all comments looking into the comic’s unsaid meanings.
At the same time, though, the comic is 100% meant to make fun of militant atheists, as in atheists who make their whole personality atheism. The folks who’s sole goal seemingly is to make everyone stop being religious. And the punchline is that despite achieving his goal, he only managed to make his mother’s life worse by forcing her through an epiphany she wasn’t ready for and then abandoning her with her own thoughts. The comic is partially funny because of it making fun of militant atheists. The other portion of the humor is the absurd nature of the situation.
The first comment you show takes that joke personally and the second resonates with that message. Neither of these are really off the mark, as grating as their tones may be to some.
I agree completely that the comic is parodying a particular cliche of a militant atheist. I disagree that the intent was to provide serious social commentary.
And I did not find either of those comments grating; I was merely citing them as evidence that not all of the discussion here is “intellectual”. Honestly, the real avenue of criticism that was left open to you that I was expecting you to take was to point out, correctly, that they were heavily cherry-picked for their unreasonableness; it actually surprises me a bit that instead you called them not “really off the mark” as if they were inherently reasonable responses.
Sure, that’s what satire is. A parody of something to criticise it. Often using clichés to ensure the subject is immediately identifiable.
This comic is a satire of militant atheists, because the author finds that militant atheists are insufferable and deserve to be made fun of, as the comic is doing. Why else would the author choose them specifically to satirize?
You chose those two comments to point at examples of unintellectual discussion. I am pointing out that they are not as unintellectual as you paint them to be. I don’t strongly agree with what they are saying, but that does not immediately disqualify them from contributing from the conversation. Your comment was the only one calling for the termination of the pursuit of deeper meaning in the comic, which is an anti-intellectual stance.
So you’re saying you should just let people believe and leave them be?
Dad’s reaction is exactly what I’d do.
this guys stuff is great. heres a bit more
Throwing a stone is a dick move. Now he’s imperfect Pete!
Dick move… But not a sin! Still perfect pete!
You really made a difference right there, bud!
Some people just can’t handle being released from Plato’s cave.
The first experience for many is crushing despair. It can take time to get out of that slump and learn to find meaning in a meaningless world.
The world has plenty of meaning that doesn’t involve any kind of faith or religion.
Not objective meaning, though, it’s all subjective. But nothing wrong with subjective meaning!
Faith doesn’t have any objective meaning either.
But they already grew up with it. Finding a different subjective meaning to replace an existing one is what’s hard.
To be honest, I don’t think a lot of people are ready. It’s a hard thing to deconstruct your faith and if you’re not careful it can take you to some really dark places. For a lot of people it’s the way they find meaning and solace in a world of pain. Ultimately if you can find that comfort without tying it to religion that’s better but not everyone can. That’s my take on it post-deconversion
Also, it really just depends on your age. Have you believed for decades? Not believing at some point in your life will be some kind of earth shaking change.
It’s more of a generational issue, really. Convincing someone who was already indoctrinated as a baby and began to “pray” as early as their arm coordination allowed it is almost cruel, really. At that point it’s reality-shattering. Let alone if your religion included any kind of body-modification, especially without anesthesia (that shit burns itself into the very fabric of your brain as a baby). In that case it’s even worse, as it’d entail the realisation that your body has been violated (some may use stronger wording).
At the end of the day what counts is that you’re a decent person, no matter your stance on religion or spirituality.
I mean the boomers were the hippie generation so really its only the silent generation that really as a matter of course had that indoctrination and the youngest of them is in their eighties. For those below eighty its about being raised in a culture that can keep you insulated enough to not watch media or meet many people not like yourself.
I try not to be too judgemental of people who are religious. We are not evolved enough as a species to be able to comprehend the unknown or unknowable, and everyone to some degree has to cope with this somehow, even if we aren’t consciously aware of it. Faith is an easy, convenient and catch-all solution to all of life’s unexplained phenomena, so it makes sense that people tend to gravitate towards it naturally, all it takes is a little push during childhood.
I take issue with it when religious folk try to force their views onto other people. Proselytizing is one thing, but converting people by duress or force, or by weaponizing the government apparatus to conform to their views and their views only, is where I stop caring about the feelings of those religious cults and do everything in my power to stop them or undermine their efforts.
Sure, but the sooner they start, the better off they’ll be.
Not to offend you but tbh I hate this thought process and imo this smells of superiority complex “peasants are just not ready for reality yet”. The peasants are actually really smart and humans are very good at adapting and changing their world model given appropriate motivation.
The world is absolutely ready to rid itself of religion.
Yeah, going from finding fulfillment through religion to finding it through other means isn’t something you can do instantly.
