fuck no we aren’t.
anyone who says otherwise can fight me.
And I’m pissed that you got to this comment first!
Yeah fuck that person
They both seem like assholes to me 🤷♂️
Pot and the kettle much?
You know what they say, if you find that you’re always surrounded by assholes… you’re probably the asshole…Both sides are the same. Fight me on it
Theres so much pedophilia, wanton violence, racism, misogyny, homophobia, ableism, transphobia… fuck all these people. May they never find peace or happiness. We owe no one politeness.
IMO online commenters are increasingly showing pathological binary thinking - the attitude that there are exactly two sides to every issue - the Right one and the Wrong one. Questioning ANY aspect of the Right one means you’re obviously a hardcore supporter of EVERY aspect of the Wrong one. You’re either morally and ethically pure or your character is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. To me it’s a really paradoxical way of thinking about diversity and acceptance - more like we’re supposed to either wholeheartedly embrace people or despise them.
This is usually how people treat fascists. Not sure what’s surprising about it
deleted by creator
It’s not new, it happened a lot on Reddit, and I get a bit of that in real life too.
People are tribalist, and that sucks.
For example, if you read Lemmy comments without any real world experience, you’d think everyone who voted for Trump hates brown people and wants poor people to die. But I have family and close friends who voted for that douchebag, and they are good people, they just thought he’s a better option (and they generally don’t follow politics too much). And I don’t blame them, Harris had a crappy campaign, basically promising the same bad policies Biden had, and Clinton before her was worse. Why should they be interested in politics if we keep getting poor options?
People aren’t black and white. Yet we caricaturize them as such.
Yeah. I see a surprising amount of it on Lemmy. It is behavior I’m used to seeing from the far right, Qanon, and other brainwashed vectors. I watched the Russians propagandize the right on Reddit.
These, however, are nominal leftists engaging in stark black and white thinking. I’m not sure if they’re state level shills, bots, really believe it and are brainwashed tankies, or true believers living in China or similar. Maybe it’s dumb kids being taken in by propaganda.
I think it’s more dumb kids than anything.
I try to correct it where I can because hopefully a handful will reconsider their stance and grow as a person, but they certainly won’t admit to it.
I agree - the tone of so many posts is very similar to 13-year-olds calling mom a bitch for making them go to the dentist.
Calling the binary thinkers leftists or shills of some other thing is just another form of simplistic binary thinking - put a black hat on them and boom, you’re done. I think this is a lot of people’s way of dealing with the constant firehose of information we think we have to process because it’s in our endless feeds. We have an always full inbox, and some of us deal with that by processing each item as fast as possible, using minimal thought to tell ourselves we’ve got it figured out so we can swipe on it and scroll on to the next issue. This is leading to a pattern of superficial snap judgements, stereotyping, and ultimately various forms of social bigotry.
The point I’m driving at is that they are spouting leftist talking points but have cranked up the fervor to 11. It’s frothing at the mouth type behavior and it genuinely confuses me as to if that is a real viewpoint or a shill. I’m not making a binary snap judgment, I’m questioning if that’s even a real person and what happened to them if they are real.
Oh sorry, you said “nominal” leftists and I misinterpreted.
yes and i don’t think it’s limited to politics either.
Age group…
I have. I honestly try not to be. There’s just so many uncaring shits online. It makes me sick to think of how fucked up these trolls are to relish causing others distress. Then I become a dick
I’m trying to be better
I feel like I’m fighting a one-person crusade every time I respond politely to some jerk online. Last night I couldn’t sleep because some rando on the internet said mean things. Why are humans like this? Why can’t we just be nice? Sometimes I feel like we deserve to go extinct.
Because everyone wants to be popular. Most people don’t have the tools to be popular through kindness so they simply act like the other orcs instead.
There’s just so many uncaring shits online.
I wonder how much “hate” on the internet is this… but the reality is that is how you “see” them in your head rather than what they’re actually saying/believe. A lot of negative responses to some of the things I say is a strawman of what I actually believe/said.
Someone hacked a roomba last year to yell the N word at people on a mic.
The WORLD has become more hateful, it is not simply perception.
Okay? I never said “ALL HATE on the internet is bullshit”… I said “I wonder how much is just people constructing shit in their own head.”
This is exactly my point. You chose to interpret my words in a way that I clearly would have never intended if you actually spent time to read the words and understand them for what they were rather than some magical interpretation that clearly was never said.
Edit: Thanks for the downvote too! Proves the point further.
Edit2: And on your specific point I would argue otherwise. In the past, humans would just kill each other rather than yelling words through a machine. Literal murder -> Mean words is a de-escalation. We can do better for sure… do not misconstrue that, but to claim that we’re more hateful now, when history shows us murdering each other for less is a bit silly of a stance to take.
I think you’re actually doing here what you are accusing me of re: misinterpretting. My last comment was mild af.
The world has become more hateful. It’s not just online or in people’s heads. We have evidence that massive online warfare happens, literal psychological warfare and soldiers paid to post hate online all day every day. One independent journalist estimated at least a trillion dollars spent for various election/political meddling in 2024 and 2025, with protests in Romania, Georgia, Serbia, Slovakia, South Korea, Germany, Poland, etc etc etc.
So yeah, you got a downvote, grow up about it. You’re wrong and didn’t contribute anything meaningful to the conversation. This isn’t even “hate,” this is simple disagreement that you are too thin-skinned to handle.
Hate is stuff like: ableism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia. Eg a roomba yelling the N word at people. It is not disagreeing with you and downvoting you, lol. For fucks sake.
Edit for your E2: The massive online armies are using online hate to conduct genocides and kill people more efficiently. With massive networks of countries with camps and slavery including Assad’s knowledge of death camps.
You’re wrong and didn’t contribute anything meaningful to the conversation.
So you think that out of all the hate on the internet… NONE of it is constructed shit in people’s own head?(keep in the mind that the article itself talks about personality disorders and DSM-5, literally talking about things like schizophrenia and ADHD… mental disorders that affect how we think are in that book). That this number is so infallibly 0% that my thought doesn’t contribute ANY meaningful value to discuss at all? You sure that it contributed nothing to the conversation and that’s why you downvoted? Cause it would appear to me that you’ve just chosen to ignore the words, ascribe your own meaning to stuff that wasn’t there and then downvoted because you didn’t like it.
It’s clear that this is happening on the internet in many cases. In saner parts of the internet (sometimes even here on lemmy) you’ll see two people arguing, a misconception clear up, and magically all the “hate” dissolved away and both parties walk away amicably.
Hate is stuff like: ableism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hate
It only means that as an adjective, or under pretense where it’s clear that we’re talking about a class of people, if that’s the case it wasn’t clear to me and I just took it as a general overall “the world seems more hateful”. Which it wasn’t used any other way in the comments up to this point this way nor the article itself. So now you’ve constructed some other thing that nobody has referenced just so you can argue some other point that nobody else was apparently making. Keep in mind that the whole thread started with “Hostile” from the article, and not “hate”. The article doesn’t reference anything about any specific classes of people, and even talks about personality disorders (so medical perspective) rather than " ableism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia" and other… uh… character flaws(? might not be the correct phrase to use but maybe the point comes across) that shitty people have.
Edit: Oh and I don’t care about downvotes. But the fact that YOU downvoted the comment was part of the point. It literally is adding context to the actual discussion we’re actively having. It’s directly related behavioral response that’s worthy of discussing in this particular discussion. Trust me I get down-voted plenty on Lemmy and couldn’t care less otherwise. Usually for not immediately jumping on a bandwagon.
I went to high school in the south, I’m not white.
The hate is not something you can process, the worst we see online, the Andrew tates, the people calling for all brown people to be deported to El Salvador, that’s Disney compared to them.
Becauae it was all they had, and the hate infused them down to the cells, such that it was all they had keeping them going.
Trump took the lid off, let them feel more comfortable talking in public.
But these are people who casually discuss how the only way to heal the world is to exterminate all the Muslims and jews, how we should nuke China now because we can, and how atheists and anybody more left than Trump needs to be castrated now for the good of America.
To people shocked at the toxicity, I think you grew up in far more sheltered places.
Dude I grew up dirt poor on govt cheese in the 70s and 8os. Homeless at times, hunted and fished more for food than bought it
Sheltered? Nah.
Saddened… Dismayed? Yes
Maybe sheltered isn’t the right word.
You grew up in a nurturing home.
Everyone didn’t have that luxury, and many grew up to be assholes.
I watched my father try to kill my mother and was on the streets at 16. Nice try
I don’t say that in a mean way. I will not pretend to know your story. I can’t. Especially those who are poc( I don’t know yours and am not trying to be personal so I’m not asking )
What I’m saying is I can’t understand a poc’s full experience. I’ll never have to tell my kid to watch out for cops because of his skin color.
I can, however, understand how others sink into the anger despair and rage. I know what it’s like to wake in a jail cell, I know what hardship really is.
I also know that it is never overcome through cruelty. In fact that puts everyone, including the perpetrator, in a worse place.
So again. We don’t have to be this shitty to each other.
Is that why you’re such a scum? Daddy issues?
Yeah see, I don’t buy that. I can say things in a less than PC way, but it takes tow to argue. If I don’t make an effort to be understood, I can’t be pissed when I’m not
And since I can’t force others do that, I can only do what I can
We are all responsible for what we say , good and bad
But thank you for sharing, sincerely
but it takes tow to argue
Eh… It really doesn’t though does it? One side can be sincerely stating points of fact/logic and others often can and do often ascribe that as “you’re a terrible person for saying that!”.
We are all responsible for what we say , good and bad
Good and bad are subjective though. There is often no black and white. I often cite and source things to show that I’m not stating anything as a matter of opinion… and out of the blue some rando comes out and tries ascribing some sense of moral straw-man claiming that I must believe something or another. Here’s an example from literally last night…
I made no statement that could even be construed as putting words in other people’s mouths… yet someone straw-manned me by definition (and didn’t even know the word for it) by Smee there trying to make some grand point that nobody was even making at that point but they thought I was.
Edit: Actually you don’t even need to look at an entirely different thread… Just look at the other response to me. Someone who wasn’t even in the conversation comes out of the blue and ascribes something I never said nor could ever have been construed as and took it to some straw-man end game nonsense.
Let me show you why it takes two…
Have a good evening
Jonathan Haidt recently wrote in The Atlantic:
Ok but fr tho fuck Jonathan Haidt.
Haidt was JAQing off about trans people in the exact way that the Onion called out and satirized hours after their article was published. He’s a “centrist” who seems to exclusively punch left, and he’s just whining about getting called out with legitimate criticism.
He also got deez nuts’d iirc lol.
Agreed, haidt is a hack
Jesus christ, it’s like you read the headline and desperately wanted to provide supporting evidence.
Next time? Just for like 1 second?
Imagine that other people don’t give a shit about you blasting your toxicity at the world. Maybe the world would actually be a better place if assholes like you shut up some times.
BTW, this has absolutely nothing to do with trans rights, this is just you personally acting like every other .ml out there.
Jesus christ, it’s like you read the headline and desperately wanted to provide supporting evidence.
Well, yes. First off because it’s funny. Several other people in the thread thought so and made the same joke.
But also, yes, because I despise civility fetishism, and I also despise Haidt for being a transphobic shitlib. And obviously, the two are connected, the reason Haidt is whining about civility is that he got bullied on Twitter for his transphobia and he wants to be able to shit on trans people without suffering any kind of social reprecussions.
It’s funny how you baselessly assert “this has absolutely nothing to do with trans rights” as if just saying it somehow makes it true, like some kind of magic spell. I wonder, would you say the same thing if it was a more prominent transphobe like JK Rowling calling out hostility in internet discourse? What if it was someone like, say, Charlie Kirk, or even Richard Spencer? Are you a true civility fetishist who takes issue with bullying bigots, or is it that you’re only ok with bigotry when it’s directed towards trans people? Idk, seems worth investigating.
But, you know, maybe civility fetishism isn’t so bad. Maybe it’s me who’s wrong, I’m just a crazy radical, and I need to be more like MLK.
First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
Huh, kinda seems like he saw tension disrupting the peace as being necessary towards pushing towards justice in equality in an unjust status quo. But maybe MLK is too radical too. You know who I need to be more like? Jesus. That’s right, I’m turning over a new leaf and I’ve decided to be more Christlike.
Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household.
Huh. Kinda seems like even Jesus agreed that social change necessarily involved creating conflict, or bringing conflicts to the forefront, in order to address injustice.
But ok, let’s ignore them (maybe the world would just be a better place if assholes like them would shut up some times and stop blasting their toxicity all over the world) and look at the actual, present day reality. When exactly was internet discourse supposedly more civil? Let’s compare to, say, 10 years ago, 2015. Before #MeToo so you don’t have to worry about women calling people out for sexual assault and causing division, but it’s also in the middle of Gamergate, so you know, really not a great time to be a woman on the internet, but I guess if you were a cishet white man, things were pretty peaceful and harmonious. You also didn’t have a bunch of people calling out the bombs going to the Middle East, of course, we were still bombing civilians en masse, but I guess if you were a cishet white man, things were pretty peaceful and harmonious.
You know when discourse was really at it’s peak? The 1950’s. Before all these radicals started calling for civil rights or spreading division against things like bombing Vietnam or Korea, just an all around wonderful time, a Leave it to Beaver paradise, you know, just so long as you’re a cishet white man.
At some point, obviously, you have to draw the line. And I’ve simply drawn it a little bit further than you have.
This, this is what neurodivergence looks like.
This is what happens when your country skimps on mental health care.
But I guess that’s the same joke.
This guy is just sad.
I’m sorry your comment was censored.
Hopefully we can get better communities someday that allow users to choose for themselves what they get to see.
When you can’t refute any of the other person’s points, just call them crazy 🙄
Seems like you’re contributing to hostile online discourse with all these insults you keep hurling at me. I’m just trying to have a conversation.
Not calling you crazy.
I’m calling you someone with serious emotional issues.
Absent your attempts to make it insulting and pathological, that’s called passionately opposing injustice. Being dispassionate is not inherently more “sane” or “reasonable,” having emotions is human and some things should provoke emotional reactions.
But of course, in reality, my response was quite calm and well reasoned, presenting plenty of evidence to support my points. You’re the one who can’t keep pace with that and have to resort to these petty insults in an attempt to discredit me, because you’re incapable of a logical response.
Are you saying that in an attempt to insult/discredit me in some way? Yes, I’m neurodivergent, and proud of it. I’m also correct on the points I made (save for mixing up Haidt and Chait, as I owned up to).
It’s not an insult, just an observation.
Thanks for confirming it.
I’ve been facing a lot more personal harassment over disagreements on the internet that should never lead to that level of harassment. Like taking photos of me from my profile, photoshopping them, sharing them labeled as a pedophile because of my appearance, and Last weekend I had an angry racist threaten to dox me to my employer that I— called out racism?— trying to get me fired.
I feel like the paid trolls have gotten really aggressive since the election.
Why are you posting photos of yourself or about your workplace online? First mistake
They take my profile picture. I don’t post about my job anywhere and it’s not on any of my profiles because I don’t associate with that place when I’m not there. I honestly don’t know how they found out where I work.
The special group of people providing negativity are probably bots anyway.
Nope. Its the same as it ever way.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/greater-internet-fuckwad-theory
IMO, the reason is because scientists haven’t found a way to punch someone in their face over the internet yet.
I’ve long thought that phones needed a taze button. Every telephone in the world should have the power to deliver a high power electric shock to the user, and the phone network should only allow the callee to taze the caller. So if you call someone, the person you have called can taze you.
I don’t see any problem with the telephone network that can’t be solved by putting a 30,000 volt potential across the caller’s jaw. Make it work on call bots too, if a computer automatically calls you and you don’t want it to, put Shearon Harris on the line. Modern problems require 2nd Amendment solutions, and if you elect me as your president in 2028 it is these policies that I shall energetically enact.
I like to carry an air horn for when scammers and other nuisances call.
How often do you have to go get the mics on your phone replaced?
Not yet. 😂
Dang! Some decent hardware then! How bout your own hearing? Getting tinnitus yet? What level of hearing protection are you using?
I’m an old Army veteran, I’ve had tinnitus for years. I’m using a Pixel.
Sorry, pardon?
Never even fiddled around with someone else’s Pixel, how do you like it?
Clearly it deals with being blasted by an air horn 3-15+ times a day, other than robust mics how is the build quality?
They send SWAT teams to their houses, which is pretty close.
It doesn’t quite have the same satisfying crunch though…
Who the fuck says I’m hostile ? Fuck you
the platforms see it as lucrative, therefore its hating eachother time.
No fucking shit we are. How did you crack that nut, Einstein?
Here’s the thing.
The last 10 years have proven that organized online hostility is VERY EFFECTIVE at dictating public opinion.
That’s how we got the new fascist movements. Trump and the like. Because right wing hostility and bigotry went not only unchecked institutionally but unchallenged socially.
No solution has emerged for that from an institutional level.
So yeah, my socialist ass is fighting back. I’ll be damned if I’m going to spend the rest of my life under these fucking wastes of flesh and their bullshit antiquated opinions. I’m done taking it and I’m done tolerating it. Fuck every last republican and homophobe and transphobe and complicit liberal. All of them. And wouldn’t you know it, little by little they’re backing down when we stand up to them like the cowards they are.
Yes, I am deliberately far more hostile online, because it WORKS. And clearly nobody with institutional control cares enough to try anything else.
The only problem is that you guys call everyone a transphone or homophobe or liberal or whatever, all the time. Its actually a bit funny because you dont see the forest for the trees. Everyone has to think exactly the same or they are THE ENEMY and need to be keyboard warriored into compliance with right-think :)
Apart from anything else, spending all that energy resisting change that’s coming anyway must be exhausting. It’s no wonder they’re so cranky.
I remember how this worked in Sweden where I live
Yeah, things don’t work that way everywhere.
We tried being nice in America. It got us here.
You just go back to enjoying your ivory tower. We have actual problems here and your high road is not the solution.
How did you try being nice? You have a war on everything… Drugs, freedom, privacy… Im honestly not sure how you see yourself as being nice…
High road? Im also not sure how you took the high road. Im genuinely interested, maybe my perspective here is completely wrong.
Some of those were well intended over reactions.
- “War on drugs” was hyperbole to stoke up enthusiasm to fight against a real problem. And somehow ended with millions of broken lives, millions behind bars for victimless crimes, worse racism. Maybe it was taken over by racists, or maybe we all got caught up in the moment, but it was mostly not being able to face when it went wrong, then eventually only the worst conservatives were in charge
- “War on organized crime” also well intended hyperbole to mobilize effort against a real problem. People forgot lessons about whether the “means justifies the end”, and now after trying to get back to a normal life we’re left with legalized rights violations. “For our own good”, a surveillance state, more racism, legalized theft, and cops above the law. As we tried to recover, only the worst authoritarians were left in charge and it got worse quickly.
All of those things you mentioned were right wing power grabs.
Taking the high road was letting that shit become mainstream.
Conformity of thought, belief, or action isn’t the problem. The oroblem is treating some people or groups as less than human and not deserving of equal rights and opportunities.
Sir this is a Lemmy… WTF is you talking about?
Show where people on the are treated as less than human…
Your brain really is in the bin…
Nice one ;)
If you have calm discussions and listen, you will absolutely 100% see that most people are actually quite alright. Even if they dont like trans people, they will eventuelly get there, by having discussions and chats and seeing them in the real world.
Respectfully, you have no idea what you’re talking about. I live in Texas and I am surrounded by the conservative mindset. There is a chittering madness about these people that causes them to frenzy any time something triggers them as being “woke” or “trans” or in any way challenging to their narrow world-view. They cannot be reasoned with, I have tried far too long with no effect. Their beliefs are couched in white christonationalism and the stupid masses having their stupid beliefs vindicated by bad actors in positions of power.
These people do not feel that anyone unlike them has the right to live the way they want. They WANT to strip trans people of their rights. Pleading for empathy has fallen on empty ears and the ONLY thing that is providing any clarity to these morons is when they themselves are hurt by the stupidity they have summoned. The only time I have heard anyone from the conservative side second guess their vote is when it started to impact them personally. Not when billionaires were immediately given tax cuts, not when children were forcibly taken from their parents, not when first amendment rights violations are being codified into law, not when people have literally been vanished off the streets. None of it matters to them.
Counterpoint: call out bigotry or fuck off
You know, there oneliners may sound cool when you are a teenager, but they are signs of a mind who thinks in absolutes, because there is no wisdom yet.
It will come through life and getting older. :)
Nah. Can almost guarantee I would have been on your side when I was your age.
The problem is these are the people who won’t get there, plus they’re harming a lot of people in the meantime.
Codger mode ….
Back when I was a wee young’un, I lived in a small town in a rural area. Republicans ideals made sense (whose not to like fiscal prudence), we read about the crime ridden horrors of big cities, read about the inbred fear of education down south, read about drugs destroying peoples lives, read about welfare queens, read about illegal immigrants and crime. We “weren’t racist” but those dark skin people were violent criminals. Products of our environments I guess.
Like you, I grew up. As I was exposed to a larger variety of people, I discovered they were people. As I saw more people in situations outside their control, I developed more empathy. As I got to know people with different preferences than mine, I learned their preferences didn’t do me any harm. Now decades later, it’s hard to understand the fear, oppression, racism, hatred, and it’s impossible to understand the unethical inconsistent self serving authoritarians that Republicans have become. I’ve seen it too. I apologize to everyone I hurt because it took years for me to grow into a better human being.
The problem is these are the people who never grew out of it. They’re the people who saw their friends and family expand their horizons, but retreated ever deeper into their holes. Theyre the people who saw progress and desperately yearned for a mythical past that never was. They’re the people who saw everyone else growing out of their limitations, and turned to extremism. They are not joining everyone else but have turned their backs and headed the other directions. They are the diehards wallowing in their misery who don’t care about anyone else’s misery. They are the righteous who have lost their way, cloaking their hatred, spite and corruption is self-righteous desperation. They are the self-centered stealing from society and stealing from the future. They are the limited viewpoint building ever higher walls against fear of the outside. They won’t change.
There’s a war going on.
A war of ideas.
