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Just give us about 30 or so years
This guy just spews his bullshit, Would it be nice if they could be made in United States? Yeah sure but the thing is an iPhone would cost like $3500. And I know damn straight I’m not paying that much for a phone. And I’m pretty sure you guys wouldn’t either and that’s coming from someone that sometimes makes some stupid financial decisions and that is not one I would make
If Apple didn’t try to make 400% markup on their underpowered trash, it would probably just cost what it costs now. Except the child slave labor part would go away.
My almost five year old piece of under powered apple trash cost me less than 45 US cents a day, still has regular OS updates and works between eight to ten hours most days running my entire life. I might even splurge out and buy a new one if they ever release an overpowered non trash handset…
Except the child slave labor part would go away.
That’s the neat part, the republicans are trying to repeal child labor laws.
underpowered trash
I hate to say it, but it’s actually quite powerful trash that they produce.
Yeah, I’m in the process of shifting all of my workflows over to Linux/Android from all-Apple, but my Macs are a huge sticking point. My main computer is an M2 Macbook Air, which is ridiculously quick. I’m basically just waiting for Asahi to gain display port over USB, at which point I’ll ditch macOS. But until then…
8GB of RAM on a laptop today is f-ing ridiculous.
Lol I agree. The value is horrendous when you spec one of their products to have decent storage/ram, but nevertheless can’t fault the speed of their ARM chips.
Way more than you need for Facebook and pornhub. 8GB is fine for a low spec laptop.
That’s how much more efficient MacOS and the M series silicon is.
I mean I would pay a premium for a made in America phone. Probably about 2 times as much. Iphones just suck ass so I’d never pay for one at all
people screwing in little, little screws
it’s going to be automated
Sure that’s not automated yet?
Everything’s computer!
Apparently jobs like that, which require fine motor skills, are extremely difficult to automate.
Weird. Not like pcb fabs haven’t been doing that for ages. And not necessarily the solder flood type chip mounts either.
Pick and place machines are one thing, but plugging in tiny connectors, screws that need a little wiggle to go in the hole, things like that are a different story.
Probably also a factor is that you would be spinning up a whole production line and automation systems for phones that will only be in production for 12 to 18 months, after which you’d have to adapt or redo everything for the new model.
Use the same cameras and AI that Musk said were gonna fully automate Tesla
I don’t want my iPhone to get the build quality of a motorized dumpster
Nope, I’ve long worked in designing for North American electronics manufacturing, it’s still manual. We just outsource as many of those sub assemblies as possible to cheaper countries and design things with as few fasteners as possible.
That really is the least of the worries, there just isn’t the manufacturing infrastructure for all the raw material and individual parts, manufacturing those parts just isn’t feasible to do at a reasonable cost or schedule outside of Asia. China is still popular not due to cost, they are no longer cheapest, but because they have the infrastructure in place.
iPhone about to cost $5000
iPhone 17: Patriots-Only Edition
The Trump base will blame Obama/Biden/Clinton, I guarantee it.
It must be so freeing to live a life more divorced from logic or reality than an indoor dog.
Maybe eliminating natural selection was a mistake.
Why is the iPhone the benchmark?
This is also global, not even US data; iPhones are phenomenally more popular over there than anywhere else as far as I know. This is also one of the reasons some seriously begin to believe Android would be a “poor man’s phone”.
They’re more often subsidized by carriers here (in the US), too. I didn’t really want an iPhone, but $400 new for a Plus, with a plan discount, just makes an Android set not worth it.
At that point I would start questioning why that particular phone is subsidized so much. Seems sus.
Of course it is. They want 1500 bucks for something with a few hundred dollars of overhead. R and d not withstanding they’ll want the same amount of profit for the phone if it’s made in America and profits have to increase year after year! They can’t make a little less profit they have to make more than before!
it’s not just acost the issue, there’s not enough skilled people to actually build them.
Industrial engineers, people that would be willing to assemble devices would be in short supply
If you offer good pay and good benefits at a decent working environment people will flock to assembly lines in the US. Christ they were basically invented here.
However unemployment figures suggest that would be impossible to do in practice.
No. No it doesn’t.
There are 7.1 million people unemployed in the US officially. Realistically that number is probably much, much higher.
You’re saying apple can’t hire a few hundred people to work on an assembly line?
That’s ~4% that is typically considered low but even if it wasn’t.
It’s not one assembly line, and one product only… it’s every component from the chips to the glass, screen, circuit board and then the final one on.
You would need also experienced people in every part you would need to manufacture including engineers that are in short supply, an nevermind building the factories etc…
As someone who has done a bunch of phone repairs with the help of YouTube, assembly isn’t that hard. If they don’t want to assemble them here, it’s completely about profit margins. We should be taking steps to reduce that profit margin. Tax the rich and all that.
China uses little kids to build them. If we did the same in the US, America s would want to have MORE CHILDREN because they would literally pay for themselves!
Just imagine if all middle schools in the US required 2 hours of iPhone assembly per day. It would be excellent industrial training for the future generation!
Sucks to suck, buy used
What if the ‘used’ run out?
Repair, smuggle, Jerry rig
By that time it will be the new world order…
You will have bigger issues to worry about lol
Do they have tariffs on second hand goods from Asia being imported to sell to poor Americans who cant afford local?
the kicker will be when new-from-China plus 100% tariff is still cheaper than American made …
If it’s imported, there’s a tariff.
Don’t be so negative. By 2035, a 2500 dollar us made iPhone might be possible.
We already have foldables in that price range.
Because of the child laborers making 85 cents an hour?
Inflation
Yeah but by 2035 the US dollar will be worth about 8 pence. If they’re lucky.
I’m hoping for 1USD = 1 yen, then were really going to be #winning by stealing all of the Japanese manufacturing industry!
That would make building a $2500 iPhone in the US even more difficult.
Trump “saving” America from anything is pure fantasy true, and yet he got elected - TWICE. The fantasy of idiocracy is reality. Make people desperate enough for work by gutting minimum wage, Medicare, and everything else MAGA plans to do to create a feudal system, and the US becomes a cheap labor source to sell US-made iPhones and all kinds of other shit abroad. Either get used to that reality or figure out what to do about it.
Watch out for the leopard!
US can’t manufacture iPhones, but it can manufacture other things. That you can’t build Versaille overnight doesn’t mean you can’t plant a few flowers and lay one square stone.
I think SPARC CPUs were manufactured in the USA even in 00s.
The whole re-industrialization idea is good, people making something know it’s not magical and wonderful. That an ARM CPU in an iPhone is a relative of an MC in a toy, and that said MC’s internal structure can be grasped in an evening.
Worker jobs in manufacture affect societies very well. Just believing that this is going to happen means believing yet another US administration promising something until its term ends.
Which is what subsidies are for. Encourage companies to do the things you want, don’t destroy the economy by making everything else impractical lmao. I see what the end goal is, supposedly, it’s just an extremely stupid, naive, or outright malicious way of accomplishing it.
The taxes will continue until manufacturing improves.
Maybe if wages actually rose with productivity, Americans could actually afford goods made within the United States.
It’s not even about wages. The precision tooling and engineering equipment would probably take a decade of development to get the US equivalent with China. We just don’t have it here.
And it’s not about rising wages with productivity. Americans by and large don’t want to work in factories or manufacturing. The pay would have to be astronomical to fill the needed positions.
The pay WOULD be astronomical if it had kept pace with CEOs, that’s the point
wouldn’t higher wages make stuff cost more? I’m kinda confused
The sheer amount of money being removed by the 1 percent is regoddamndiculous. It’s something like 45 trillion dollars since wages diverged from productivity in 1975.
And it’s only speeding up now that we have a cabinet of billionaires for billionaires.
And they’re pumping and dumping the market every single day.
CEO pay can mitigate that if they’re willing to make less.
But then how would they afford multiple cars, planes, and houses?
/s
Hahaha
This whole presidency is raised for maximizing CEO income and no taxes for everyone at the top.
It will be interesting if Trump actually manages to pull it off, because he’ll make the US swap places with China:
No one trusts the country anymore, but if it has low enough wages and proper production capability it will produce everything cheaply just to export it all overseas where the luxury goods will be sold. Of course all profits will be made overseas, not in the US because hardly anyone can afford the luxury items no more.Meanwhile the production states will get deep smog clouds and intense small coal particle pollution in return. And the need for face masks will be back…
That the real issue right there. But that’s why all the manufacturing went out of the country in the first place. Often because businesses were sold, or passed on to their children. Then the new owners were only doing it for the money.
Then the new owners were only doing it for the money.
As opposed to what reason for owning a factory??
Yes for the money, but often people who start a business do it because they have an personal interest in what their business is about. As opposed to those who later take over the business and are then really only interested in the money.
That’s one of the issues with how we’ve (most western capitalist countries) been doing this.
People are struggling for money so minimum wage goes up. Labour to create things is now more expensive and prices go up.
There is only one solution and that’s to theoretically (or technically) eating the rich that are hoarding all of the wealth.
What really needs to stop is the obscene bonus culture. It is quite disgusting to keep reading a company needs to lay off 500 people only to then give some CEO a bonus of 15million. Or banks running a deep 9 digit number loss in a year but still the higher ups get a bonus for some reason or a vague years old contractual promise. The top should feel loss first before it “trickles down”, and honest pay for honest work should include the top as well.
And while I am at it, senseless management jobs should be allowed to be contested, no more “manager toiletpaper” who only shows up once a week to make an order, yet makes 5x the wages of people under him.
That would be one step in the theoretical eating of the rich, yes.
Yeah, like a couple years ago, the CEO of Sanford Health hospitals quit / retired, and when he left gave himself a 17 million dollar bonus. No wonder medical bills are so high. Gotta have that needless bonus.
In a “frictionless vacuum”, yes. Real world economics is much more complex however and higher wages = higher product prices doesn’t quite hold true. Read productivity-pay gap.
Its looking more and more like the end result is just going to be millions of Americans will have to do without, Live with less.
and no doubt at the same time their oligarch fantasy-wealthy overlords will preach to them about Spartan values or something. Ultranationalist Jingo Ghouls will talk about how its tough times create strong men, or about how we all have to prepare for war with China or something.
Soon we can translate all the GDR jokes and use them for the US.
Its looking more and more like the end result is just going to be millions of Americans will have to do without, Live with less.
Phones are the de facto platform for two factor authentication of everything; I don’t see how society is going to walk backwards to phones being an optional luxury item.
the market will be taken over by cheaper, less “luxury” alternatives.
Spartan values would be accurate given that it was a slave state with something like 7 to 10 helots per Spartan. And yet 300 has turned King Leonidas into a legendary hero… for defending a slave state. Human perspective is too malleable.
They are fine on their island hideouts on Martha’s Vineyard and gated forts in Florida
will preach to them about Spartan values or something
Spartans kinda invented separation of branches of power. Not all bad things.
But since they were a slave-holding polity, where actual citizens of Sparta were the occupiers and the helot population hated them with passion, that didn’t last for too long.
Also the real world attempt at Spartan values (in philosophy) was the USSR, you can trace the ideas and how it was built architecturally, didn’t work too well. Of the “layers of citizenry” too, their workers turned into poets, their warriors turned into slaves, and their philosophers turned into thieves.
USA in any case just can’t be that, not in this century.
Also the real world attempt at Spartan values (in philosophy) was the USSR
???
You are going to really have to expand on the argument there.
Basically a group of Marxist revolutionaries captured power in a big enough country, and their intention was to build a new society, a new world order, without capitalism as they saw it, and by means they could somehow devise.
So - I’m too dumb to expand well on this, but see the (formally dead since late 20s) concept of a soviet (a council) in the initial intended system. Citizens would both decide the fate of their polity and be inseparable from a collective, so soviet system is very simple - an atomic unit (a house, a factory line) elects their representative, on the next level (a factory or a street, for example) such representatives elect ones for the next level (a district or a town), and so on. A polity can retract their representative any time, they just need to vote on it. That works for all levels, so if the new representative decides to retract polity’s vote for the level after it, there’s a new vote, and a chain effect is possible of removing the highest representatives.
This would seem OK and fine for you, but in fact it means that a lower polity can be pressed\intimidated\deceived into doing what I described any time, and so on. Which is why during Stalin’s ascent to unchallenged power he didn’t even break that system, just put a little bit of social pressure more via speeches than via threats.
So - this mandatory grouping seems to me in idea similar.
One can see some similarity between Soviet education not system, but rather pipeline, and the age cohorts in Sparta, say, toddlers were “consecrated” or “accepted” into “oktyabryata”, in 12 (if I remember correctly), into “pioneers”, schools and universities and technicums all had that strong grouping in activities, say, schoolchildren were sent in groups by age to mandatory competitions and warlike games (“Zarnitsa”, BTW, actually a good thing, teaches one orientation, coordination of movements of large groups of people, use of radio for communication and detecting communications of others, - all useful), students were sent in large groups to construction sites or harvests to work, etc. There were both rituals and actual mechanisms similar.
OK, I guess I’m just trying to find something
I really don’t think that works. Basically any human system of government is going to group people and have hierarchies. Same with mass movements.
Sparta was basically an aristocratic oligarchy/monarchy. This series of articles is an amazing breakdown of the history of Sparta and the way its government was organized.
When we talk about “Spartans” we are referring to a very small group of men who held held a form of aristocratic status. Sparta was a slave society - the vast majority of those living in Sparta were helots, slaves, who had little rights or recourse against the Spartans.
I don’t think there was really anything analogous to a soviet. Society wasn’t really organized around economic production. I don’t think you can really compare the education systems either - Spartans had little internet in creating poets, artists or engineers.
Really, the goal of the Spartans was to be lazy aristocratic fucks who played soldier while the helots did the work. They were pretty shit at it too. But all about warriors and honor, “return with your shield or on it” at least in theory. Terrorize the helots every once in a while to keep them in line and make your dick feel big.
The goal of the Soviet project was rapid industrial development to set up the conditions necessary for the abolishment of the state/“true communism.” Stalin was an autocratic fuckwad that quickly gave up on anything resembling values in part because Jews and gays are icky, and steered that project straight into a wall.
I guess one commonality is the the USSR was one of the first states to legalize same sex intercourse, and the Spartans were all about mansex.
Sparta was basically an aristocratic oligarchy/monarchy.
USSR was the same except it made trash aristocracy. There was one difference, the CC CPSU really was a college, Brezhnev couldn’t make decisions all alone, for example. But, well, Sparta was sort of a college on top too, if I remember correctly.
See those movies and stories of USSR’s public culture of the 30s-50s - that pompous imperial pretense, those main heroes with steel scornful faces looking down at subservient or immoral or not to be trusted helpers. Not everything, but there is a feel.
Like “Fourth height” - unironically a movie of a girl who flew airplanes in her teens, in USSR, as sport, then became an actress, and then a medic on a frontline and killed there. That’s even less normal social level in the USSR than, say, in England. But such things were given as a something normal, there are those people rightfully better in our just socialist society.
Again, that’s Stalin’s time.
I don’t think you can really compare the education systems either - Spartans had little internet in creating poets, artists or engineers.
You do realize all the official parts of Soviet art were about ideology and what didn’t impede it? And heavy industries were built around military goals. Most of Soviet industries existed in peacetime just so it would be easier to convert them in case of war, and what they were producing in peacetime was secondary.
Really, the goal of the Spartans was to be lazy aristocratic fucks who played soldier while the helots did the work. They were pretty shit at it too. But all about warriors and honor, “return with your shield or on it” at least in theory. Terrorize the helots every once in a while to keep them in line and make your dick feel big.
They were actually subsidized (or one can say paid as mercenaries) by other cities\rulers often. They were apparently not too shit at war for that, but certainly not qualitatively better than everyone else.
The goal of the Soviet project was rapid industrial development to set up the conditions necessary for the abolishment of the state/“true communism.”
Nah, it even officially was world revolution first, military for that, industries for that, communism later. Stalin retconned it into socialism in one country, but industries still for war, because it fit him better. After him Soviet ideology was retconned into socialist friendship of peoples, unification of humanity and industries to achieve that and communism.
in part because Jews and gays are icky, and steered that project straight into a wall.
Usually hateful parts are done “because we can” and are not the main reason.
I guess one commonality is the the USSR was one of the first states to legalize same sex intercourse, and the Spartans were all about mansex.
For a couple of years, until that was made illegal and a mental illness, together with banning abortions and other progressive socialist future-aimed policies.
I’m not really seeing connections being drawn here at all, other than the reflexive USSR bashing that happens any time Soviet history comes up?
Is the argument the Spartans and the Soviets were similar in that they were both bad? Can we pick eras we want to compare at least?
Just because you can make phones with an army of cheap Chinese labour doesn’t mean that’s the only or best way. With suitable “design for manufacture”, pick and place robots like those used in PCB design could relatively easily be adopted to screw screws in where needed. Use plugs instead of those flat cable things, then the whole lot could be easily automated. Remove any aspect of the design that needs fingers and the whole process can be automated.
TBH most of the cost is from the individual components. The core chip fab, the memory fab, the oled screen fab, the battery, power regulation, cameras, all massive operations and very automated. Not to speak of the software stack. Or the chip R&D and tape out costs.
The child labor is awful, but it’s not the most expensive part of a $1k+ iPhone.
The most expensive part of an iPhone is the >50% profit margin
An old chart:
Wow what a great idea, I wonder why nobody else has ever thought about it.
If that were possible they would have already done that, since it’s cheaper to fully automate everything in the long run than to have humans involved in any part of the manufacturing process. No matter how cheap you get the labor automation will still beat it out, unless they are literal slaves, and even then the quality of work probably won’t be as good as an automated system, so it still might not be economically sensible.
They already tried “made in America” Apple products and they did not sell! Americans don’t want to pay $5K for an iPhone when they can pay 80% less for one made in China.
Ok but what if they cannot pay 80% less for one made in China?
Well that sucks but they sure as hell won’t be able to buy one “made in America” either. The raw materials for batteries alone would have tariffs on them as well. Unless we have massive amounts of cobalt, lithium, copper, silicon, cadmium, etc, to be able to produce these items domestically, working class and middle class Americans will not be able to afford them.
What? They do. Apple sells tens of millions of iPhones each year in the US.
They did past tense. How about with a 140%+ tariff?
They’ll make iPhones in India. Which is actually what they are doing right now. Or in Vietnam. Or Ethiopia. You can’t tariff everyone 140% if you want your economy to work.
Haha as if that will stop Trump
What if you dont want your economy to work?
