Fuck these misogynistic pigs, idiots like these need to be called out more often. It’s too bad she couldn’t give names out and completely humiliate and ruin them.
While I agree with the first part of what you said, I don’t think the longterm solution is to call out individuals and make their lives horrible. It sure is a good way to maybe deter a few people from doing those misogynistic things. But what we need is actual structural change. It shouldn’t be possible these people to do such things in the first place without being sanctioned. And we should educate people more on feminism and intersectional struggles in general.
counterpoint: many people fundamentally need to be shamed if they’re being shitheads, or they will never improve. The important part is just that they also need to be given a clear way to redeem themselves.
Naming and shaming is part of the structural change.
Only if the accusations are true. It is just a post on the internet, there is no proof any of this is true or factual. Don’t be in such a hurry to harm others and damage their lives.
As a woman, and having known many other women, I can promise you that none of what is mentioned is particularly far fetched. It’s sad, but we all have multiple stories like this. Almost any woman could put together a similar paragraph of incidents she has personally experienced.
Edit to add: she didn’t even name anyone! No one is harmed, except the people who know they should be ashamed of themselves.
As a man I’d have never believed how common such behavior is. I’d have thought that’s really outlandish.
Now I’ve gone through the (probably stereotypical) process of a guy having a daughter, she’s an adult now.
What she told me - no, all this stuff isn’t unusual at all. The first time she was afraid (and called me as she already had a phone of her own) she was not even 10 years old, riding her bike from my place to the ex-wife’s place, teenage boys catcalling her.
There’s a lot of us men around who find it hard to believe, because it doesn’t happen to US. But it does. Frequently.
It’s worth noting too that for every instance of feeling scared, there are at least 5 situations where women feel belittled. I think even well meaning men are a lot less aware of it happening, or of them doing it themselves. My own father is a sweetheart who means well, but he’s skeptical of anything I tell him until my husband repeats what I’m saying. I’ve had achievements minimized because I didn’t also raise a family while doing them. I’ve been denied entry into hobbies. I’ve been given fewer opportunities at work because they want a cute face at the front desk. I’ve been told math is not for me, while being the only middle schooler in the math team who could regularly beat high schoolers at competitions. I’ve been told no boys would ever want to be my friend, because boys can only be after one thing, so all the ones being friendly are faking it. And of courses I’ve had boys stop being my friend when it becomes clear that friendship is all I’m after.
It’s harder to spot but cuts to your self worth like these add up over time.
It’s not happening to us, but it’s happening all around us and we choose not to see it. Once my own daughter began talking to me about her experiences and pointing out men’s problematic behavior in public, I can no longer not see it.
I know it never happened around me personally, I’m tall and mean looking, but working in service for over a decade and most people don’t know how bad it is. You learn that the restraining order needs to happen BEFORE it gets worse not as it gets worse. And none of that protects workers traveling to work. You can’t let anyone walk alone to their car alone after close, and if a guy comes in and asks for an associate with those creep vibes, and they aren’t known to the associate or a part of their private life in anyway, you need to aggressively fight it. On visit two looking for her, you have to pull her behind closed doors and report to the police he’s stalking and get a restraining order. SECOND VISIT. Anything less and you’re letting to go way to far.
Fuck these misogynistic pigs, idiots like these need to be called out more often. It’s too bad she couldn’t give names out and completely humiliate and ruin them.
While I agree with the first part of what you said, I don’t think the longterm solution is to call out individuals and make their lives horrible. It sure is a good way to maybe deter a few people from doing those misogynistic things. But what we need is actual structural change. It shouldn’t be possible these people to do such things in the first place without being sanctioned. And we should educate people more on feminism and intersectional struggles in general.
counterpoint: many people fundamentally need to be shamed if they’re being shitheads, or they will never improve. The important part is just that they also need to be given a clear way to redeem themselves.
Naming and shaming is part of the structural change.
Only if the accusations are true. It is just a post on the internet, there is no proof any of this is true or factual. Don’t be in such a hurry to harm others and damage their lives.
As a woman, and having known many other women, I can promise you that none of what is mentioned is particularly far fetched. It’s sad, but we all have multiple stories like this. Almost any woman could put together a similar paragraph of incidents she has personally experienced.
Edit to add: she didn’t even name anyone! No one is harmed, except the people who know they should be ashamed of themselves.
As a man I’d have never believed how common such behavior is. I’d have thought that’s really outlandish.
Now I’ve gone through the (probably stereotypical) process of a guy having a daughter, she’s an adult now.
What she told me - no, all this stuff isn’t unusual at all. The first time she was afraid (and called me as she already had a phone of her own) she was not even 10 years old, riding her bike from my place to the ex-wife’s place, teenage boys catcalling her.
There’s a lot of us men around who find it hard to believe, because it doesn’t happen to US. But it does. Frequently.
It’s worth noting too that for every instance of feeling scared, there are at least 5 situations where women feel belittled. I think even well meaning men are a lot less aware of it happening, or of them doing it themselves. My own father is a sweetheart who means well, but he’s skeptical of anything I tell him until my husband repeats what I’m saying. I’ve had achievements minimized because I didn’t also raise a family while doing them. I’ve been denied entry into hobbies. I’ve been given fewer opportunities at work because they want a cute face at the front desk. I’ve been told math is not for me, while being the only middle schooler in the math team who could regularly beat high schoolers at competitions. I’ve been told no boys would ever want to be my friend, because boys can only be after one thing, so all the ones being friendly are faking it. And of courses I’ve had boys stop being my friend when it becomes clear that friendship is all I’m after.
It’s harder to spot but cuts to your self worth like these add up over time.
It’s not happening to us, but it’s happening all around us and we choose not to see it. Once my own daughter began talking to me about her experiences and pointing out men’s problematic behavior in public, I can no longer not see it.
I know it never happened around me personally, I’m tall and mean looking, but working in service for over a decade and most people don’t know how bad it is. You learn that the restraining order needs to happen BEFORE it gets worse not as it gets worse. And none of that protects workers traveling to work. You can’t let anyone walk alone to their car alone after close, and if a guy comes in and asks for an associate with those creep vibes, and they aren’t known to the associate or a part of their private life in anyway, you need to aggressively fight it. On visit two looking for her, you have to pull her behind closed doors and report to the police he’s stalking and get a restraining order. SECOND VISIT. Anything less and you’re letting to go way to far.
As the husband of a woman with a PhD, let me assure you that I have witnessed several of these first hand when I travel with her to conferences.
A bit more, this is a chapter from a PhD thesis
We should absolutely ruin their lives. Fuckem