Because we have been letting them run their mouths again without being afraid.
You wana know how to get them to shut the fuck up look up why nazis don’t go to punk shows anymore.
You want to get rid of them. You have 2 options 1 is illegal, and I can’t say what it is, and option 2 is through education and thearpy and them wanting to change.
I can say what it is…beat the shit out of them. I probably won’t unless it came to war, and then I would use weapons instead.
A similar option that I’m willing to say is “see a nazi, punch a nazi.” I am anti-violence, but I don’t have a problem with people who punch nazis. Nazi principles are vile.
If you see someone else punch a nazi, no you didn’t. That nazi fell.
Or hit a doorknob.
I suggested this many months ago and got a time out. Amazing how different each mod is.
There have always been susceptible idiots.
Nazi’s are just a byproduct of an eroding standard of living. When things are good and getting better, there just isn’t the fertile ground for that kind of ideology, even among the idiots.
When standard of living is on the decline? Anyone who gives a simple answer and a simple solution gets the attention of idiots.
It reminds me of and I don’t know where I read it at but there was this guy who was trying to sell his pet rock in Africa. And told the buyer it keeps lions away. The buyer asked how does it work. The seller simply told him you do not see any lions do you and the buyer bought it.
It could be a joke that’s been around forever, but I know it from The Simpsons: https://youtu.be/4GzMizVAl-0
It could be a joke that’s been around forever
FWIW, I think I remember Bert and Ernie doing this in Sesame Street in the 70s, though I can’t seem to find a clip at the moment.
If you think your dad was sent to fight against the Nazis for ideological opposition, i have bad news for you. Maybe he personally fought out of that motivation, but must countries at the time were either fascist themselves or on the edge to fascism.
If you look at the US there was the ongoing genocide against native Americans, the racial segregation, eugenics, despicable human experimentation carried out on minorities, concentration camps for Japanese during WW2… Even the pledge to the flag in the schools was something Hitler admired and copied. Until the German Nazis became unpopular in the US the pledge to the flag with done with the “Bellamy Salute” that is the same as the Nazi salute. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
)The truth is, they never left.
What is different though is that after WW2 it was understood which social problems, in particular fucking over the lower and middle class, create the breeding ground for fascism to be successful. Since the 1980s with Thatcher and Reagan and then the neoliberal wave over Europe, we had 40 years of deliberately empowering fascism. Now they reap what they sew.
I have to differ on your last point. I don’t think capitalism is necessarily at fault, nor must the working/middle classes be struggling for fascism to emerge. If anything, quite the opposite. It is the better off countries that end up turning fascist. All fascist countries are/were first world countries, in various states of advanced development.
I think it would be more accurate to say that fascism is an extreme form of imperialism, because they are ultimately very similar sentiments. A more powerful group taking advantage in various ways, of a less powerful group. Now you could say, “it’s all the same thing”, capitalism, imperialism, fascism, it’s all the same “hierarchy is the ultimate source of evil dynamic”, but it seems to me that this just reduces all these concepts to absurdity.
Fascism is also on the rise because of improved technology for thought control / propaganda / public relations / advertising. Social media lets the worst of humanity band together and pool their energy.
But wealth inequality, both worse effective quality of life for the poor and increased economic power by the wealthy is I believe a main driver. Technology is just the tool. The ultra wealthy and their lackeys today have more power than ever and are more isolated and inundated with ideology that is basically insane.
I wonder if there are studies that show correlations between quality of life and fascism in different nations.
Capitalisms’ unsustainable model of infinite growth requires something like imperialism to keep going, and even if you could point out alternative venues for capital acquisition, it’s still what people in power want, since it gives them more than just fuel for capitalism, but also more power. Countries and companies that do not rely on imperialism directly, most often rely in others that do. While it’s not entirely futile to discuss whenever that has to be the case in theorethical capitalist solution, it is the case in one we’re living under, and since it’s the ruling class of hyper-wealthy that make decisions about the worlds future and current state of affairs is result of those decisions, it is the system we have to deal with. Unless, you know, we bring out the guilottines and start over, but I don’t see much point in retrying capitalism to see if it won’t lead us down on the path to facism again.
I guess we have to disagree. Growth is an inherently good thing in my view, and I don’t based that on capitalistic ideology. Without growth, the metaphorical pie is finite. What does this mean? It means there is some distribution of this pie, however equal or unequal. Now on one side you will have people like you trying to make the distribution more equal. On the other side you will have war lords, dictators, and power hungry individuals trying to grab more of the pie for themselves. All of you will have to resort to violence to make that happen.
And the magic of economic growth is that you can enrich the world without having to physically fight other people to steal their shit.
The bottom line is, we would have even more imperialism if we did not have economic growth.
Growth isn’t a problem when it’s sustainable. However, there are natural limits to how far and how fast technological development and resource extraction will allow us to grow the economy.
Additionally, competition within capitalism forces the wealthy to seek out any and all means of growth. If they do not they actually risk all of their wealth becoming devalued. This drives innovation but it also is the driver of imperialism, exploitation, environmental degradation, all of which grow the economy.
When growth because less attainable due to various natural constrains, the wealthy start to cannibalize the systems that keep society stable. Again, they can’t help themselves. If they don’t their class position is threatened as some other capital owner beats them to the limited profits that come from privatization and austerity.
This usually results in mass unrest across all the various classes in society. That includes some of the middle classes who also rely on exploitation to maintain their standard of living. In response to threat of social unrest, the wealthy usually align themselves with right wing authoritarians that claim to be able to bring order to the chaos and renew growth through imperial expansion. This kind of politics is often supported by some of the downwardly mobile middle classes. That’s how we get fascism.
Where does that growth come from?
I don’t think capitalism is necessarily at fault, nor must the working/middle classes be struggling for fascism to emerge. If anything, quite the opposite. It is the better off countries that end up turning fascist. All fascist countries are/were first world countries, in various states of advanced development.
That’s not right, at least not for the fascist regimes in Europe that emerged prior to WW2. The countries where it happened (specifically Germany/Italy/Spain) had all seen civil unrest or even civil war in the recent past, they were hit hard by the global financial crisis in the twenties and had high unemployment and widespread poverty. This was the very thing the fascists used to ingratiate themselves to the public at large, by creating jobs through massive public building and rearmament projects.
By the way “first world countries” is post-WW2 terminology and didn’t originally have a connotation of superior economic status, but was referring strictly to ideological alignment. Whether a country belonged to the capitalist/communist/unaligned block in international politics during the cold war.
Because look at the world now. Hitler was right.
It’s not just Nazis. The world is trending towards authoritarianism across the board, on the right and the left. Democratic and social institutions everywhere are failing. People don’t trust each other anymore.
The real problem: in the race to build massive civilizations we have destroyed all of our communities.
The US imported a LOOOT of Nazis to get access to research - Operation Paperclip. So Nazis in government jobs given immunity
It makes a lot of sense how that bled out
Paperclip is the hangout for Operation Bloodstone.
You can lie and say nazis like Werner Von Braun were actually apolitical smol beans who just wanted to do science, you can’t even pretend random commanders and officers were.
Woo, I learn more horrifying things every day!
My dad fought the Nazi’s they lost
“Oh I’m sorry. How did they die?”
“Die? No, we lost them. And now we cannot find them”
“Oh there they are! Right there!”
It’s because the word has entirely different meaning now than it did back then. The vast majority of people would struggle to name even one literal nazi that’s still alive today. Instead we incorrectly use that term to describe people we don’t like such as Trump and Elon.
The meaning is exactly the same. The problem is that people are not aware of what the political motivations were for the Nazis. The Nazis were known for their blatant anti-semitism, but you need to look at the bigger picture about why there are comparisons between the Nazis, Trump and Elon. Most of the comparisons are quite accurate and the term “Nazi” is more than just a dirty word.
Mildly to your point, people use the word “Nazi” when they should actually be using the terms fascist or nationalist.
What’s funny, is some members of the GOP are labeling themselves as nationalists when they have no idea what it actually means. (Trump and one of the Karen’s have notably done that.)
To give an intellectually honest guess, I’d say the honest among them think that form of socialism is the best way to handle resources and that violent revolution is the only way to get there effectively. The dishonest among them likely just wanna exploit the rest of them.
The Nazis called themselves “national-socialists”, because socialism was popular at the time. Anyone who actually wanted socialism would have voted for the social-democratic party (SPD) or the communist party (KPD). The actual politics of the NSDAP were very much focused on the nationalist, xenophobic part. You just rarely have the baddies calling themselves “the baddies party”.
But what about the dudes doing it today?
The dudes doing socialism are socialists. The dudes doing racist and inhumane shit are nazis.
Do the Nazis even have a cover story at this point?
Yea but what happens if the succeed in a violent revolution. Then the other side comes along and overthrow them?
With another violent revolution? Iunno. Ask those guys.
Wouldn’t really be violent we just take back the government then put them on trial for the world to see.
But how?
With peaceful violence
capitalism. fascism is the logical conclusion of capitalism, so the entire world living in a capitalist society helps fascism rise. if you crush people’s spirits hard enough, you can give them easy solutions to their problems so they can get off your scent.
no no, the billionaires are awesome; it’s the immigrants honey. the education system would be awesome if not for drag queens baby. you would have healthcare but see it’s all the DEI hire sweetie.
it’s just lizard brain shit. “brown people bad” is just an easier and more convenient message to digest than trying to understand how the government and the economy actually works.
Sigh. One could also make the argument that capitalism is the only reason we have democracy at all. I am not allergic to socialist thinking, but putting all the blame on capitalism for everything is intellectually lazy.
I doubt the person you’re replying to would disagree that the advent of capitalism is in fact what brought liberal democracy into existence. The point though is that such progress is unsustainable under a capitalist system and that it will result in various crises, war, and fascism. Therefore we do need to find a way to move past capitalism if we want even the possibility of creating a better world.
I mean no sarcasm in this but you seem very knowledgeable do you got any links or something to support it because I love reading.
Not OP, but maybe the following: “The Mass Psychology of Fascism” by Wilhelm Reich provides an analysis of the psychological appeal of fascism, examining how economic conditions and capitalist societies create environments where fascist ideologies can thrive.
As actual living memory fades away it almost seems like a natural inevitability. It is already as mythologicial to many as World War 1 cavalry.
This.
Good people make soft people make bad people make good people.
They have kinda always been a thing. Nazi’s were just one flavor of nationalist, after all.
Charles de Gaulle defined nationalism best: “Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
For most people, it’s extremely easy to blame others for problems of their own creation. By the same token, people who can’t see their own shortcomings will also usually latch on to leaders who are able to amplify that bias. For the Nazis, it was mostly against the jews.
Also, what you are seeing in the news is partially amplified by the news itself but also, politicians are getting more brazen in mustering the support of those groups. This has lead to people being a little more open about something that needs to stay taboo, IMHO.
These leaders all make the same promise:
Whatever is wrong in your life is not your fault, nor is it even the fault of random chance/fate/god/what have you. It not no one’s fault either. There is a clear, definable enemy called X. X is the problem, and if we just deal with X, then you will have the life you dream of. I will make sure X never hurts you again.
Another interesting property of fascists is how their “enemy” is described in lurid but contradicting ways that don’t make any sense when you think about it for more than half a second.
One minute, the “enemy” is described as weak, pathetic, disgusting, sub-human, sickly, cowardly, stupid little losers who can’t punch out of a wet paper bag. The next minute, the “enemy” is described as threatening, all-seeing, clever, oppressive, bold and brazen, powerful, influential, dominating the government, ruining people’s lives, etc.
It’s maddening. And some people are absolute suckers for it.
You forgot cunning and plotting
Like Schroedinger’s Immigrant. At all times he is stealing your job and a lazy, jobless, criminal.
We need to spend more research funds observing these immigrants to collapse them into a single state!
Well shit, that’s a much shorter and better way to put it.
Is your dad still around? Maybe he was holding them at bay.
His dad sounds like a good man. I’d like to shake his hand. Or if thats not an option, salute his headstone.
Too much estrogen in the water
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I though it was ass to mouth.
Ass to mouth to ass to mouth to ass to mouth. Like a human centipede.
That’s a different movie entirely
