640kb should be enough for anybody.
640kb? Luxury.
50gbps **shared line using passive optical splitters. Bit misleading there Chona, nobody is getting an actual 50gbps connection to their house.
Its not that out of this world, though it is currently completely unneccessary. 10gb+ has been somewhat common residentially for years.
Getting real tired of these „China is 30 years ahead of us“ clickbait headlines on an almost daily basis. They‘re always completely overblown and sadly really warp the public perception of the country and their government.
They’re over here talking about 50Gb XGS-PON for residential like anyone is actually going to use it. I bet their end users will still complain about slow speeds.
I’m sure the hardware for 50Gbps optics wouldn’t be cheap for the consumer 🤣
The “innovation” in the article is passive tech for fiber to the room (FTTR), specifically made to be low cost and easier to implement. It’s also how your computer might get that 50Gbit - it’ll have to be wired in with a fiber connection. It’s not happening over WiFi (or even Ethernet)
There is nothing preventing housing being built with it, so it’s still viable, if currently drastic overkill. Most end-users wont have fiber cards in PCs to begin with, but that isn’t insurmountable either.
(or even Ethernet)
Technically, those 100+ Gbps fiber LAN/WAN connections used in data centers are also Ethernet, just not twisted pair.
That said recently I was in a retail store and saw “Cat8” cables for sale that advertised support for 40 Gbps copper ethernet! I wonder if any hardware to support that will ever be released. It is a real standard, approved way back in 2016: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Gigabit_Ethernet#40GBASE-T
Those cables are hard to terminate properly. There’s an outer grounding sheath that needs to be connected up at both ends. Except for short connections, I find it easier/cheaper to use fiber.
Enterprise adopted 100GbE networking around 2019. You can now buy used network cards for around $100 each.
Probably not where I am, that seems really low. I mean it depends if you use name brand or not. Often I don’t use the name brand ones 🤣
I just checked on eBay, and there are multiple listings for single port 100 GbE Mellanox (now nVidia) Connect-X 4 cards in the $60-100 range.
Most residential fiber globally currently is GPON with a 1-2 Gbps shared line using passive optical splitters, split up to 32 ways. Raising that shared line to 50 Gbps is a great upgrade.
“Chona”
Hahah.
While us taxpayer and ISP consumer is getting fuck all for their taxes and fees
Parasites just looting.
Chinese infrastructure developing is truly impressive. I guess that’s one benefit of being in an imperial dictatorship.
It feels like they are using this presidency to get as far ahead as they can.
Not just this one. But I think you are overestimating such improvements over strategic ones that the US is still doing more. Say, Starlink really turning into some sort of planetary cell network.
They are ostensibly a one party state, not a dictatorship. While Xi is the paramount leader, he claims he isn’t a dictator and I totally believe him. Also it seems like he doesn’t have absolute control, but what do I know.
What do you think would happen if he started doing things the people able to recall him didn’t like?
I think few people missed the sarcasm
They are ostensibly a one party state, not a dictatorship.
This sentence feels so Soviet.
Yeah, hate that the world views him as not a dictator, at least formally, but I don’t make the rules.
Those will be some hot NICs.
Is there a community for that? Asking for a friend.
I’m not, I want to subscribe to this newsletter
Hot NICs in your .local
Meanwhile, Telia in Estonia: “The Estonian customer doesn’t prioritize connection speed or price, that’s why we don’t need to offer competitive speed/price ratios compared to what we have in other European countries”
Seems surprising, especially because Estonia is known for its digitized government. I logically thought that it’d be complemented with decent Internet coverage.
We have roughly the same problem that the US has, where they’ve paid the big ISPs to put fiber everywhere and all that money got pocketed. Well, Estonia’s first few big fiber projects were all through Telia. Telia put down way less fiber than promised and constantly kept saying the lines were already all committed so they couldn’t rent it out to competitors.
This I believe started before we even had Telia here - We had Eesti Telekom, later known as Elion, and then finally it was acquired by Telia. The same company has had a semi-monopolistic status pretty much all the time. Tele2 and Elisa exist, but they’ve never had the sweet ass contracts Telia’s always had.
This is slowly starting to change with the currently ongoing broadband project where you can get an ISP-neutral fiber connection installed for like 99€ or 199€, regardless of how much work it is to get the lines to you, but I’m not sure this is even available if you’ve already got Telia’s monopoly fiber installed. It’s very slow to roll out and every year or 2 they choose a bunch of municipalities with problematic Internet access and then if you live in one of those, you can apply. This has been a godsend, because it got me fiber at home, after years of only being able to get 12/1 mbps through Telia copper.
That’s cool, but all the important stuff doesn’t take much.
Why do I care? Why it need to be so fast?
What is everyone doing with their internet that I’m apparently missing out on?
360 VR experience with 16K resolution, highly textured touchable surfaces, and smell-o-vision. Only a $40 Meta subscription with ads.
Latency is much more critical than bandwidth for any sort of real-time VR.
We’ll solve that with AI. Because you can solve anything by saying “AI”.
What about quantum computing? I don’t want anything without quantum computing.
That goes without saying.
Quantum computing with AI
Decades ago…
“Why do I need electricity? I have candles. Lights seem excessive.”
Yes, but once most people have electricity, new products will be designed to take advantage of it. Now you can have a washing machine, for example.
Broadband is the same. Once most of your population has high bandwidth, we can start to design things that will use it. Right now we’re still designing for DSL speeds.
That’s entirely speculative. There are diminishing returns. Unless you’re going to host your own YouTube, the use case for 50Gbps connections to the home is quite small. 4K video streaming at Ultra HD Blu-ray bitrates doesn’t even come close to saturating 1Gbps, and all streaming services compress 4K video significantly more than what Ultra HD Blu-ray offers. The server side is the limit, not home connections.
Now, if you want to talk about self-hosting stuff and returning the Internet to a more peer-to-peer architecture, then you need IPv6. Having any kind of NAT in the way is not going to work. Connection speed still isn’t that important.
there could be some new thing that no one has not even bothered to think about because of the limitations. Imagine streaming back when downloading few kilobytes for an hours was considered reasonable, people would have laughed at the very thought of it.
Take a look at
devContainersas an idea that might be generalized. It’s just docker containers so so big but not huge however the use case ….devContainersare a complete portable development environment, with support from major IDEs. Let’s say I want to work on a Java service. I open my IDE, it pulls the latest Java devContainer with my environment and all my tools, fetches the latest from git, and I’m ready to go. The problem with this use case is I’m waiting this whole time. I don’t want to sit around for a minute or two every time I want to edit a program. The latest copy needs to be here, now, as I open my IDEMaybe don’t rely on cloud garbage for basic development?
How exactly does NAT prevent that? On good hardware it adds insignificant latency.
It has nothing to do with latency, and everything to do with not being able to directly address things behind NAT.
Unless you’re going to host your own YouTube…
This is exactly what peer tube is struggling with. This bandwidth would solve the video federation problem.
See, you get it!
Except we need IPv6 before that’s at all viable.
We are not even filling out the bandwidth of pipes we have to the home right now. “If you build it, they will come” does not apply when there’s already something there that isn’t being fully utilized.
Oh, maybe. I’m not familiar with bandwidth utilization in China.
Yes but have you considered China bad?
China morally bankrupt and developing at a staggering pace which has somewhat stymied as their scoffing at regulations in favor of backroom dealings is kneecapping themselves.
So if you zoom in close enough, like looking at this amazingly fast reported internet speed and only at this speed, China “good.”
Notice how many extra hoops you jumped through to get here
To arrive at “China Good,” yes you do need to jump through many hoops. Glad we’re on the same page, even if you started out strangely.
Lmao the irony
You have serious ego issues that you will need self reflection to fix.
Feel free to elaborate. I have no idea what you’re talking about other than it seems like tankie screeching to me.
And then he blocked me XD
All these egotistical children with nothing to be proud of
Who blocked you?
So I’m just going to be a completely different person once I have access to these speeds or you are suggesting new tech that will be made available to consumers?
The second one.
Think back to when you were on dial-up. The concept of a streaming movie service would have been a fantasyland. No one was creating one. The infrastructure wasn’t there. It was impossible.
As soon as people started getting broadband, and enough people got it, streaming services could exist.
Are you different? No, you just want to watch a movie. But now you don’t have to go to Blockbuster.
For me, the normal stuff. Mathematically my gig fiber is overkill for my usage. And internet services can rarely keep up with that - you want to download some update or new game? It’s throttled at the source regardless of your internet connection
But in reality when I visit people with “fast enough” internet, I always see glitches and buffering and lag. While it usually serves the need and sometimes gets advertised bandwidth, gig fiber always serves the need. I shouldn’t have to complain about my network or worry about how many streams or how big a download or how many people on their phones. I should never worry about lag during games or interrupted video calls. And I shouldn’t have to worry about sketchy broadband providers (like xFinity/ConCast) way over provisioning their lines or otherwise never delivering marketed bandwidth.
Gig fiber delivers. Always. Like any good infrastructure you don’t even have to think about it: it just always does the job
It’s not fast it’s more of more bandwidth, means more people can be connected from one line. Speed will remain the same.
I would rather have 50,000,000,000bps
Bigger Number = Better
The math is mathing correctly
Git outta here with that thar metric mumbo jumbo!
‘quietly’
Man, real countries are doing this shit while the US is doing an illegal war on the thought crime of being"woke".
China has this covered hands down. If you say Winnie, two mean looking Chinese men appear behind you.
Not just this, I’m not sure if they checked about LGBT rights in China.
From outside the first world Trump and his supporters look scandalist, loud, corrupt and incompetent. Which is sad. But they don’t seem fascist most of the time.
Anyway, if we take Putin, he’s done many things, one thing he’s consistently never done is say antisemitic or easily recognizable fascist things. There is some popularity of Ivan Ilyin around him, who is a Russian emigrant fascist philosopher, though (who apparently wanted to fix problems with Mussolini and the own such “thinkers” of the White movement, except he was on the dumber side, so compared to his writings Mein Kampf seems intellectually elegant).
Even the most evil people can have good moments and we can appreciate those without changing outlet overall opinion.
I’m still waiting for Trump’s good moment
My point was - people may have consistency in words and actions, but not between words and actions.
Yeah, one thing at a time
/s
Horses are fucked in China. They winnie all the time.
Well, at least they’re doing it quietly.
Because everyone there uses the Internet?
Yeah not one soul uses the internet over there, but they’re doing it anyway just to shit on Verizon
I probably shouldn’t have posted it that way. I’ve been to Bejing, but I picture a lot of rural rice farmers just NOT part of the Internet and of course with censorship rampant, I just figure, why so fast? Sounds like flexing. But maybe I’m wrong.
They’re probably not building out 50 Gbps to the rice farmers
Even rice farmers watch Netflix.
There’s a bunch of places in the US that has 10 Gbps speed, so this jump to 50 Gbps is not too shocking. Writing it as 50,000 Mbps to make it seem huge is an interesting take.
It will be in 10 years when a majority of their country has access to it. Industrialization in China is on a different level.
In less than 25 years they will take the top spot for global economy, and likely everything else.
Yep, and in ten years, we’ll still be arguing about whether dsl counts as “broadband”
China will be lucky if they still exist as a single unified nation. Demographics, employment, debt, over built property market, over dependence on manufacturing exports, energy import dependence, food import dependence.
They have a number of very strong headwinds that could very well cause the failure and break up of the CCP in the next twenty years.
the us will be lucky if it exists at all in the future
We’ll be around. We may not be a democracy but we’ll be around.
China though, it’s cooked .
Have you ever stepped food into China? I have. And I can tell you from personal experience they’re living in the future.
They have their own fair share of problems. But the investments they’re making into infrastructure are very easily going to catapult them to the head of the class here very shortly…
I’m really tired of being told how distopian China is from people who’ve never even been there.
Yeah I’ve been there a bunch and this city centers are definitely impressive. There is plenty of dystopian shit though. Obviously the Internet situation is weird, but I’ve been basically told I can’t go up to my hotel room without my Chinese sponsor.
OK
I’m just pretty sure my fiber vendor offers 10Gbps service but I’ve never had reason to check whether they offer it here. There app is not responding so I can’t verify …. They are better at fiber service than maintaining an app.
Personally I think gig fiber is the current sweet spot:
- price has come down a lot
- very low latency
- high reliability
- more than enough for most people
It’s technically overkill for most people but a huge benefit is it works. For everything. Cable tends to be way over-provisioned for plus asymmetrical and higher latency, so you won’t get the bandwidth you pay for, uploads will be slow, and latency may hit you while gaming or streaming. Most of the time cable or slower fiber will be good enough but you will hit glitches, buffering. My gigabit fiber has been rock solid for years, never a glitch, never a buffering, no slow uploads, never impacts gaming. It’s near perfect. I dont mind the extra cost due to the huge savings from dropping cable and phone
It’s so incredibly annoying when people use smaller order of magnitude descriptors simply so they can then write more zeros. A good chunk of the time too it feels like it’s done to distract from a different point or to exaggerate without technically lying.
Doesn’t help that technical jargon is only best used when communicating with someone in that field or understands it. Big number + alphabet soup always seems scary 😞
Worse than that, from the article:
The 50G-PON ITU-T standard supports theoretical speeds of up to 50 Gbps downstream and up to 25 Gbps upstream, though current real-world deployments in China - led by China Telecom, its regional branch Shanghai Telecom, and ZTE - typically provide 10 Gbps all-optical access.
So the 50G number is just theoretical and actual real world speed is only 10G. Due to regulations in the US, advertisements would need to advertise the real speeds. So this is really just the same as 10Gbps anywhere else.
Wait, there are regulations about advertising true speed? Does ComCast know? Does AT&T?
It may be only loosely enforced with fines but there are FTC rules that all online marketing must follow https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/advertising-marketing-internet-rules-road
It does and up helping a little bit. I’m addition to government fines, they also risk class action lawsuits from their customers. I’m willing to bet this is more of a hurdle than China has for state owned companies.
Very cool and they should keep doing this, but no one’s CPE is going to be able to do anywhere near this speed unless they plan on giving everyone large enterprises routers for home use.
