• Mossy Feathers (She/They)@pawb.social
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    5 months ago

    This comment section gonna be spicy~

    Tbh I kinda agree with you, calling someone a murderer or rapist for eating meat is overboard; however the biggest issue I have is the pretentious and self-righteous attitude that vegans have. Like, cool, you don’t eat meat, good for you! I agree that commercially raised farm animals are often abused, and that even animals raised by small, private farms don’t always get to lead their best lives.^1 At the same time though, you’re not making your cause look good.

    Yes, I might honestly be a better person if I stop eating meat, dairy and buying any form of animal product; but I’m also gonna be associated with assholes with overinflated egos. I’m distanced enough from the slaughter that the overinflated ego is more of a turnoff than the slaughtering of animals.

    Is that how it should be? No, but that’s how humans usually work. The object perceived to be closer is a higher priority than the object perceived to be further away. Animal slaughter is perceived as being further away than being associated with assholes, so the fear of being associated with assholes is a greater “threat” than the inhumane treatment of animals.

    Be a vegan if you want, or don’t. You’re honestly probably a better, healthier person if you’re vegan (though you probably have your head up your ass about it), because your diet and spending habits are less likely to contribute to climate change, animal cruelty, and because you have to be conscious about what you eat, your food is likely healthier.

    Just… Don’t be an ass about it, dude.

    Instead of accusing people of being “carnists”, talk about a good (totally-not-vegan) dish you had recently. Instead of accusing people of murder, talk about the pros and cons of real leather vs faux leather.^2 Instead of telling people they’re animal rapists, talk about new sources of cow’s milk.

    I swear I recently read about a technically vegan blue cheese that won and then got disqualified from a cheese competition because the milk it was made from was technically synthetic cow’s milk that had been derived from fungi or something. Talk about that shit. That is pretty fucking cool. Fungus milk that’s virtually identical to cow’s milk? That’s awesome!

    Meat eating and the damage it causes is far off in most people’s rear-view mirrors, and many people don’t know or don’t have time to find ways of getting off the meat highway. They don’t know about alternatives or up-and-coming technologies related to meat substitutes. Being an ass is only going to turn people away; if you really care, then you’ll understand that you have to take people’s hands and take baby steps with them. And no, you can’t get angry when they mess up. You’re helping a baby to walk, if you get angry then they’ll just get angry, demoralized, frustrated with you or themselves, or something else, and you risk them giving up. If you actually care though, then you don’t want them to give up, and that means you have to grit your teeth and bear it when they complain about how something sucks or admit they have a “guilty pleasure” like dairy ice cream.


    Some additional notes:

    ^1 imo meat should only be harvested from animals that have died from age-related causes. “But the meat will be too tough!” Yeah? Hispanic people figured out how to deal with that a long time ago. Make fajitas! I still eat meat anyway though, despite knowing they’re slaughtered and don’t die of old age.

    ^2 when it comes to leather, my experience is that natural leather lasts a lot longer than faux leather, and faux leather tends to use plastics. Additionally, I’ve heard that while “leather is a byproduct of the meat industry” is mostly a myth, it’s my understanding that there are “ethical” ways of getting leather, e.g. by taking cast-offs that’d normally be trashed, leather harvested from animals that have died from old age; you just have to be very conscious about where you’re buying leather from. I’d be curious if anyone knows about any non-petroleum-based faux or lab-grown leathers. I mean, it’s literally just skin, how hard can it really be to grow that in a lab?

    • Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org
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      5 months ago

      I love being an annoying vegan because it was annoying vegans who made me go vegan. I was once like you, I knew the animal ag industry was fucked, but I still liked eating meat and dairy. Then eventually the cognitive dissonance caught up to me and I realised that enjoying meat and dairy wasn’t a good enough excuse to support a cruel industry that is quite literally destroying the planet.

      At least you’re not in denial about what you’re supporting and you’re not spreading misinformation. I’m chill with that, but I think you’re wrong about what’s effective at converting people to veganism.

      PS: people make pineapple and cactus leathers nowadays, I’ve heard of a mushroom based one, too. Not sure on how the durability and longevity compares just yet but it seems pretty tough so far. Also not sure on the processes involved and how ‘clean’ they are.

  • SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Most meat alternatives like impossible burgers are bullshit.

    Ultra processed shit food.

    There’s a lot of good vegan food that doesn’t pretend to be burgers, ribs or anything else besides what is it.

    Plus who fucks an animal before you eat it?

    • cm0002@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Yea, but they also hate the lab grown stuff that’s being worked on which is so close to the real thing without all the killing and cruelty and stuff

      • iiGxC@slrpnk.net
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        5 months ago

        Beyond burgers are literally right there lmao. You don’t need lab grown meat to stop supporting animal abuse, it’s a thinly veiled excuse to avoid having to change and grow as a person

    • Forester@yiffit.netOP
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      5 months ago

      If you’re looking for context, this is a shit post about my recent interactions with a certain community of vegans

    • flamingos-cant@feddit.uk
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      5 months ago

      Mammals need to be pregnant to produce milk, so to get cow milk you have to impregnate a cow. That’s what they mean by rapist.

      • Forester@yiffit.netOP
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        5 months ago

        They only need to be pregnant once. The calf milk is different than normal milk and can not be sold. The stuff we drink is what happens after a calf is born but you never stop milking so the cow stays productive. I think you need to revisit mamal biology. Once the process of Milk production is started milk will be produced in most mammals till the long term cessation of mamary tisssue stimulation.

  • olutukko@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    but… they do fund the meat alternatives. thry literally pay money for that shit? I guess thst’s ehy it’s a shitpost

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      They’re overpaying for them. Which then makes companies calculate “we could sell a lot of product at small profit margins to the general vegetarian and flexi public” vs. “we could not invest in production capacity and charge affluent urban vegans and arm and a leg” and guess what they’re going for.

      The reason why there’s tons of almond etc. milks costing 3-4 times as much per litre as actual milk is not because of subsidies. It’s because vegans are stupid enough to buy 20 cents of ingredients for that price.

  • yesman@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    This is ironic because the argument concedes vegan ideology, it’s just attacks them for not doing more. At this point the carnists are not really arguing, they’re negotiating terms of surrender.

    Most meat consumers already suspect vegans are right. We get aggravated because we’d rather ignore that question. And a vegan threatens to force the issue, even in our own mind. If you’ve ever wondered why vegans inspire automatic hostility, ridicule, and derision it’s because they threaten a carnists identity as a good person just by existing.

    • Clent@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Nope. Vegans are fine. Veganist like you are religious nut jobs. You’ve created narratives and then act like anyone who doesn’t agree with you is the bad guy. Not unlike the far right or any other extremist group.

      That feeling of your existence being a threat is the same feeling any other authoritarian feels.

      • wafflez@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Vegans are abstaning, you are acting. Supporting animal agriculture makes you the aggressor. The animals are the victims.

      • yesman@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        anyone who doesn’t agree with you is the bad guy.

        You seem a little defensive. Threatened even.

        • Clent@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          I’m sure you perceive it that way, as you already said you perceive being a threat. You appear to take pride in it.

          Couldn’t be less threatened by you. Your abstinence reduces price competition for meat products. You are restricting yourself such that it benefits me.

          The real threat in this regard are the boomers who eat more meat products than other generations.

          I feel I should donate a quarter head of beef to a local food pantry in your name as tribute and to show there are no ill feelings. At least from me. I doubt you feel the same towards me.

    • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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      5 months ago

      It worked on me. I went vegan because I was ashamed of eating meat. If you’re not a vegan then I don’t think you have any perspective on what’s effective at getting people to go vegan.

      • Forester@yiffit.netOP
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        5 months ago

        so if i and enough other people think your a fool and deride you long enough because you got peer pressured and bullied into making your dietary decisions youll switch back to eating meat ?

  • HexesofVexes@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    The best thing for a vegan to do is to keep being a vegan. Seriously, just keep on doing it.

    It doesn’t mean evangelise, it doesn’t mean denigrate, it means just carry on doing what works for you.

    If you’re insulting other folks, or trying to push a lifestyle, odds are folks don’t dislike you because you’re vegan.