Similar vibes than Reddit api pricing
stop buying tesla, stop supporting spacex, and stop buying starlink
And stop using Xitter.
…Ok, now what? Is evil defeated yet?
if boycotts didn’t work they wouldn’t try to criminalise them
Because criminalizing having a different political view definitely sustains democracy.
Free speech for me but not for thee, vibes.
^^ this. In America the only vote that really matters is the one you do with your wallet.
But what launch provider should I use then?
Boeing? No, I don’t think so.
don’t use any. space programs are wholly unnecessary
GPS is terrible and I hate being able to find places
I agree that manned space programs are unnecessary and unmanned should be very limited. Starlink shouldn’t have been allowed. Unfortunately the US government let telecoms off the hook when it came to serving rural areas.
You don’t like GNSS?
Also space programs have been the source of a lot of world changing inventions.
because spending money on space exploration when people are homeless and hungry is wrong
Are you 12?
Are you? stfu or go invent a microwave that prevents neoliberal mayors and govenors (at least in the US’s system) from sicking cops on their own constituents while giving the real estate contracts to their buddies who are only interested in building McMansions. 🤡
SpaceX will be the only game in town once the new administration eviscerates nasa
I would have no other alternative for internet access unfortunately
You could live like the first 2020 years of our timeline.
I don’t understand your sentence can you rephrase ?
If you’re on a boat… fair enough.
Otherwise, look into WISPs… Wireless Internet Service Providers. Great for rural areas, the infrastructure is point-to-point radios, so it’s super easy to go large distances without the cost of fiber or copper cables.
Best part is, if you have any neighbors that are interested, they’ll often give you a discount if you let them put a sector antenna on your barn/silo. Or they can also erect a short tower if you let them too.
If there aren’t any in your immediate area, reach out to ones nearby. They’re always looking to expand.
Thanks I’ll look into that, never heard of it. I’m on an island
If it were that simple, and they were comparable/better than starlink, they’d be a lot more prominent than they are, no? You’re leaving out information.
It really is that simple. I wouldn’t chose it over wired, but it’s still pretty good. You’re going to beat the latency of satellites every time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Internet_service_provider
Starlink is the only decent satellite internet provider
If you’re on a boat… fair enough.
Otherwise, look into WISPs… Wireless Internet Service Providers. Great for rural areas, the infrastructure is point-to-point radios, so it’s super easy to go large distances without the cost of fiber or copper cables.
Best part is, if you have any neighbors that are interested, they’ll often give you a discount if you let them put a sector antenna on your barn/silo. Or they can also erect a short tower if you let them too.
If there aren’t any in your immediate area, reach out to ones nearby. They’re always looking to expand.
I’m surprised devs didn’t see the writing on the wall after Twitter all but murdered its API
Wasn’t that still Dorsey twitter though?
I could swear it was too, but I double checked before the comment.
Elon closed the deal on Oct 28, 2022 according to Wikipedia, and the first API woes I remember was the killing of third-party clients, which happened in Jan 19, 2023
Fuck Elon. Fuck Tesla.
I was their target demographic amd Elon made sure that I never even consider their trash. I went BMW instead.
This is why Elonia is asking trump to impose tariffs on Canada and Mexico. Other car manufacturers started biting into Tesla market share this year.
He want to add tarrifs and he is also asking Trump to remove government subsidies on new EV purchases, raising the barrier to entry in the US for EVs
There’s no way he’s asking for that. If you can find a source for that claim I’d love to see it. But it’s about the dumbest thing musk could do.
Wow… Well I maintain that is about the dumbest thing he could do, but I apologize for doubting you.
It’s a good way to make money by shorting his competitors’ stocks.
Poor Queen Elonia.
BMW lobbies against non-car based infrastructure and car industry regulation here in Germany. Biggest shareholder is the Quandt family, who are descendant from literal Nazis, and now use part of their billions to fund the conservatives (at least they aren’t giving it to the far-right. Yet.)
So yeah, fuck Elon, but fuck BMW too.
Yeah fine me a car company that’s not like that. Living in the US it’s a necessity to have a car so just gonna nix that argument. I bought a Toyota to get ultimate reliability (yes Honda is basically equal) but I’m sure they both have done equally terrible shit. And when I’m not in grad school I want to go back to a BMW because they are great cars to drive. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism so just try to enjoy your life where you can.
On the one hand, sure. On the other hand, if you’re saying you bought from brand A, not B, specifically because the big boss of B is a shithead, I feel like it’s valid to point out the ways the big boss of A is shit too.
Since everyone is shit, I dunno, buy used, I guess.
“Theres no ethical consumption under capitalism, so what do you expect me to drive a used car like a PEASANT? If i cant consume 100% ethically ill just consume however i want, and i want a fancy german treat car so just shut up okay”
It’s good information and something I will take into account for next time.
never owned a BMW, or a Tesla for that matter, but I’ve heard they’re just as bad when it comes to being money hungry
That is correct, but at least BMW knows how to make decent cars that won’t trap you in in an emergency.
A friend bought a new BMW. Everything is controlled with an app. There’s also an interface in the car itself, obviously, but the app has more functions.
Things like seat heating, air conditioner, enhanced cruise control and all the fancy things are only available if you subscribe to one of the three offerings.
I just glanced over the app, so i don’t remember the names, but it went like the usual: basic, premium, platinum.
Prices were in the range of 200, 400, 700 euros a fucking month.
Are you saying that you can’t use the A/C without subscribing to their app?
I think they are very mistaken about the options requiring a subscription and their price. Most of the options you could get a subscription for also are available as a one time purchase… the same way they were in the past. Heating and air conditioning aren’t among those options, they come standard in every car.
BMW did drop the subscription for heated seats after backlash. That one was stupid. The other options I’m a little torn on. There are costs associated with developing the software used for most of the options like driving assistance. I have no problem paying for that development, and the subscription lets me try it for a month to see if it’s worth it. As long as there is the ability to outright buy the option instead of locking into a perpetual subscription I’m chill with it. I also hope that once unlocked, the option is still available when resold. This part I’m not so sure about, but mine seemed to maintain the options purchased by the original owner.
It’s not a super recent article, but a list of options and pricing is available at the bottom of this page: https://www.kbb.com/car-news/bmw-quietly-launches-in-car-subscriptions-in-u-s/
I only had the chance to peek and after reading your comment, it sounds very plausible that general heating is a basic function. I’m sure i saw the seat-heating, in the lowest price subscription though. It must have been before they dropped the subscription for it. The paid air conditioning included air purifing with hepa and carbon filters and some iirc Plasmacluster Ion technology.
I should have been a little more specific …
Even by not subscribing to the paid subscriptions he said he had to subscribe to the basic subscription, which enables the app.
It looked like they will also drop a random paid feature into the basic for a limited time, every few weeks another feature, so people get to test it. That’s what the ad in the app suggested.
I didn’t think about the one time purchase to be honest. I assume it to be featured in a submenu, to make it less prominent than the subscription, in order to get a bigger number of subscribers.
Yeah choosing BMW is a strange choice against something like Tesla when they are doing the same sort of thing. I won’t criticize the “I’m rich so I bought an expensive car” thing, that can happen elsewhere, but the idea that BMW is the lesser of the evils isn’t really accurate.
I wish we were in a world where we could more easily avenge our terrible upbringing in this system moment after moment like Geralt, where if we’re to choose between the lesser of two evils, we’d rather not choose at all.
There is no such thing as a benevolent corporation. Don’t feed the fascists. Don’t give your money to Elon.
EDIT: Autocorrect derp
I mean, fuck Elon and Tesla but if you’re spending money on a car you’re giving it to a bastard one way or another. The CEOs of Ford, BMW, et. al. might not be making asses of themselves on the global stage, but I’m sure they’re still horrible. Even used cars run on gas 99% of the time.
There are levels of bad. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good (or in this case, only slightly better).
BMW does have shady monetization tactics with their newer car, but Subaru shred almost every other car brands to dust
Are Subaru cars still loud AF? I had a 2002 Impreza, and a 2012 and both had lots of road noise with everything in the car popping or cracking with every bump.
Of course, and that’s part of the charm. They bag out like a pair of leather slippers. I read something recently about them using a shit ton more adhesive in the new Forester so maybe it’s improving? My 2015 isn’t that bad, but I hate driving in general so basic appliance standards is fine by me.
Okay that’s not just me, thank god. I thought something was just wrong with the sound deadening on my Forester, especially because my 30 year old Mazda 323 is at least 50% quieter. Nope, its what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.
Did u have to unlearn how to use an indicator?
Isnt that a mandatory class before they let u buy one?
You know I haven’t been to a dealership yet to find out.
That BMW iDrive looks good but if it’s all app and touchscreen based… Imma skip.
TBH though, all the damn nice EVs are touch screens or bubble crossovers.
Why the fuck do I want to drive a bubble. I want to drive an electric car. Take the Ford Mustang, put the electric parts in it, and don’t turn it into a crossover. Take the Toyota 86, put electric parts in it. Do not turn it into a cross over.
Idk take any fucking car that looks like a fun car and goddamn it, put electric parts in it, don’t add touchscreens, and don’t stick your lips on the wand of soap and blow into the frame making it a goddamn bubble crossover.
Ioniq 6.
Because it’s not that easy. Batteries are big, people want 250+ miles on a charge and battery tech isn’t there for standard sedans and smaller.
I just went through this and ended up with the mach-e (which I’m very happy with) but it still weighs about as much as my minivan (almost 5000lbs).
All EVs are nearly 5000lbs. The xDrive i4 I mentioned is 5063lbs
But the interior DOES have buttons so it’s back on my like list.
There was something about the i4 I just didn’t like. I think it was how it felt kind of like an m3 to me. In the sense that if all you care about is going fast, then it’s a great car, but it’s not the luxury of the 5 or 7 series, which is what I think of when I think of BMW.
I’m too old for a car like that, and don’t drive enough to justify the i5 price, so I went economical (in comparison at least) with the mach-e. It’s fun to drive, has enough gitty-up-and-go for me, and it’s comfortable.
Though I got reeeeeeally close to saying fuck it and getting the i5.
I’m waiting for the price on used i5s to drop a bit before I trade my car in for one. Since they’re only a year old, they’re still super pricy. i4 is a bit small for me if I have people in the back.
The 530e is pretty perfect for me in the meantime. Only 20 mile range on full electric, but that works pretty perfectly for me since I can charge at home and at work. On longer trips I can still burn dinosaurs, but I only fill the tank up a few times per year. I think I’ve put gas in it 6 times this year, and that includes a couple ~3 hour trips.
I’ve thought about Tesla, but there’s so much I don’t like about them.
I’ve got a RAV4 that will last quite a while if I need space. In 6-12 months, hopefully after I buy I home, I’m going to need a car that says “single software engineer dad with midlife crisis money” and my boy loves the interior of the i4 coupe.
I’ll look at the i5 though
I went Audi but to be completely honest Hyundai and Kia make the best EVs.
I just got the Ford Mach-e last weekend and I’m super happy with it.
Yeah, I like the Mach-e a lot too. I think it maxes out at 150 kW of charging speed, which is the same as my Audi. But the Hyundai does 240 kW and that’s super speedy!
I needed a single payment lease and BMW does those with zero hassle.
How is it driving without turn signals? Granted, given they put them as buttons on the friggin steering wheel in the new Teslas, maybe not much different?
I am sad to say that the old joke is becoming obsolete. These new cars are smart. If you try to change lanes without a turn signal, the car beeps loudly to tell you that you have drifted. Our company also has a Sprinter van that will actually pull you back into your lane. Sad times.
Its Tesla; y’all should be dumping that shit anyway.
rent seeking strikes back
Similar vibes than Reddit api pricing
Reddit got the idea from Elon’s twitter API fees. This is Elon being consistent(ly terrible).
Reminds me of the Fall Out Boy song “Dead on Arrival”.
Or, one of the original punk bands, DOA
Or the old saying “Dead on Arrival”
When Twitter (and Reddit) pulled this off, I was just mildly pissed. Can’t do interesting things with my data, oh no.
…Image that, except it’s an expensive luxury car you’re no longer allowed to do interesting things with.
Something to note: Tesla has two vehicle APIs, the Fleet API for commercial accounts and the Owner API for individuals. This change currently only impacts the Fleet API.
If you are an individual owner who accesses your vehicle data from the Owner API (usually via a self hosted tool like TeslaMate), this does not affect you. Yet.
I’m not a developer, so excuse me if this is a dumb question. Is the API supplying data that is provided by the OBDII interface? Or is it more than that?
There is most likely an overlap on what you can get from the OBD port, but generally speaking the API will provide more high level info e.g driving status, mileage, live location - and the OBD port will provide more low level data e.g. detailed battery stats from the BMS, energy usage, etc.
I see. Thanks.
Hey kid, don’t waste your breath defending corporations. You will end up being wrong in the end, and before that you just look like a fool.
Highlight where in the above post I am defending anything.
Isn’t it tacitly defending this pricing model?
I’ve worked in commercial environments where we’ve had the rug pulled on us in exactly this manner.
Sure today Tesla isn’t charging you, but the moment it is expedient for them, they will.
A lot of users here will have had the same experience with Reddit – it’s not unprecedented.
Not at all.
Lemmy is overwhelmingly militantly anti-Tesla, which is understandable considering who owns it, but it does mean that users tend to interpret any neutral or factual statements (basically anything that is not outright criticism) as having a pro-Tesla bias.
In this case, all I am stating is the fact that this specific change currently only affects corporate users. That could of course change in the future.
There is a rich history of cloud based data providers pulling the rug from under users with no warning. Look at what happened to Nest users when Google took over.
Providing and clarifying information isn’t automatically defending something.
There goes TeslaFi… fuck. I use that all the time to see my global map and keep track of my stats (like power usage on long drives), and auto enabling of certain features at certain times, like heat/ac after work.
These changes only affect the Fleet API. TeslaFi is fine for now.
Si musk pulled a Reddit spez?
Not surprising as musk is a scammer who got incredibly lucky, always has been.
Fuck spez and fuck musk
It’s only going to get worse year over year as we move towards a dystopian corporation ran future.
The U.S. leading the pack on testing how much a rich person can get away with while directly interfering with a d profiting from the government, which is funded by the people.
It’s just another grift, but this time in the open, corporate sponsored politicians being elected as presidents is going to become the norm. The only thing it takes is money to influence an undereducated populace.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
Or until the populace gets smarter.
No sign of that happening yet, especially with the results of a certain election in a certain country.
The only thing it takes is money to influence an undereducated populace.
We got the government the average person deserves…
Didn’t they already do this with Xitter?
Yes the blue bird website did it first iirc
deleted by creator
No, the api changes were musk not dorsey
.
Greed twists all minds.
There’s no laws against profiteering?
Tesla is an American company, in Texas, at that.
It wouldn’t matter if there were.
I hate subscription services. And I hate money-grubbing corps. Especially when they try to profit off of your own data.
That said, this is not that as infeasible as it sounds. The dev for Tessie reportedly has 400k users. That’s roughly $12.50/month per user. Modestly speaking, if the dev charged their users $13/mo, he’d profit $2.4 million per year. For $15/mo, he would profit $12 million per year.
That’s probably what Tesla is hoping their devs would do. And I’m sure a lot of Tesla owners could afford the fee.
Selling literal shit at a restaurant also isn’t unfeasible if the customer doesn’t care about eating shit. But nobody is going to eat shit and nobody (normal) is going to pay $10+ a month to get mostly gimmick features. At a glance there’s barely anything useful in the API.
You’re ignoring transaction costs.
Also $15/month is batshit insane.
Yes, I didn’t account for the transaction fees. But I believe my point still stands. If people find enough value in it, they’d probably pay for it; and that’s why Tesla is charging what they are.
I do agree with you about it being batshit crazy. If it were me, I sure as hell wouldn’t want to pay $15/mo for that. But I try to be a cheapskate where I can.
value in it, they’d probably pay for it; and that’s why Tesla is charging what they are.
Tesla is charging what they’re charging to eliminate competition, but still say they’re an open platform for anyone.
I would imagine most of those 400k users wouldn’t pay that much either.
We can probably look at the reddit paid API change as a real world approximation of free to paid conversions versus users just dropping usage. Not reddit usage overall, but a third party app that stayed and needed to start charging users because of the paid API. Not sure if there are any apps that stuck around and released that sort of information to reference.
Did any stick around? I thought they all folded.
Relay for Reddit (Android) is still going it seems.
You’ve accounted only for the API pricing. They already charge 7-20 USD per month. So their prices are going to jump to 19.50-32.50 USD a month.
That’s not feasible.
well that’s some solid bootlicking lol
how much does it cost tesla to provide API access? or we don’t discuss their costs structure and profit margin? we only do that for the guy doing the actual work lol
Not sure which side of the argument you’re taking. But, to answer your questions…
how much does it cost tesla to provide API access?
Not as much as they would want you to believe. Most APIs are written once, and only updated if a major change in the backend happens. The majority of any operating costs would go into cloud services, if the telemetry from the car is sent to Tesla first. I don’t own a Tesla, so I don’t know for sure. I would imagine it’s, because that would allow Tesla better metrics on app usage.
or we don’t discuss their costs structure and profit margin?
Whose? Tesla or the app developers? I’m not against a business making a profit. It’s kind of the point. They provide some sort of service, and as a customer we pay some sort of fee. The problem as I see it, some companies (like Twitter, Reddit, and Tesla for example) are not balancing the age-old “supply and demand” model of economics. Of course that’s my opinion.
we only do that for the guy doing the actual work
Huh? Please explain.
lol
I don’t get it. Why do people end their otherwise non-funny statements with “lol”?
Tesla tubby is price gouging.
You came. Explaining how this price is fine since the app dev can make some money based on some basic math while not doing the same for telsa tubby.
Why this bias? How much money is telsa making per head, what is their cost structure? Should you have discussed this if we gonna justify this price gouging trick?
“Lol” here is sarcasm btw
Ps. Since they are data mining you already, could at least fucking provide api access for free which was the model pre covid mostly.
Now these parasites are data mining you and want you to pay for it 🤡
At least people are taking notice but I doubt this corpo trash will revert unless end user starts punish their profits.
And then there’s 20 apps at $15/month each which collectively costs like $2 to run
Per user costs for a website is on the number of pennies a month and most of that is for electricity.
I can plug in a $750 second-hand server with a xeon processor, 40 TB of storage and 128gb of ram and easily serve all of the needs of several thousand users on essentially any website type for $1.50 a day.
Sure, if you throw in video and a lot of bandwidth then the number would go up, but for pictures and text and website interaction on the par of bluesky or twitter or mbin sans hosted video it would work very well.
If I reached the point where I needed to expand for the raw processing I can just throw another $1,000 and $45/month in electricity at it and double how much I can handle.
Computers are stupid cheap. Internet services are stupid cheap. Asking for more than a dollar a person per month for anything that doesn’t have licensing fees on it (like tv/movies) or very high bandwidth usage (like YouTube) is a greedy rip off.
That being said, at those prices I would not make anything for running the service, and that also would not cover additional development costs for any new features that needed to be added, but even so, unless your goal is to disenfranchise users you should not charge more than a buck a month or hell, $10 a year per person for all of their access to your service.
What’s the data? The article says the app was fleet management? So location and remote opening doors or something?
You can do basically everything you can do from teslas own app, but automated and even a little more. For example I use it to automatically control charging power to match the surplus of my solar panels, that keeps my grid-use for my car to 0kWh for roughly 5 months of the year. And I can set the charging power lower than I can in the Tesla app (app is 5A minimum, API goes to 0A), which is convenient for the solar charging.
And of course you can pull battery data, odometer etc. with it as well.
I use an app called Tessie. It’s $5 a month for the rest of my life but i do like it . Keeps track of battery usage, trips, and links to Alexa.
Gotcha - I guess I’m still not following though. Twitter and Reddit upped API fees because the data could be used to train LLMs.
Obviously if you had access to everyone’s driving/Tesla data - that’d be valuable - but I am assuming the API data is only for the owners using these the apps like you mentioned.
Is the data available across all users or are they prepping to release some kind of anonymized user data?
I can’t eee how blocking API use helps train LLMs.
Even if the users has a 3rd party app, it’s still making the API calls, so whatever data is already on the server side.
I think you might be misinterpreting me.
Why Alexa?
Other than that, a $1 notepad and a pencil will do usage tracking just fine for years. You can’t take a trip unless you’re already sitting in the car where you can see and write down the info.
I’ve decided that we were just fine without the internet, please send your comment to me via written correspondence, since you have your notepad ready anyway.
The internet allows us to communicate quickly over distances we couldn’t otherwise without a long time between messages. What does this app do that I can’t do cheaper and easier with pencil and paper?
I’m not opposed to technology, but I’m not paying for it if there’s no benefit.
But it does it both easier and better than pen/paper because it does it automatically without them needing to even think about it. And it’s already available electronically so they can graph it and run statistics on their usage and trips…you know, actually use the data for something purposeful.
With pen/paper they just have a sheet they can’t do anything with. They now have to manually enter all this data to use it for anything, which is a lot on unnecessary manual effort.
Ok.
On my phone, I can use Google sheets (or excel or whatever) and get all the benefits, except for the automatic recording. For $5/mo in perpetuity?
I’m not anti app. I don’t understand why someone would pay this much for this function.
If you want all the metrics that it logs automatically, you’re going to be spending 20min every time you drive anywhere logging everything manually. And then you’re still not getting the continuous logging during drives. Plus you still need to do all the data processing yourself on top of that.
I get why some people pay for these things.
