They’re a convenient political target because it makes insecure men not want to be associated with them. Believe it or not, a similar thing happened last time Republicans won the popular vote in 2004 - back then the issue was gay marriage. Bush went hard on opposing that and it helped him win.
Because fascists need a ~scary other~ to scapegoat to erode everyone’s rights.
As someone who grew up in a conservative household in a deep red state, I think that part of it is that a lot of people are letting Lizard Brain dictate their response to transgender people.
Let me give you a personal example. A while back, I went to a social dance, and there was a trans woman there. Before the dance starts proper, the couple that runs it will teach a dance lesson, and we rotate partners while that’s going on. Eventually, I was rotated into being her partner. For some background, she was obviously early on in her transition; she still looked like a dude in a dress, she didn’t quite have the appearance down yet. But she gets huge props for not only having the bravery to go out as herself, but doing it in fucking Arkansas.
So I rotate over to her, and it dawns on me that she’s trans. In my head, Lizard Brain immediately starts screaming. “WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?! THIS PERSON IS OBVIOUSLY A DUDE IN A DRESS, HE MUST BE UP TO SOMETHING IF HE’S DRESSING AS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HE IS! RABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE”
Keep in mind, where I grew up, you just didn’t see trans people, and even now, it still tickles that primal part of my brain that was trained to be uncomfortable around people who aren’t white and straight.
The difference between me and many of the people I grew up around is that I recognize that it’s happening and try to tone Lizard Brain out when it starts screaming. A lot of other people listen to it and don’t care that the person that it’s screaming about is exactly that: a person.
I remember reading that when people have racist reactions like what you’re describing it’s like a different part of their brain triggers and then their frontal lobe (for higher logic) sort of suppresses it. I really wish I could remember more about this but I definitely remember learning about this in psychology. Something like when a baby sees someone of a skin color they haven’t seen before they get nervous, but when they’re older different parts shut it down. The memory is very fuzzy.
A brave, vulnerably nuanced answer. Suspicious… what are you planning?
What happened next? How was the dance? Don’t leave us hanging!
Excellently said!
The only thing I have an issue with, and it’s a small issue at that, is:
Keep in mind, where I grew up, you just didn’t see trans people,
You most assuredly did see them. You just didn’t realize it because they were forced to hide who they really were.
This is so real. It takes a LOT of effort and time to train this out. If someone isn’t willing to go through that then it makes sense that it would fester.
I had lots of times when i was younger learning about queer culture when i got mad at things. Especially after an overly polite and patient person took the time and effort to explain something to me. Unlearning hate is painful. Learning to liberate yourself is painful.
I think a lot of people feel that pain and decide to run from it and double down on the hate because that way they don’t need to learn and change or pry open their mind to an alternative.
Then there’s the whole fear of conflicting with your own community as a factor.
Would you mind sharing what that person explained to you?
Many conversations with many different people. I can’t recall as this was mostly a decade ago, before it all clicked for me that humans are diverse and nuanced and it’s fine. My guess would be pronouns and wide net incel stuff. Not that i was particularly bad but deprogramming a Catholic suburban upbringing in american masculinity culture and propaganda is a monumental feat.
I think the fact that i was willing to listen, think critically, and engage in self doubt is what invited the conversations. Still, they were being very charitable with their energy and time.
I’m really grateful for that, especially after recognizing in not as cishet as i thought i was.
I only know of one, and she’s an expert at everything related to fiber channel and tape drives. So I guess it might be that US conservatives are ideologically opposed to cheap long term offline storage.
Trans people give conservatives feelings in their pants and scare and confuse them. They lash out in fear, hatred, and self-loathing.
Because people don’t shut up about it.
A lot of conservatives want to simplify life because they have a simple mind.
Most conservatives I know think it’s dangerous to entertain trans ideas in children. They say kids don’t know what gender really means because they haven’t experienced puberty yet but the most effective time to use hormone blockers is before puberty. So they feel like it’s the parents who are encouraging use of hormone therapy for their kids because the parents are brainwashed by left media, and essentially committing child abuse.
To them I say:
- If I’m old enough to be disfigured by puberty, I’m old enough for HRT.
- A trans child is a blessing, deserving of the choice to avoid a puberty they are telling you they do not want.
Except for the fact that puberty is an actual thing that occurs without outside influence. HRT isn’t
That’s like saying an epileptic person should go without life-saving seizure supression medication
HRT is no different than any other medical intervention that allows a person to have a better quality of life by influencing the already existing systems of hormones and neurotransmitters for the given conditions/issues/wellbeing.
What’s more, in the event that the human being making the choice with their doctor to use hormone blockers changes their mind, puberty resumes AND compensates such that the overall outcome is near-entirely unchanged compared to if had they not used blockers. (And are much less likely to self-harm or take their own life overall)
The misinformation about trans kids and puberty is honestly audacious, such that anyone who actually cares about Trans People’s safety, well being and happiness would recognize such if they so much as scratch at the surface of current medical knowledge.
Trans people are not your science experiment.
One’s medical choices are noone’s business but that human being and their doctor. Parental ownership over children is quite a flawed institution when many parents are absentee, and that’s before you figure in the lack of educaction about, misinformation about, and outright internalized bigotry for trans people – which many parents fail their children by not confronting, unpacking…but instead making the problem of the small human being who has no legal standing in our rancidly unjust systems. This society believes itself more civilized than barbarians or cro-magnons or marauding vikings or australopithecus…which only multiplies it’s viscous indifferent violent tendencies.
That’s like saying an epileptic person should go without life-saving seizure suppression medication
Google false equivalency. 1.2% of people experience epilepsy. 100% of people experience puberty. Epilepsy requires intervention BECAUSE it isn’t normal. So my argument still tracks.
Also, just because someone doesn’t like an experience doesn’t necessarily mean that it should not occur. People don’t like getting their wisdom teeth removed but it’s a process that must take place. And this is especially true with life changing decisions like HRT. Putting a decision so monumental into the hands of an individual still trying to figure out what career path they would like to take is borderline insane.
Also, I’m going to need some sources on the effects of HRT being easily reversed after treatment stops, because there is a point at which this procedure becomes somewhat permanent. Take for example the case of Chloe Cole who I’m pretty sure you’ve heard of.
“Normal”
Okay nazi. Ez block.
this thread has been really great for bringing them out of the woodwork to block!
“If God had wanted you to regulate your glucose levels he wouldn’t have given you type 1 diabetes. Now give me your goddam insulin!”
As others have said, one did shoot up a school (and the MSM hid the manifesto & details forever). As your comment proves, they found out the shooter was trans & they tried to memory-hole that real hard. But that’s besides the point; evil & depraved people will be evil & depraved people. Doesn’t matter, trans or not.
Main conservative talking points against trans people: They do not produce children, trans people are categorized as having a mental illness that should be treated instead of chopping off body parts, they really don’t like when health insurance money and/or tax dollars pay for elective surgery & treatments, fully transitioned people have their genitals mutilated & they’ll never experience an orgasm, once they’re chopped up a not insignificant number of trans people experience regret (permanent consequences for acting on temporary feelings), and trans people are more likely than the general population to have depression & commit suicide.
With well-intentioned conservatives, it’s actually coming from place of care & compassion. They don’t want people to hurt themselves, deprive them of families & fullness of sexuality, or see them despair post-op & kill themselves.
Idk why OP feels it neccesary to conflate trans people with school shooters.
Three components im enthusiastic to educate about on that note:
And 2) Shooters have been overwhelmingly men, overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly boys-and-men. A majority of manifestos have direct mention of Right-wing extremism, oft inspired by the Turner Diaries and the like.
- What causes violent crime in society, and are there existing societies we can look to?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/jp3q4p/comment/gbesw1p/
the short version is that it starts in the home.
Much violent crime can be traced back to cultural factors. Violent crime, such as murder, would probably decrease dramatically in an anarchist society because most of its causes — poverty, televised glorification of violence, prisons and police, warfare, sexism, and the normalization of individualistic and anti-social behaviors — would disappear or decrease.
The differences between two Zapotec communities illustrates that peace is a choice. The Zapotec are a sedentary agrarian indigenous nation living on land that is now claimed by the state of Mexico. One Zapotec community, La Paz, has a yearly homicide rate of 3.4/100,000. A neighboring Zapotec community has the much higher homicide rate of 18.1/100,000. What social attributes go along with the more peaceful way of life? Unlike their more violent neighbors, the La Paz Zapotec do not beat children; accordingly, children see less violence and use less violence in their play. Similarly, wife-beating is rare and not considered acceptable; women are considered equal to men, and enjoy an autonomous economic activity that is important to the life of the community so they are not dependent on men. Regarding child-rearing, the implications of this particular comparison are corroborated by at least one cross-cultural study on socialization, which found that warm, affectionate socialization techniques correlate with low levels of conflict in society.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
As for the re-emergence of hierarchies, I think that the notion of anarchism is essentially ‘checks and balances’ turned up to 11. You get to a society that’s an ecosystem of fluid social relationships, and an anti-authoritarian culture which makes it impossible in a million ways for anyone to accumulate power. If we could get there, I think it would be more robust than current liberal democracy, where the branches of government can cooperate and you need buy-in from less people to enable power to be accumulated.
IMO, good anarchist praxis is to 1) encourage and popularize anti-authoritarian parenting methods and 2) build strong community groups and mutual aid networks.
I concur with this analysis and conclusion.
Chopped off, mutilated, never enjoy life again.
Lmao tell me you’re a bigot who’s never met a trans person, without saying so.
Thats not how any of this works.
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Surgery is almost always for adults, does not work by “chopping” anything. It is a delicate and complex medical and surgical procedure. (You’re fine with the mutilation of intersex infants genitals and the mutilation that is circumcision being forced on infants, tho, I bet, as your Daddy says that’s ok, huh?)
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Quite the opposite from never enjoying carnal-consensual-interactions again, I and many of my trans cousins are simply listening to our bodies tell us that it needs to change to properly experience it. For most, it takes the form of revulsion-from-the-incongruence of having been born with parts that make them want to dissociate.
BEING A TRANS PERSON IS NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS
This is such victim blaming. It is impossible to go through a world that seems like it wants to drink your blood, just because of your intrinsic traits – without accruing trauma.
Trauma and being open about it is not “mental illness”. In fact, it’s the only way to heal from that externally-caused burden.
I guarantee you’re not an expert on the well being of the meeting of the mind and the brain, or “mental illness” to take the thinking of ableist, nazi-originated, antiquated past-medical-thought.
And you’re certainly no expert on anyone else’s body.
So dont be surprised when this kind of thinking turns you into someone that people dont want to be around.
… … …
Nooooooooooooooooooobody cares.
The question was: “Why does it seem most people, mainly conservatives, against Trans people? Unless I am wrong I never heard of one shooting up a school church or whatever. The ones I have met have been pretty cool.”
I carefully listed off all the conservative talking points about why they’re anti-trans. Which answers the question. This…is what…conservatives…think.
I never claimed to be an expert on any of this bullshit; I’ve got better things to do with my life. Goodbye.
I never claimed to be an expert on any of this
😷🖕☮️
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I think most commenters here are missing the point.
There is a more extreme reaction to transgender people as opposed to gay or lesbian people, because of issues like sports and bathrooms. And that hits at people’s sense of injustice. For example if you have a young daughter, a lot of people will hate the idea of a person with a penis going into the women’s room and being around there little girl. Or if that daughter grows up and joins a sports team, the idea of somebody who is hormonally male and thus naturally more muscular competing against your daughter is unpleasant.
Put differently, I think a lot of people we now classify as ‘transphobic’ Don’t actually have much problem with trans people themselves. Rather, with how the efforts to ensure trans people receive the full treatment of their chosen gender can affect the rest of society.
For me personally, I don’t know what the answer is. I generally don’t care which bathroom you use as long as you wash your hands. I have no problem with anyone presenting themselves to the world as whatever they wish, if it makes you happier than by all means. At the same time though, I don’t think it’s transphobic to point out that somebody who is largely or entirely biologically male will have a natural competitive advantage in the field of sports.
So while I certainly don’t want to exclude anybody, I think there is at least a little justification for restricting some women’s sports to those who are genetically female.I think the part people don’t realize is that like a lot of top athletes just have oddities - higher muscle building hormones, circulatory systems that work better under stress, more cellular receptors for triggering muscle building etc. And at the same time sex hormones aren’t the only chemicals that affect these things so there’s also a plethora of performance enhancing drugs cascading out of labs at the same time which is genuinely pumping out hulked up muscle freaks (see Liver King’s 12k steroid shots per month scandal)
At some point it would just make more sense to just classify sports by weight and build and remove the genital inspection element.
I don’t think anyone really cares about sports or bathrooms when it comes down to it It’s all about the patriarchy. Not a single person I’ve met has mentioned a woman who became a man going into a men’s restroom as a problem. Or them entering mens sports outside of the dimly vieled “oh well they could get hurt and a man needs to protect them from making their own decisions”
It all comes back to people thinking men have to take care of women because they can’t take care of themselves without assistance.
It is a reflection of how weak the people who think such are. And projecting and trying to control others lives because they don’t believe they can take care of themselves.
If you believe in people having freedom, stop trying to fucking chain them to your ideals. (Not aimed at you specifically)
There is no patriarchy involved though? Even women actively campaign against trans male participation in women sports.
Just take a look at this video: https://youtu.be/i39VHDmawtw
There are no men involved. Just women, so your argument doesn’t track
A YouTube video of Donald Trump talking on Fox News is your evidence that no men are invoved in having something against trans people. That tracks
🤨. Are you being intentionally obtuse or what?
Not at all. Thats the subject of the thread. Why are people, mainly conservatives, against trans people. And you posted a link to a White Male Conservative on a Conservative platform speaking against some stupid shit that doesn’t matter, and saying men aren’t involved.
The NCAA is a business. If you believe in a free market, then don’t make laws to dictate their rules. If people actually care they’ll stop buying that product and someone will start a new league with different rules and people can participate there.
If anything, do the country a favor and ban official sports teams from the education system. And people can join leagues outside of the college and it will help get education better suited. Scholarships should be for educating future minds to create a better future, not wasted on someone who isnt there for an education. The amount of corruption in schools do to sports in way to high.
Bro hates Trump so much that he didn’t watch past the first 5 seconds💀.
I’m not even going to bother reading what else you typed. You made the argument that the reason people are against trans people is majorly due to the patriarchy, and i linked to an example of a female volleyball team refusing to play a trans team as a direct rebuttal to that point. A rebuttal you would’ve understood if you had gotten over your Trump hate and low attention span to watch the entire video.
“I’m not even going to bother reading what else you typed”
Proceeds to say I have a short attention span. Yeah there is no way I’m sitting through anything that Fox News broadcasts.
Yes, women can be victims of patriarchy brainwashing.
There are working people who voted for the capitalist party.
Same shit.
LoL at thinking Republicans don’t want people with Penises in their Daughter’s Restroom! Conservatives are LITERALLY making it ILLEGAL for people with Penises and Beards to use anything BUT their Daughter’s Restroom!
I think that one thing you and other centrists are missing is that any kind of regulation isn’t just a regulation on trans women, it’s a regulation on ALL women. It won’t be just trans women that will be put in a position of constantly having their genitals checked.
Be it for bathrooms, sports, whatever, you’re opening us up to a world where anyone that fancies themselves an authority will feel empowered to sexually assault any women they want. That’s what’s at stake here. This is a women’s issue, not just a trans issue. Hell, even men will end up getting harassed in bathrooms.
Meanwhile, actual trans people are going to by and large steer clear of segregated contact sports like they’ve always done, feeling the pain of exclusion and marginalization while deserving none of it.
I think I’ve heard there are a lot of genetically male, but born female people in sports. I wonder if the same people are against those people playing in sports.
Idk how many transphobic people just care about specific issues. There’s a lot of “groomer” rhetoric, hate, and general disgust. It’s easy to get people to hate what they don’t understand; and a lot of media is trying their hardest to cultivate hate against trans people to create an out-group, so they can control the in-group.
create an out-group so they can control the in-group
That’s not just the media. It’s basically everyone in power. Media, politics, government, corporations… Everyone.
It applies to the Democrats too. Especially in the 2016 election, they managed to successfully make Republicans the out-group. But I believe that was hugely damaging to the country, it created a lot more division when what is really needed is unity to focus on the issues that most people can agree on.
Because here’s the cold truth- there is a body of policies that probably 80% of Americans would agree on. Things like efficient government, ending government corruption, reducing corporate control over government and elections, reducing income inequality, etc.
To quote Dylan Ratigan’s famous rant, the United States is being extracted. And I think most people would like to stop that extraction.
But no major candidate stands for that. Bernie did, but the DNC iced him out because their wealthy corporate donors didn’t want Bernie.And that in my opinion is why Trump won. Harris certainly didn’t push any major message of radical reform, just a bunch of the usual ‘help the middle class’ talk. Trump may be terrifying, but he does push a message of radical reform and changing the system.
To write that off and say half the country is racist or misogynist is to avoid learning from this situation.
because they’re gay and weird or christian and dumb
the existence of GNC people undermines the thin facade of identity that people construct based on their assigned gender roles. they lash out against internal discomfort
Materialist answer (inspired by a video called Why The Political Compass is Wrong: Establishing An Accurate Model of Political Ideology, by breadtuber Halim Alrah.)
Business owner makes money by paying workers to produce widgets at $6 / unit. Owner sells these widgets at $10 / unit, making a $4 profit each sale.
Before long, the workers catch on to the reality of the situation: the owner could be making a lot less and still be able to provide “leadership” (or whatever it is he provides). They decide not to work for less than… $8 per unit. With this price, the owner will still be wealthy. But now, so will the workers.
Workers save up money and use it to go on strike.
However: business owner comes up with a better solution to the problem: he divides the workers into brown-eyed workers and blue-eyed workers. He then gets the government to discriminate heavily against the brown-eyed workers. His cronies in government make it legal to deny brown-eyed workers jobs and housing. His cronies in the media write hysterical anecdotal stories about various brown-eyed rapists, thieves, and murderers.
Terrified mobs – stoked into a frenzy by the business owner’s well-funded propaganda – tear down brown-eyed people’s homes and food supplies, forcing them destitute before the strike is done.
The brown-eyed workers now must choose between returning to work for the business owner at $5 / unit… or starving to death.
The blue-eyed workers, meanwhile, have just been tricked into betraying their own team. Some were not tricked, but simply unprepared. These blue-eyed workers stood by in either shock, uncertainty, or laziness. Unable to comprehend how their fellow blue-eyed workers could have become so foolish and so cruel.
But now the business owner can put up the illusion of no longer needing the blue-eyed workers. He can run his factory on a skeleton crew of desperate, brown-eyed workers, and say to the blue, “uh oh! Looks like the brown-eyed workers just stole your jobs!”
Much like the brown-eyed workers, the blue-eyed workers have a restricted set of choices: A) admit they were suckers, fooled into attacking their own team, and try to rebuild their union, or B) double down and blame brown-eyed people for undercutting them… but reluctantly return to work, because the strike has been broken. Or, C) just like the brown-eyed workers, they can choose to starve to death.
The business owner wins, and now society has an eye-color-discrimination problem. It was an arbitrary characteristic. Now it decides where someone lives, who they spend time with, and what kind of opportunities they have access to.
The business owner can rinse and repeat for: skin tone, religion, country of origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc. As the saying goes,
“divide and conquer”
Incredible answer! I saved this with my running list of great quotes and passages.
Thank you!
Really well articulated.
Thanks!
I find this disingenuous, infantilizing. Racial discrimination and warring has been happening since the beginning of (recorded) time. It stems, among many, many other things (this thing is incredibly complex), from the fear of the other’s “unknowns”, a somewhat justified fear of others, given humanity’s penchant for conquering the neighbors. Another factor is the use of each own’s feeling of superiority over the other’s, to cover for one’s underlying fear of inferiority in some way. Take the example (one of many, not singling out here) of the Jews assertion that they are god’s chosen people, thus everyone else being inferior.
While divide and conquer has been used since the dawn of time, and adapted by the capitalists, the sad and simple fact is that people fear that which doesn’t conform to their comfortable life scheme, that people want certainty, and having a “different” is unsettling for many, and demonization is an easy way to prop one’s belief structure. People who exchange critical thinking for a “safe” belief structure, find it threatening to have others challenge that, so they fight back, to try to have that attack defeated. This can be exploited by others, to rally against that perceived common enemy. Wave a flag, and all who have a common belief of that flag representing their values will rally.
People don’t want to think, and/or challenge their beliefs. It’s a comfort thing.
I like your answer too. While I strongly believe the trans talking point is being amplified almost exclusively to fuel culture wars between the working class, your point on out-group mentality is a DNA encoded reality, from what I remember reading.
I think the two compromise the bulk of the answer along with the culture war fuel dumped by foreign entities interested in destabilizing the US.
The only remedy is education. Something that is sadly on the decline.
Because conservatives are mostly dumb, and dumb people don’t understand things and won’t make an effort to understand things, and people fear what they don’t understand. Very simple A-to-C.
They have to have somebody to hate so they don’t hate themselves so much.
Rural IL here. Full of conservatives.
Nobody here cares if you are trans. Couldn’t care less.
Never met a school church shooter either.
