One of the few things I remember from my French classes in high school was that the letter is called “double V” in that language. Why did English opt for the “U” instead?

You can hear the French pronunciation here if you’re unfamiliar with it:

https://www.frenchlearner.com/pronunciation/french-alphabet/

V and W are right next to each other in alphabetical order, which seems to lend further credence to the idea that it should be “Double V” and not “Double U”. In fact, the letter U immediately precedes V, so the difference is highlighted in real-time as you go through the alphabet:

  • U
  • V
  • W
  • X
  • Y
  • Z

It’s obviously not at all important in the grand scheme of things, but I’m just curious why we went the way we did!

Cheers!

  • nutsack@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    in many of the objectively superior languages, the names of letters correspond to the sounds they make. ah, beh, cuh, duh…

  • Agent641@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    Why do we say ‘M’ and not ‘double N’?

    Why aren’t there doubles of more letters? I could go for a ‘double O’ or a 'double I"

    Maybe even some 'double D’s

    • eric@lemmy.ca
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      6 days ago

      Why do we say ‘M’ and not ‘double N’?

      It’s more of of a N and a half.

  • bluGill@fedia.io
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    8 days ago

    just after 1600 the letters u an v switched. So if you read something written in 1590 it would use words like ‘haue’ (have) and heauie (heavy). This was two different unrelated switches somewhat seperated in time not an actual trade.

  • As someone whose native language has a “vee” and a “wee”, the whole “double u/v” always seemed kind of weird.

    I know the history of the letter (v turning into u later after being the same letter for centuries) but I never got why some languages stuck with the “double” letter for this long.

  • Mabexer@feddit.it
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    8 days ago

    Fun fact, in Italian “w” is sometimes referred to as “doppia v” which is “double v”.

  • ShaunaTheDead@fedia.io
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    8 days ago

    It actually kinda makes sense. Two sounds that a U commonly makes are “OO” like in “yule” and “UH” like in “just”. If you say “OO-UH” close enough together it makes the sound of a W.

  • Bob@feddit.nl
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    8 days ago

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W

    The Germanic /w/ phoneme was, therefore, written as ⟨VV⟩ or ⟨uu⟩ (⟨u⟩ and ⟨v⟩ becoming distinct only by the Early Modern period) by the earliest writers of Old English and Old High German, in the 7th or 8th centuries.[8] Gothic (not Latin-based), by contrast, had simply used a letter based on the Greek Υ for the same sound in the 4th century. The digraph ⟨VV⟩/⟨uu⟩ was also used in Medieval Latin to represent Germanic names, including Gothic ones like Wamba.

    It is from this ⟨uu⟩ digraph that the modern name “double U” derives. The digraph was commonly used in the spelling of Old High German but only in the earliest texts in Old English, where the /w/ sound soon came to be represented by borrowing the rune ⟨ᚹ⟩, adapted as the Latin letter wynn: ⟨ƿ⟩. In early Middle English, following the 11th-century Norman Conquest, ⟨uu⟩ regained popularity; by 1300, it had taken wynn’s place in common use.

  • GetOffMyLan@programming.dev
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    8 days ago

    The letter “W” is called “double U” because the Normans invented it by combining two pointed capital letters to represent the sound “w” in Anglo-Saxon words after the Norman Conquest of England in 1066. The name “double U” still indicates how the letter was created.

    Before the Norman Conquest, the Latin letter “V” was used to represent both the “v” and “w” sounds. The Anglo-Saxons created a separate character called “wen” to represent the “w” sound. After the Norman Conquest, the Normans combined two pointed capital letters to create the “W” to represent the “w” sound in Anglo-Saxon words.

  • BJHanssen@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    I may be wrong about the actual reason for this - as ‘double V’ is also quite common - and it may just end up being some kind of ‘well when the printing press came to England’ thing, but:

    In the classical Latin alphabet, the letter ‘V’ was not actually representative of what we today recognise as the /uv sound (or its variants). It was in fact the written form of the /u/ sound (and related variants). So when the W was introduced to the English alphabet, I guess it was indeed a ‘double /u/‘.

  • schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de
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    8 days ago

    I am not 100% sure of the answer (I am sure there are websites where this is explained), but I am reasonably sure it has to do with the fact that V and U used to not be distinct letters, but variations of the same letter.

    I find both of those names silly, I like the fact that my first language (German) doesn’t call any letter “double” anything.