Credit Andy Singer 2024
Palestinians aren’t natives. they migrated at the same time as everyone else, 1 million people in 10 years.
Yep, it was the only habitable parcel of land in the world with zero inhabitants until 1832. Jewish people and Palestinians both saw this weird chunk of land and realized they could just move there since no one else was there.
that’s exactly what happened… 1 million Arabs migrated in less than 10 years. whatever population was there before them was completely out numbered by the Arabs. the migration was 30x the increase seen at the same time the “baby boomers” were booming. that’s 30x population count, not 30x the percentage.
Buddy. There were Arabs there.
and they were replaced by more Arabs, follow along:
Arabs can be both a victim and a perpetrator amongst themselves.
crazy right?
Or and this is nuts, but the Ottoman Empire was building up the area and urbanization was happening. Nobody got replaced, it was just more people moving in.
those are synonyms, or are we all pretending gentrification doesn’t exist again?
Oh no, they built more housing and improved the economy! The horror!
only in the spring
I’ve met a guy who no shit said this to me as if it was a justification for Israel’s actions in Gaza.
Anyone mentioning the phrase “3000” years ago is saying it. The Zionist movement is less than 150 years old. The rest of that history is made up.
And from what I heard when palestine was occupied by British they put alot of people who want this land (take this with a grain of salt I found this in a discord server)
As someone who’s been referred to on here as a “Christian fundamentalist”, I struggle to see the theological justification for either of these events. Although I probably don’t have much to say in regards to these Jews as it’s a different religion, but I don’t understand why some Christians are obsessed with Israel and specifically these Jews having it.
why some Christians are obsessed with Israel
I’d say that Zionism is a Christian idea, but that would be false. It’s a “western” idea that orginated among English upper-class Christians that was utterly antisemitic - the idea that Jewish people will always be an “other” in the white, oops, I meant to say “western,” world and essentially “must go back where they came from.”
Right-wing Jewish people picked up this idea from there. Zionism has never been an exclusively “Jewish” thing and it has always been fundamentally antisemitic - that’s why you can even see neo-nazis singing Israel’s praises.
That’s very interesting - I never thought of it as being anti-semetic, but it makes a bit of sense. As a Christian and from a theological standpoint, I don’t see how a bunch of people descended from the ones who rejected Jesus forming a new country which they call “Israel” should be interpreted as being the same as the Biblical Israel. For all they care, they see us as heretics. Why should we see them as different from the likes of Muslims, cultural (but not) christians, atheists, etc. (Also before you think I’m saying we should hate these groups, I’m not, I actually kind of mean the opposite). I believe the temple’s destruction in AD 70 and the construction of the Dome on the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque 600 year’s later is an intentional thing about the old covenant being gone. I just don’t see why “christian zionism” is even a thing when the Bible is interpreted as a whole.
Adi Callai, an Israeli, has a great video about how Zionism has weaponized antisemitism. He goes into the history in reference to Christianity at 29:01
Because the Christian apocalypse requires the foundation of Israel. The Christian side is basically participating in an apocalypse cult, whether they realize it or not.
I speculate that the reason the GOP is so supportive of Trump is because they believe he’s the literal Antichrist and they think that getting him reelected will bring about the end of days. I don’t have the link on me (though someone else might), but I remember reading an article by a Christian scholar or something about how Trump nailed every possible prophecy about the Antichrist that he could, either in a literal or metaphorical sense, during his presidency. Now, I personally thought some of them were stretching it, but it was still a bit freaky and made me consider the possibility that the GOP actually believes something like that.
The funny/sad part is that if they truly are correct (I highly doubt it, but ehhh…), then that means they’ll be fucked alongside Trump due to their support of him. As far as I can remember, the Bible doesn’t give amnesty to the Antichrist’s supporters just because they believed they were “helping god”; if anything I think I remember the Bible saying the opposite (don’t try and force God’s hand or you’ll eventually face his wrath).
(No, I’m not a Christian, but I still find it fascinating and mildly concerning)
This is probably the blog post you’re thinking of
oh wow, accerationism but for apocalypse. antichrist accelerationism
Wait till you hear about the religious Jews trying to genetically engineer the prophesied calf.
That is deep. I think bringing about the Antichrist is just… Absolutely wrong.
…and made up.
How so?
This comic would have been just as effective–and less insulting–had they not included the explanation at the top; the graphic gets the point across just fine.
So, if they kill in the name of God, why aren’t we calling them “terrorists” by now like we do with any other religious group, i.e. muslims … or … mhhhm… or… wait… do we call anyone else terrorists, besides muslims?
I think at this stage we can just call manifest destiny “Americanism.”
I am kind of annoyed by the ismnisms lately.
I’m not.
Fair.
You haven’t heard them all though until you’ve heard of Maggotyismnism.
We’re sick and tired of your ism and schism game
- Bob Marley
Stay in school, friend. This was done countless times well before America became a nation.
The situation isn’t comparable. The majority of Jews in Israel are not European (or from anywhere else), they’re native Israeli and they trace their roots to Israel back for millennia.
The problem is not that Israelis want to live there. They have a right to live there. The problem is that they’re depriving Palestinians of their right to live there instead of seeking peaceful coexistence.
We [as in entire human population] can all convert to Judaism but it won’t ever change our ancestry. It’s just a religion.
Pretty sure modern Israel was founded by western powers as a place to send Jews after WWII.
Any sources
Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe.
Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history.
Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.
That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.
Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
Quote
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
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10 myths of Israel by Ilan Pappe, summerized and full book
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Transfer Committee and the JNF led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate.
Ethnic Cleansing
Good Books on the History
-
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
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The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
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A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
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The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
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The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
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The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
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10 Myths of Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
Wdym sources? You want me to post links 100 year old documents pertaining to British Occupation of Palestine and subsequent League of Nations and later U.N. resolutions to move more Jewish people into Palestine? You need written accounts of the May 13th 1948 withdrawal of British Troops and May 14th establishment of Israel as the first “Jewish State” in 2,000 years?
How about a source on POTUS Truman publicly acknowledging Israel 11 minutes after it was founded. “Some advisors felt that creating a Jewish state was the only proper response to the holocaust and would benefit American interests” according to TrumanLibrary.gov
Why should I have to waste time educating your ass that can’t perform basic web searches?
Right but this is a separate issue. My original comment was about Israelis whose families have been living in that region of the world for millennia. They have a right to be there. They are not equivalent to colonists from Europe arriving in the Americas.
The Israeli government uses antisemitism as a weapon to attack their critics. They conflate criticism of the Israeli government with attacks on Jews. It’s bullshit, duplicitous rhetoric.
But here we are conflating Israelis who can trace their ancestry to that region for millennia with (a minority of) European Jews who moved there during/after WW2, and calling all of them colonists. Now we are being duplicitous!
You’re basically describing a Secular One-State Solution with equal rights for both Israeli and Palestinian people
One or Two State Solution
The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.
- Avi Shlaim
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
I’m not describing any state solution!
Nobody’s right to be anywhere supercedes other people’s, nor justifies killing.
Arab counties shipped Jews to Palestine after they decided to kick them out of their own countries.
Where are the Jews supposed to go?
Little thought expiriment for you: maybe segregating an entire class of people into one secluded corner of the world is fucking stupid? Maybe taking something that requires the murder of thousands or millions isn’t worth the price?
So you refuse to answer my question.
Right.
The answer, which clearly wasnt obvious to you, was literally fucking anywhere and everywhere including where they are now in Israel: just stop treating Palestinians like dirt and second class citizens and the problems will all go away with time.
PM Rabin would have already sorted this shit out, but somebody had him killed and now all bets have been placed on Netan-fucking-yahu for some stupid fucking reason (for 2 decades at that).
Herzl played his part.
The notion of a “promised land” is a lie humans tell to themselves to monopolise the resources we all share with all living things.
It also doesn’t make much sense in the particular context considering on a genetic level Palestinians are as Semitic as modern Ashkenazi jews. And it doesn’t make much sense from a religious stand point because modern Judaism differs from ancient Judaism by about the same amount as Christianity or Islam does. Modern Judaism just has this dogma that Ancient Judaism was secretly observing their form of it even though if we don’t take them at their word there isn’t a lot of evidence of that.
So from a religious standpoint it doesn’t make a lot of sense. And from an ethnic standpoint it makes even less sense.
And also we don’t let Europeans say “these are our ethnic lands” without calling them racist. So then why would we let people who are like 2% ethnic ancient jewish retroactively claim ethnic ownership of some land without calling them racist? They will claim it’s not about race and about religion. Ok, which is worse, a group of highly militant ethno-nationalists, or a group of highly militant theo-nationalists? Zionists are always one of two bad things and they will use arguments to play wackamole about which one to deflect the claims of one. Apparently if you are two bad things at once and it is unclear if you are both or just one of those things you get unlimited license to be both of those bad things.
Who are you trying to convince to do what, exactly?
I’d hope its to convince the government of Israel to get rid of corrupt leader Netanyahu, and to work towards an equitable two state peace agreement with an independent Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza.
Or failing that, to convince people that unconditional support of the current Israeli government is bad, actually. Something many Israeli themselves believe (not to mention non-Israeli Jews).
I feel like comparing murderers to other murderers wont swing any moderates to your side, but idk. If anything, making memes about genocide seems pretty dehumanizing.
You’re not wrong in that if the Palestinian death toll hasn’t swayed someone already, they’re probably not going to be swayed.
More importantly my point being that isnt the author of the meme’s intention to start with.
Ok. Native here. Get out, both of you.
There are no natives playa, unless you are an amoeba
If I thought some other place would take me, I would.
The number of “100% native” people in the U.S. is likely 0. The idea of people leaving if they weren’t from here goes back forever, everywhere. Eventually it’s just a debate of if we are all from Africa or not.
“Go back to being a neanderthal dweeb!”
… Sadly, acceptance and growth are harder than resentment. And most of the time we resent the wrong people.
god I wish
Nah. We’ll just continue to dry wash our hands and apologize while doing nothing useful.
Sorry ‘bout stealin’ your shit. Want it back? Fuck you. Have some empty words.
Go back to Ireland/Scotland? Sure. I need to bring news of what fun things Americans can do with potatoes back to the homeland anyways.
Potato cannon = good times
Best I can do is a spud gun
I was thinking about stuff like chili but that’s fun too.
This is dumb propaganda on so many levels. Zionism isn’t a religious movement. Israelis are not primarily white. This equation is just dumb af
Three statements and all of them wrong that’s impressive.
I does however paint what IS the same.
It’s just greed. They throw in god’s name to relieve themselves of any personal responsibility.
They also throw in God’s name to get the religious rubes on board.
Reminds me of this.
Beat me to it, great recommendation
that was a fun watch
forgot about that and i think it was to help protect my psyche because that was the first time i learned that my vote was suppressed in arizona. lol
What happened?
What do you mean?
How was your vote suppressed?
I mean it was a very good video. But fun, I don’t know.
It’s kind of disingenuous.
It portrays Orthodox Jewishness as being responsible for genocidal Zionism when Orthodox Jewishness has pretty much always been vehemently critical of both Zionism and the creation of Israel.
The Jewish Zionists that perpetrated the Nakba looked no different than their fellow Europeans.
Not really the main crux of the video, is it?
It’s a very important point, considering that the crux of all the white supremacist propaganda we’ve been fed about Israel rests on the idea that Israel (somehow) “represents” Jewishness… and I’d say this plays right into the hasbara’s hands.
fun fact.
The US army gave people ammunition for free if it was used to kill bison for a period of time.
Bison almost went extinct.
Bison were a source of food for the natives.
I love american history!
Every 50 bison they killed they celebrated a bisontennial.
this is awfull (of bones)
i tried, i’m not sorry
You’re offal
Boooo!
Boocentennial?
Bye son
The official reason was the Bison herds were capable of destroying the fields of entire farms. We never stopped to ask if we should have been farming there in the first place.
were bison known for like, destroying fences or something? Or did we just not think of building fences lmao.
Farmers don’t usually fence in their fields. You’re thinking of live stock farming.
well i mean that would make sense but like…
In terms of the chain of logic here.
bison are trampling your field:
- make them extinct
- build a fence
i feel like building a fence would probably make sense here.
I can’t believe you would trample on my freedom to extinct an animal like that.
hey man, don’t look at me like that, they already almost went through extinction ok.
Yes but that would -
Involve effort
Not get them some actually pretty tasty meat. (sorry vegans it’s true, they’re tasty.)
Not give them an excuse to cause suffering among the natives, whose land they were farming on anyways.
i mean, have you ever tried killing an animal? They sort of tend to uh. Move around.
Like you would need to essentially pay thousands of people over the period of years to cull the population of bison, and they did.
And to be clear, they didn’t even really kill them for meat, im sure some did, but a lot of it was just to kill them.
I think they did stop to ask, and the answer they gave themselves was “yes”.
Certainly at every step of the way since we keep answering yes, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Correlation, causation, too many big words.
Which word was to big for you?
“The”
history goes a little wacky
Killing off the Buffalo, which was a source of food, clothing and other vital cultural resources for many indigenous cultures, was an official government policy to destroy those cultures. Couple more words; ecocide, genocide.
