Like for many other people, Valve single player experiences were one of my favorite of all time growing up. I considered both Half-Life and Portal to be masterpieces. It’s true they’ve always been distracted with multiplayer games as well, things like Counter-Strike or Team Fortress and I did play them for sure, because I was a kid and I had all the time in the world.
These days I’m not a kid anymore and so when I game I tend to look more for memorable experiences instead of mindless grinding. Obviously I remember Valve as the experts in creating memorable experiences and I would like them to keep fully exploring those talents. They don’t have that many employees, but they do have all the money in the world, no external pressure, no publisher to shit on them, it’s just their developers and artists and a vision. But then they use all that and create this. An Overwatch looking moba shooter, really? I’m sure people will like and play it, but is this the results of the vision and ambition of a company like Valve?
It doesn’t have to be Half-Life. I remember them saying that they dont want to do another one in the series because they are looking to innovate and make something truly original. My body is ready, give me anything. I can’t imagine a moba shooter really fits with this description. I’m wondering how such a low hanging concept even becomes a real product at a company as ambitious as Valve.
I hear people are having fun with the new game and I’m happy for them. I am no longer the target audience and I wish them good luck with it. In the mean time let me hear your thoughts on it. Would you like to see another single player experience from Valve?
I wish for more fun and casual multiplayer with strong competive side like TF, none of this matchmaking toxic shit no-fun allowed with elo
TF2 has matchmaking even in casual
Back in the golden days of community servers, it sure as heck didn’t.
I’m pretty sure you can still join servers like that. I haven’t played in years, but last time I did, the server browser was still there. A lot less lively because it was hidden compared to the matchmaking button, but it was still there.
It still exists, but a lot of communities shut down after official matchmaking was implemented.
It does now and for quite a while
And DOTA2 has the worst matchmaking I’ve ever seen in casual too. My third game I was placed with the sweatiest sweats and it completely turned me off the game.
Why does this billion dollar company not do exaxtly what I expect them to😡 They made great games because those are the ones I like and now they make shitty games because I dont like them.
I percieve them as different to your run of the mill EA or Ubisoft, so I expect more from them. That’s on me I guess. I’m not angry though, just disappointed.
Have they released bad games?
Artifact yeah
There’s been a bunch of Country Strike releases that got very negative receptions
Is Artifact still active at all?
Can’t see bad reviews for any of those from critics.
Artifact has good scores from critics, as does CS2, nothing from Zombies. Not sure one game from 20 years ago says much when it’s just 1.6 with bots. The game isn’t bad, people just expected more than that.
And why is critics’ opinion more important than the opinion of the actual players?
I wish they’d at least do some fun story driven coop stuff instead of only pvp stuff. But, I miss the single player days.
I’d love to get another singleplayer game as well, but I’ve accepted that Valve is just unpredictable. I’m sure they haven’t given up on Singleplayer and we’ll get another singleplayer game… at some point. Their previous game was the fantastic Half-life Alyx after all.
I mean, stuff has leaked about a possible new Half Life game, I guess we’ll see soon™
Stuff has been leaking about the next Half Life game since Episode 2 came out, and not much of it had anything to do with what we ended up getting with Alyx. Don’t get your hopes up newbie.
“An overwatch looking moba shooter”
No, it plays like Battleborn and Monday Night Combat, a third person shooter with moba elements. It’s not overwatch, it’s not Dota.
Also calling Overwatch a “MOBA shooter” is like calling Mario Kart a “Rogue like racer” because you start each race fresh with everything reset. It’s just an FPS, nothing MOBA about it.
I think they’re calling deadlock a moba, not overwatch
The point stands that it’s derivative. I’m convinced Valve can do better.
Even if it is, it’s a derivation I’ve been sorely missing. Ever since Battleborn got shut down, there’s been a Battleborn shaped hole in my heart. Deadlock fits in that hole really well.
It’s possible that the whole impetus for creating Deadlock came from something like that. Someone at valve, like me, enjoyed the hell out this particular mix of mechanics.
There’s nothing like it. Dota doesn’t do the trick, neither does Overwatch. Of all things, the closest thing might be Titanfall 2’s titan combat.
Did you ever try Paladins? I somehow ended up playing Battleborn when it came out and really liked it, even though it got panned. Always thought Paladins was a close second.
No. Some also like Gigantic, but they never appealed to me enough to try em.
I was in the Battleborn beta, and had such a blast I absolutely had to keep playing, so I bought it day one.
I was really sad to see it be loved by those that played it, and hated as an “Overwatch clone” by everyone else.
And isn’t everything derivative? What’s the issue with that? If feel like you’re really trying to gather negativity towards this game simply because it doesn’t pander to your tastes
Well, I guess your are right that everything is derivative. I also think some things are more alike than others and also some markets are more saturated than others. When Half-Life came out it was in a saturated market of FPSs but it also revolutionized the market. When Portal came out no one could compare it to anything other that a student project. Half-Life Alyx is still considered the no 1 most polished and complete game in the VR space. We’ll see the impact that Deadlock will have I guess.
I’ve been looking for a game that fills the void left exactly by Super Monday Night Combat, so for me… This might be it (altough i’ll miss the style).
Haven’t played it yet because I don’t have an invite, but I’m carefully hyped by it.I don’t get how everyone keeps comparing it to those games when Smite exists and it’s damn near identical?!
Because it’s not identical. SMITE plays like the top down mobas but in a third person perspective. Deadlock plays like a third person shooter with moba elements.
Monday Night Combat
Well, that’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.
I think the same 5 people are still playing it.
Sadly I can’t say the same of Super Monday Night Combat, damn non-community servers.
Isnt Icefrog one of the lead devs? I guess he likes this style of game. How many Total Wars, 4x and CoDs were released while Valve made one more Dota-like. Valve has some cool people working, vut O don’t see a Suda51, a Raphael, Swery or Co, who has the focus to develope such a single player experience. If the flat structure with ‘at will’ project focus is still a thing, than sp games have probably a problem getting devs.
Since they are probably working on other stuff as well could this mean that Icefrog is the only lead who can take a project to completion reliably within Valve’s organizational structure?
we’re getting old dude
the kids who are the age we were in the half life glory days–they don’t want single player. they want league of apex legends fortnitewatchstrike
single player games won’t go away completely, but they’re definitely taking a backseat to whatever the rage is with the kids. currently mobas. just google “most played video games” if you’re not depressed enough already
It’s not a question of demand, is a question of profit. Multiplayer games stand to make a lot more money than singleplayer. Nobody will spend real world dollars on cosmetic items in a singleplayer game.
And it’s gonna continue until regulations recognize how these games are psychologically terrible for kids and have gambling mechanics.
Skyrim has no multiplayer component, but plenty of people have paid cash money for cosmetic items.
Not even close to the same scale as what Valve and Blizzard get people to pay for skins and hats
profit is a function of demand
“Single player games have taken a backseat”. Okay. We’re just going to state that as a truth? And also just stating kids as being the main video games audience still?
I mean if single player games have taken such a backseat, why are big companies pouring so much money into games such as Horizon, Dragon Age, Assassin’s Creed, Anno or Dark Souls? Why are indie games, thousands and tens of thousands of them, so overwhelmingly single player? Why is Zelda still not a MOBA? Just does not really hold water as an argument IMO. If anything it seems the opposite is happening and after the height of MOBAs in ˜2015, the market is slowly creeping back.
Single player games are less and less profitable these days. What the original commenter could have said is, these days, there isn’t much money to be made telling a story when fortnight makes so much money by doing nothing but cosmetics.
“Single player games have taken a backseat”. Okay. We’re just going to state that as a truth?
I think we can state as a truth that they have less potential profit.
And also just stating kids as being the main video games audience still?
They spend more money. Probably because it’s not theirs.
There’s plenty of room to monetize single player games when it’s add-in content to games that you continually replay as opposed to add-on content for something that’s story driven. More systemic games like Civilization, roguelikes, simulators, etc.
Not nearly as much. Look at games like Rocket League that are many years old but still selling new skins every month.
When your game isn’t live service multiplayer, your incentives change to putting out more sequels rather than iterating on the same game. So your revenue per game goes down, but there’s no reason it can’t necessarily be as lucrative overall.
They make way more money selling skins for years and years than any DLC ever will. This is clear as day. Not sure where the confusion is.
It’s not confusion. Your perspective is survivorship bias. For every Rocket League, there are 10 Concords. That’s why the entire industry is imploding right now. Everyone thinks their game will be Fortnite, but only so many games can be Fortnite, and a lot of that even comes down to luck, so you’ve got games like Avengers and Suicide Squad losing hundreds of millions of dollars each instead of making games for half or a quarter of their budgets that would have recouped their costs and then some.
Both of your points are only partially correct.
I think we can state as a truth that they have less potential profit.
Wrong, they just take less effort and have a more constant revenue stream.
Potential for profit means nothing, when so many attempts at milkable forever games end up like Suicide Squad or Concord.
Also you can come into them half baked and pull the plug if the game doesn’t sell (because it’s half baked) like they’re doing with SS and they did with the Avengers game.
They spend more money.
They don’t, you can’t spend money you don’t have, whales are working adults.
Kids spend money for less. Better ROI, not higher payoff.
You make the 18302nd skin and troves of kids will badger their parents for fortnite bucks so they can buy it but not everyone will. The upside is that making a skin costs you single digits percent points of the profits, so even if one or two are a dud, you’re fine, the good ones will make up for it.
It’s a business model you can throw money at once the game’s got an audience base, which is very attractive to companies, because it’s uncomplicated and reliable.
I think we can state as a truth that they have less potential profit.
That’s true but it’s not because people aren’t playing single player games. The reason single player games are less profitable is because the non-subscription, non-microtransaction single player market is extremely saturated with indie games. That makes it very hard to sell AAA single player games. The standards are extremely high and the opportunities for extra monetization are not there.
I have been a single player gamer for most of my life, yet I haven’t bought a AAA single player game in decades. I have more indie single player games to play than I know what to do with, and frankly they appeal to me more than AAA titles. Expensive graphics and voice acting don’t have much draw for me these days. I am much more interested in roguelikes and retro games now. I think there are thousands of others like me out there, among all those who don’t go in for multiplayer games and haven’t purchased a console.
Don’t they supposedly have a couple other games in the works, too? What are the chance they’re working on three new MOBAs?
Inject this hopium into my veins.
They could just be one moba, one hero shooter and one last man standing, all online and all competitive.
The laws of captialism entropy:
Any organization that sees success will attract profit-driven leadership, and will become such over time. The soul from the original founders will be watered down, dampened, or ejected.
A profit-driven organization will over time become more and more profit-seeking, never less. Once this reaches a certain threshold, we start to use phrases like “enshittification”. Valve hasn’t gone shit yet imho, but their soul and passion doesn’t seem to lie in games anymore.
The next excellent product comes from new, growing organizations or small teams that may grow into such.
It is best to just treat it as any other law of nature and so we move on from Blizzard, Google, EA, Valve, Epic Games, Unity, etc and go swim in the wonderful vibrant indie scene.
This is just a reminder that Gabe Newell is just another billionaire and he collects yachts, he’s not your friend!
I’d like them to do an RPG, something completely off the wall, like the TF2 crew playing D&D.
I’m not saying everything in the world has been done, but “what, like Tiny Tina’s Wonderlands?”
Yeah, was thinking the same thing. Which, importantly, is already a game based upon a DLC for a previous Borderlands game!
but they do have all the money in the world, no external pressure, no publisher to shit on them, it’s just their developers and artists and a vision.
I think that’s part of the issue. Supposedly they do have multiple games in development and a large percentage of their employees are working on them. But they are content to let the creative and technical processes play out, without announcing too-ambitious release dates which inevitably get pushed back and still have a buggy game released. And sometimes they even cut their losses if a long term project just isn’t working out.
I’m not a kid anymore, I don’t have time for a deep immersive single player campaign, I want a light casual game I can play a few rounds of to relax after work.
I’m not a kid anymore and I’m the opposite: give me a single player Half Life 3 so I can relax without getting stressed online after work.
I honestly cannot fathom how people find pvp games relaxing. They’re toxic as fuck and their competitive online nature makes them inherently stressful.
If you do anything enough times, most of your responses are automatic. You’re doing less thinking and more instinctively responding to the situation.
Nah, I just type gg at the end. They’re just games, like disc golf, volleyball, or airsoft. I lose sometimes, actually I lose a fuck-ton, but that’s just statistics if the matchmaking isn’t actually the worst. It’s those wild unscripted moments. Coordinating with your buddies. Learning your opponents. Learning yourself.
I get the appeal of single player games, but I’ll just share my opinion: to me the most stressful gaming moments are hard bosses in single-player campaigns. If I get my ass handed to me in a multiplayer match, nbd “gg This is Rocket League”. I’ll get them next time. In the single player you’re stuck though. I’ve gotten migraines because I couldn’t beat a boss and I was stressing over the wasted money I spent on the game that I might not ever finish. Beating a boss after <5 tries is satisfying. Beating it after 20+ feels like getting out of the hospital.
I find single player enemies to be mostly easy and usually it is just a pattern logic that you have to figure out. Online games are just engagements with people who clearly take the game and what happens way too seriously, evident when you don’t meet the required expectations (that goes for being bad and better than them alike). I also find pvp games way too repetitive. It’s always the same matches over and over again. The same map, the same weapons, the same tactics. The randomness of the matchmaking just adds to making it more of a pointless experience. But ultimately, nothing really changes.
I wasn’t a kid anymore when HL came out. Hope you are still having fun, whatever you’re doing.
After two young kids I’ve pretty much abandoned multiplayer. Singleplayer, even deep ones, can be be paused, saved, interrupted and come back to later. And I’m wanting to go back to more distinct experiences, whereas I find stuff like league or live service games overfills time. I’m trying to avoid sandbox games too currently as well. Crusader kings, Stellaris, civilization are great, but im trying to concentrate on the more story driven games backlog right now
I grew up and decided that games have a place in my life to give experiences, you grew up and decided that they are a source of burst distractions. I guess age has nothing to do with it and it’s just about personal preference.
I was just looking at Valve’s publishing history. Their catalog is super small, only releasing games every few years. Aperture desk job was amazing (even if very short and sweet). I don’t have VR but Half Life:Alyx was also very well received. Recent evidence suggests there will be a HL3 sometime in the near future.
Do I wish Valve would invest more of the unfathomable amount of money they’re making into producing excellent games? Absolutely.
Am I going to hold it against them if some of the games they make are money-printing machines? Not really.
Valve is not a normal company. As far as I know they still have their fluid work structure in place where projects are dictated by what the devs themselves feel like doing and are inspired by.
Icefrog (who was the lead developer of Dota 2 - and Dota 1 for many years before that) is lead developing Deadlock as I understand it. It has his fingerprints all over it, at least. It seems enough other people at Valve liked his idea of a twist on the MOBA concept to turn it into a full project.
I feel your frustration but there isn’t really any opportunity cost lost here. It’s not that they decided to make “a game” and chose this one out of all available options. If they felt like they had enough ideas to make Half-Life 3 (or any other single player game) then they would have. It’s just that this is the game they want to make right now.
They are doing what they like, you would be complaining about them making games without passion, make they really like tf2 and Dota lol
