Forgot where I read because it’s been years ago, but someone said that humans should be blessed being born human and not as sheep, as sheep can be led anywhere without question including for slaughter.
Has the sheep made any plans for this resistance? Have they made any preparations for it? Formed any organizations? No? They just expected all the other sheep to suddenly form themselves into an army, do all the work themselves, and then praise the guy who said “we should mount a resistance” as a great visionary hero?
The second sheep is right. That isn’t the time to say “we should mount a resistance”. It’s the time to actually resist using whatever means you have available. Of course, that would take actual effort and sacrifice, so they’ll just march to the slaughter wondering why the revolution never came.
The military can send missiles to any point on the globe with an accuracy of centimeters without losing a man. The time for a resistance was decades ago.
We overslept.
Weapons are for the weak.
America didn’t win in Afghanistan, and you think it would win a war if the military was forced to turn their guns on friends and family?
Yes. I absolutely do. There’s a reason Trump fired military commanders.
commanders don’t really matter if the soldiers revolt
The soldiers are people who looked at this and said “sign me up”.
Best of luck.
and with such vast power and influence… name the victories the US has had verses am insurgency on their own turf?
and that’s considering untouchable industrial military complex and logistics pipeline, more better trained, and armed forces, unlimited money, and no real push back from the american populous.
if one appeared within the US… it would be absolutely devastating to the military
name the victories the US has had verses an insurgency on their own turf?
None. Because they have only been tried once and failed because the odds were even. But now…
The military can send missiles to any point on the globe with an accuracy of centimeters without losing a man.
If you think the armed civilian populace of America can stand up to the full weight of the military Bering down on them…. I wish you good luck. But we both know how much all the internet bravado only looks good in writing.
since the 1770’s i know of two wars the US has won against an insurgency.
the US has been in a LOT of wars though. and one of the things they learned was that bombs were not very effective, and the us would have a much worse time off it bombing their own cities. A-wall’s and desertions would go through the roof, they would be out gunned a thousand to one, with literally more guns then people. Isfulstructure they would rely on is vulnerable from every angle, the government would be prisoners in their own bunkers.
it would be devestating if the us has an insurgency
For all of our sakes, I’m sure we won’t have to worry about it because it’s not going to happen anyway.
For all of your sakes, I hope you’re right, but what is happening right now is literally every single right is being stripped away. Even the right to vote is in a thin line. Is it worth fighting if you’re no longer allowed to vote? If not, the american people are as spineless as I always thought they were.
It’s easy to pass judgment, isn’t it?
Disagree. There’s too many Americans to carpet the whole 🇺🇲. Trump doesn’t want a pyrrhic victory.
Trump wants a victory. I all but guarantee he doesn’t care how it happens.
But… they don’t have enough missles to kill even 1% of the population (no source) Unless you include nukes… So they don’t really matter if the resistance is large enough.
they don’t have enough missles to kill even 1% of the population
So if we’re going to resort to splitting hairs, let’s do it right.
No- America does not have enough “missles” to kill everyone in America. However the number they can kill would be FAR greater than one percent, as one percent of America is only three point three million people. The population of New York alone is eight point eight million.
So, if the military simply just sent one or two Trident II D5s per city, it would wipe out any potential resistances that could even stand a snowball’s chance in Florida.
Now, that’s just New York.
The U.S. has fourteen Ohio-class submarines. Each capable of carrying a maximum of twenty Trident II D5 missiles, for a total of two hundred and eighty deployed missiles.
So let’s say we sent two per major US city. That’s one hundred and forty major US cities of their choosing- Wiped out. Gone.
The only half-assed winning strategy here would be to amass said resistance in the heart of every red state.
Hope this helps.
I did say unless you include nukes.
And my point was that they don’t even need them to shut that shit down.
Two non nukes per city would be barely a scratch. Maybe a few thousand people per city if you hit the most densly populated spot.
Look up what a Trident 2 D5 can do.
Everything I see talks about it being nuclear. So no source on what it can do with a non nuclear payload. But I feel confident it is less than MOAB. And that can’t kill to many.
Yes. And the second best time is now.
Yeah… lol. It always looks good in text, doesn’t it?
“THE SECOND BEST TIME IS NOW.”
It’s such a bold and provocative statement. The problem is when it comes to actually do the work. Ninety one million people couldn’t bring themselves to check a box in November. So…. I predict that the castle will remain un-stormed.
This again.
bring themselves to check a box for genociders.You’re absolutely fucking stupid if you think this is better. You get a genocide plus an erosion of every facet of your life, reducing your potential impact to affect said genocide.
Genocide started underBlue MAGA, they supported it.
What happens to the US and their erosion is deserved, they onlu cared about themselves anyway.
Now they get a taste of their own medicine. Enjoy
This again.
As I said on the other comment you said the same thing on:
Looks like you ended up with all that genocide but now with a side of LGBTQ+ persecution, illegal deportations, and concentration camps!
How’s all that winning feeling bud?
I’m European, seeing you go down is winning
Yeah. So. I’m not sure what your damage is, but it’s not my business. There’s clear something going on there and it’s not my problem.
You’re derailing the conversation to illustrate that you get some sadistic joy from the suffering of others and I don’t believe giving you the platform to continue is healthy for anyone involved, so I’m blocking you.
Be sure to come at me with your sock puppets so I can block them too.
I think it’s just better for everyone.
some sadistic joy from the suffering of other
LOL
The majority of the world wants you violent imperialist mass murdererd gone.
It’s a joyful event.
No crocodile tears for any of you or your kind.
But rolling over is not an option. The military isn’t going to kill all the workers. The workers are more important than any other group. If the workers strike, the rich suffer.
I’m not sure if anyone told you, but if the workers strike- everyone will also suffer. Including non combatant civilians.
When the resistance in territories occupied by nazi germany and imperial japan killed a high ranking official of the occupying force, the occupiers would round up innocent people and shoot to kill them on the streets. “Reprisals” is what it’s called. But do you think the resistance should’ve given up? Surrender to nazi germany and imperial japan just to avoid the “reprisals”? No, because if they had done that, the whole world would be speaking german and japanese.
lol… it’s not the 1940’s. You know this right? It’s important that you know this.
Yeah guys! It’s very important that we learn nothing from history and that we ignore the signs of fascism rearing its head once more. /s
Obviously. What do you think happens to the workers once they’re enslaved? The workers need to unite NOW, if they’re ever gonna have a chance to pull the rich and powerfull down into the mud.
But what is your solution to the current issue then?
So… your solutions is basically to fuck everyone and just stop everything. lol….
Good luck with that.
My solution?
My solution is to have had everyone vote back in November. That way the bed we’re now having to lie in wouldn’t have been made for us in such a way the at would lead to you and I having to have this conversation.
But considering the fact that my solution requires manipulating the laws of physics, and fits has a barely above zero chance of succeeding.
We’re fucked and all we can do is wait it out.
If you did have a time machine, how would you get everyone to vote?
Oh there’d be no way I alone would be able to move that mountain. The concept I spoke of involved everyone from right now, going back to 2024 knowing then what we know now…. for a do-over.
But the more I read through the comments, the more I have to accept that many of the people here would chose not change a fucking thing.
There’s tons of people here who were here during the election that were crying and shouting for everyone to not vote blue.
Every single one of them that haven’t run away or rolled an alt so as to return to play the victim of their own decisions- are still going on about that shit. Not a single one admitting they made a mistake and that they wished they could have helped stop this. Not ONE. Yet you don’t see anyone wishing they hadn’t voted against Trump. Even if they (like me) had to plug their nose to do it.
So at this point, I think the collective ignorance has reached such a profound level, that it would be impervious to any form of modification via time travel. It’s so much a part of our fucking culture now, that there’s no chance we wouldn’t just take that shit back there with us. Hell, I’d go so far as to say that our ignorance so fucking prevalent within us that I honestly believe that at this point- it’s embedded into our evolutionary process- essentially….
stupidity is in our DNA.
You know how you could change it? By convincing the DNC they will 100% lose on the platform and actions that made them lose. Nothing else, going back and trying to tell millions of people that ICE will send people to concentration camps and deprive them of due process and give Israel unlimited logistical and diplomatic support as they commit a genocide, and they will say “…like theyre doing now?”
LOL “wait it out”
What a bunch of pathetic weaklings.
Where’s your american heroes patriot biggest fighter for freedom stand up for what we believe in greatest country democracy in the universe talk now?LOL “pathetic weaklings”
What wouldn’t you suggest they do? And keep in mind, your suggestion needs to include something you yourself are willing to do.
Because it seems so easy for so many to send tens of thousands of people to their deaths. Put up or shut up.
And for the record, blind ignorance fuels blanket accusations. Never in my entire life have I ever said american’s are heroes, patriots, the biggest fighters for freedom. The last time I stood for anything American was the pledge when I was in gradeshool.
So you’re free to take your shit and shove it right back to where you found it.
I’m not american, I don’t need to do shit, on the contrary.
I love watching Trump fuck up your cancer country.
So just don’t do anything, and hope your slaveowner will be nice? Got it. He won’t, and a lot of people will die because you don’t give enough of a shit.
Words look so cool when strung together to make a rallying statement of intent to act, don’t they.
But you all seem to always fall short of action.
There was supposed to be an uprising in November, December, January, February, March, shall I go on?
You all are so quick to climb over one another to be the first to pat yourselves on the back for typing up the coolest words to inspire OTHERS to act. You all salivate at the idea of bringing all types of violence to Nazis, the upper classes, the CEOs… yet, nothing. Words.
Here I’m only speaking the truth. I’ll make no apologies that you don’t like it or that it’s unpopular. Im too old and too tired of pretending to believe that any of you have the strength of conviction to leave your houses let alone begin a grassroots movement to make change. So forgive me for not buying into this make believe army of yours.
For fuck’s sake. Tend of thousands of you couldn’t be bothered to tick a fucking box to save democracy.
Now you’re wanting everyone to believe you’re willing to lay down your life for it? Pretend all you want bud. But don’t get mad when people call you out.
Fucking LOL.
Voter turnout is always highest for presidential elections, and the last two have had the highest in decades. Yet that is still in the low 60’s. Any ideas for how to increase turnout?
vote harder!
A fascist dictator who laid out exactly what he was going to do in a bullet pointed manefesto was enough for me. But considering that this wasn’t enough to make people get off their asses and check a fucking box- I really don’t see anyone scrambling to arms.
There was no box with a non-genocide collaborator.
No one is coming to save you, my friends. Strength, as always, lies in community building.
Also better written: “my friends: Strengthen yourselves together, you can achieve miracles when you bond.”
The arrival and processing of an entire transport of Jews from Carpatho-Ruthenia, a region annexed in 1939 to Hungary from Czechoslovakia, at Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp in Poland, in May of 1944. The picture was donated to Yad Vashem in 1980 by Lili Jacob.To be fair some did try but there was surprisingly little resistance
I mean, you can see this to some degree in cities like LA or Chicago or even Houston. Collective resistance efforts happen. You can - and people occasionally do - throw rocks or fire guns or even just fling their sandwiches at the occupying paramilitary.
But much like with the occupation of Iraq or Afghanistan or the capture of Syria or the bombings in Yemen or the invasion of Ukraine or the militarization of far-right governments in Guatamala and El Salvador and Honduras and Argentina, the state can bring a lot more violence against a nascent resistance movement than the movement can repel.
Without an active armed ally - like the French during the American Revolution or the Soviets in Vietnam - a government with the benefit of mass surveillance and air power and armored infantry is very difficult to dislodge.
Just look at Cuba, a country that’s been suffering the armed occupation of Guantanamo Bay for 60 years. Or Gaza, for that matter.
If I remember my history correctly, a major point of the gas chambers was that the prisoners were convinced that they had been sent to a labour camp, and were sent into the chambers to shower. By convincing people that they weren’t in immediate life threatening danger, it was much easier to control them.
Of course, nobody could even imagine the absolute horror of the Holocaust. If you told me that someone would take hundreds of thousands (millions) of fit, working age people and simply wipe them out, I would have a much easier time believing the other guy that said “no, you’re being sent to take a shower before being placed in a labour camp. Life will be hard, but obviously we wouldn’t waste resources just killing everyone on the spot.”
Of course, nobody could even imagine the absolute horror of the Holocaust.
The Armenians could. As could the Nambians. As could the residents of Nanjing, China and Gando, Korea.
But these mass murders were so chronically under-reported - even deliberately suppressed - in media controlled by the political opposition and its allies, that it was possible to never know they’d happened much less consider they could happen locally.
I would also note how the Israel assassination of journalists across Gaza and the West Bank has gone a long way towards suppressing the size and scale of their genocide, particularly at the upper reaches of western media. You absolutely can talk to people in DC or London or Berlin who will (either deliberately or out of their own cloistered media consumption habits) not recognize the scale of atrocity.
But even if you could have convinced someone staring into a cattle car in Poland or Austria that this was the beginning of the end, what would you expect this person to do? Surrounded by armed men who were, in turn, surrounded by tanks and supported by bombers, how were they expected to respond?
The countries had already been defeated. Their people had already been broken on the wheel of war. They were civilians without the training, much less the materials, to mount any kind of guerrilla campaign. They had no Che Guevara or Ho Chi Mein or even a Huey P. Newton to rally them. There certainly wasn’t a Mao on hand to lead them in a Long March for their survival and eventual return.
They’d put their trust in the established state lords. Those lords had failed. And now there was nothing standing between them and the gas chambers. Feels trite to say they all should have rushed the guards in a mob, when the Charge of the Light Brigade was the last famous incident of such epic folly.
Of course, historically people “could have imagined”. I’m talking about seeing this through the eyes of a civilian that is brought off a train wagon and told they are being put in a labour camp. In that situation, I think very few people have it in them to imagine that their captors are organising the largest and most industrialised mass murder in history, and that they won’t even make it out of the “showers” alive.
I don’t expect them to launch a revolt, but with prisoners outnumbering guards 100:1, I don’t think so many would have walked to their execution in orderly files. I think there would have been a lot more kicking and screaming involved if they knew what was coming. Remember that these weren’t strangers either: We’re talking about whole families and all their friends sitting calmly together on the train and walking willingly into the gas chambers. That only happens if people are lured into thinking this is something other than it is.
The time for retreat and insurrection was the day Kraków fell, not the day you stepped out of a prison train.
Go read about the Colditz Castle Prison Break. That involved full units of British POWs collaborating in the waning days of Nazi occupation. And it still failed, getting virtually everyone killed.
Apart from a broken spirit, there’s also a lot of denial. “This can’t be happening. It can’t be that bad. It all will be over soon. We’ll make it through.”
prisoners outnumbering guards 100:1
100 unarmed, malnourished civilians, many of them old, young or female and almost all of them never having killed or even seriously hurt anyone in their lives vs 1 murderous soldier who has already murdered dozens of people today alone, armed with training, guns and fortified positions… It’s not a winnable fight. Maybe if you put exactly these 101 people in one room the 100 could stand somewhat of a chance, but that’s not what happened here.
Look for example at the referenced Sonderkommando revolt. From what I can find, the Sonderkommando consisted of able-bodied men in somewhat ok condition. They were pretty much the best-suited for a revolt. And still at the end of the revolt, 452 Sonderkommando members were dead and only 3 Nazi soldiers died. It was like shooting fish in a barrel.
Also, compared to the regular prisoners, the Sonderkommando members actually knew what was going on and that nobody was supposed to make it out of the camp alive. They managed to keep the extermination a secret even inside the camps.
I never said the kicking and screaming would have been successful. I’m just trying to explain why I think so many people went quietly, and pointing out that most people, when faced with the prospect that their entire family, all their friends, and they themselves face imminent death if they do nothing will tend to do something, regardless of whether it’s likely to succeed.
That’s a good point
😭
There’s a genocide happening in Palestine right now and anyone calling out the terrorist IDF army gets called “antisemetic”.
It is much easier to accept the situation than to suffer and try to change it. This is how we live even now…
Then the sheep mounts a resistance by doing the best it can (killing the farmer or shouting very loudly), see that whatever it has done hasn’t changed anything and that nobody is joining or paying attention to it, and then it’s an express ticket to meatpacking plant or worse.
Mounting a resistance is much harder than “just doing something”
Have you tried the French Method
If Americans aren’t even willing to protest, truly protest, they’ve already lost their country to the first tinpot dictator that came along. It’s horrifying seeing someone downvote a post like yours that urges them to defend themselves.
America is lost and it’s because of Americans.
French method is how we got in the situation we are in, it literally led us from the rule of aristocrats to rule of capitalists
Giving up before trying is the best way to help the enemy
It’s better to not even try. Sounds very American.
It’s more of a critique of the “just do something” culture. Killing one farmer will just result in that farmer getting replaced with an identical cog in the machine, it also won’t magically inspire all the sheep to kill their oppressors as seen historically with humans - that kind of thing is only found within books.
Pretty much the only kind of effective action if the goal is to change things rather than merely feel good in the moment is organization, but it is a slow, tedious and dangerous process - it’s not something that can be achieved immediately or individually.
I grew up playing baseball. I’d rather go down swinging.
I used to think that a good death would be in my sleep, in my old age. Now I think of that as a waste. I’ve come to the conclusion that my end will have a twist ending, and I intend to make the best of it.
and then it’s an express ticket to meatpacking plant or worse.
Where the sheep was going anyways in the first place. If we go out, why not make the best of it?
Cool, we’ll wait for you to do something instead of being edgy on the internet.
Damn! I thought the OP ignited a flame and you’d join the fray. I’m the same as you I guess, being flippant to the folk who are concerned but helpless. Let’s all wait!
I highly reccomend the book ‘Blessed is the Flame’ for a more in-depth take on this mindset, and how it breaks. It’s a short read, but quite incredible.
@AntiBullyRanger At least now I understand how “ordinary russians” came to be. Soon, “ordinary Americans” will be saying how they can’t do anything, because they will be getting arrested for holding a plain white paper. It won’t get easier and the fascist are not going to stop voluntarily or democratically, that’s kinda their whole point.
@AntiBullyRanger
#alttext A black-and-white cartoon depicting a herd of sheep approaching a meatpacking facility. One sheep suggests mounting a resistance, while another sheep responds that now is not the time.How many people are upvoting this while still eating meat and not realising they are the fascists in the non-human animal’s world?
ROFL!!!
Believe it or not, fascism in the human world is generally considered to be more concerning by most people. I sure do wonder why.
So you agree that this is in fact fascism but you don’t care because the victims are lesser than you? Gee, I wonder where I heard that before.
I am a specists, and I believe equal rights and dignity extend to all humans. And farm animals are not humans.
Now, obviously morality shifts as the society evolves so I am open to reconsider my position. Maybe the day we let farm animals vote will be the day I become vegan.
I choose to stay alive over giving my life to my neighbour, not because they are an inherently lesser being, but because I value my own life over another.
Not eating a burger will literally kill me
You rn.
Im fine with being against factory farming cause that shit is fucked and causes exreme suffering.
But I am an animal like any other and I eat meat. Like many other animals. We evolved as omnivores. We evolved to eat meat as well as plants. I do not feel guilty eating meat. It would be like judging a lion for eating a gazelle. Thats nature. Thats life.
I dont buy into this idea that we are somehow above it all. We are part of the food cycle.
I dont buy into this idea that we are somehow above it all.
You do in fact buy into that idea and I can show you with a single example: Do you consider consent important for procreation?
Also, Omnivore tells you what you can eat, not what you have to.
Also, Omnivore tells you what you can eat, not what you have to.
This is true. Only a vegan tells you what you have to.
😂
Do you consider consent important for procreation?
I mean, you really should also consider consent when you’re doing it just doing it for fun.
But in this case it doesn’t matter since you can’t get pigs pregnant anyway.
Le epic funny reddit comment
Thats a terrible analogy and you know it. Arguing in bad faith aint gonna get you anywhere.
It’s not an analogy, it’s an example that shows you being “above it all”. Just saying “nature tho” is pretty lazy and I think you know that.
Other animals are lesser than humans. This is why people think self driving cars who have to crash into either a human or an pet should crash into the latter.
What is true about those other animals that, if it were true about a human, would also make you consider the human to be lesser?
What makes other animals comparable to humans? If you had to choose between a human and a pet dying, which would it be? Could you go up to a holocaust survivor and with a straight face tell them that their suffering is equally bad to a domesticated cow?
Could you go up to a holocaust survivor and with a straight face tell them that their suffering is equally bad to a domesticated cow?
-
severity is not the only axis of comparison
-
Yeah I figured that you couldn’t answer my question. Maybe think on that.
ntt is a fallacious line of argument. it falls prey to the spectrum fallacy.
Is my farm cat a fascist in the mice world? I’ve been concerned for a while now.
Does your cat build death factories like this one? Then maybe.
Do animals know what fascists are?
No, but we do.
Hail Sheepler!
May his glorious wool forevermore cover our eyes
Damn g chill out, vegans be out there in Hollywood pestering studios to use ethically killed worms in their films while real people are getting glassed. Maybe create an hierarchy of empathy before treating a chicken equal to a human’s life
“Maybe create a hierarchy of empathy” is certainly a take
You sure you thought this through?
Now is not the time.
While OP’s comment was a bit unpromtped, the irony is glorious.
lmao this is dark… And a very good comparison of the world as it is now.
Reality is worse: 90% of sheep bred for meat are lambs slaughtered at less than 2 years old. Mutton (adult sheep) is cheaper and less preferred.
what’s so bad about any of that?
You have one specific meat industry largely organized around killing baby animals.
why should baby animals matter more than any other? one that’s had longer to live and develop relationships surely is worse to be led to slaughter than one with hardly any understanding of the world and their place in it.
With how industry has changed chickens… I am always surprised they haven’t managed to modify sheep so that the adults are as desired as the young.
Why should they? Adults are more expensive to raise per kg of meat.
I assumed the adults were a lot bigger.
Not a lot. Growth slows down fast when an animal gets older.
So they are slaughtered at between 6 and 12 months, because that’s the time where the growth slows down too much.
No point in having a 30% heavier animal if it takes 2x as long to get to that point.
Totally, I didn’t realize they grew so fast. And in my head a lamb is like a baby. Guess not really.
Yeah, it’s like with the human term “child”. A child is anything from birth until age 12 or so. There’s quite a bit of a difference in that age range.
For sheep, a lamb is anything up to roughly a year.
In fact, sheep enter puberty at ~3-4 months, so a lamb will usually be slaughtered during puberty.
America is not the world, and Gaza has been in a constant state of resistance.
@AntiBullyRanger they better remain peaceful. They don’t want to give the meatpacker an excuse to harm them
