[dude with glasses in a communist t-shirt, arguing] I’m the only leftist here, your opinions are TRASH
[dude holding a theory book on smug, arguing] Read theory you losers, you’re all WRONG
[dude in an anarchist hoodie, arguing] Nuh-uh, I’m the only leftist here, you’re SHITLIBS
[the three dudes are now caught in a cartoon fight, glasses gone flying, punches everywhere, while a firing squad of nazis are targeting them with rifles]
[a confused nazi asks] Why… why are they still arguing?
Ok seriously, on a comic level, I just cant stop looking at the action bubble of that fight and just love it. Would look so good on a shirt or pin. Its got classic pop art vibes.
You caught me: I spent a lot of time working on getting that bit juuuust right because because I’m going to get it printed on a mug and gift it to a couple people who’ll love it. Glad you liked it, it means I did it right!
Making t-shirts and merch is my sidequest when drawing smuggies. I don’t sell them, it’s just for self-wear, I’ve got an entire wardrobe of them by now. The one I’m wearing today :
It was the glasses and the little lightning bolts that gave it away as to all the work put into it. Honestly if you put it on a mug I’d say still leave the nazi and the punch line on a parallel line. It really hits.
And making your own punk/pop art wearables is very classic and if you havent heard Of them your style reminds me a bit of OSGEMEOS though far less surreal.
You not to are immune propaganda
Jokes aside I’d wear that outside lol
Comma splice all 'round. 3/3.
A professor in college once said something that stayed with me. He said that “bad ideologies will always find ways to self implode”.
This stuck with me because it’s true. Good ideologies tend to be pragmatic and flexible, and so they’re able to adapt and evolve. However, bad ideologies tend to be more rigid and focus mostly on theories and ideals, and therefore they’re unable to adapt or evolve. Far left ideologies firmly fall in the latter category which is why they are where they are.
Why are you all trying to have a serious discussion under a comic strip?
Where else should we have a serious discussion?
In a comic strip club.
You can try to have a serious discussion where you want but don’t expect to get anything much serious out of comic strips and memes.
deleted by creator
He shoots the liberal twice and then drinks marx cum
I’m anti authoritarian and anti right. Tankies are leftists that I have no interest in getting along with. They are just as excited to be holding the gun in this comic
They would also tell me to my (virtual) face that they think my country has no right to exist, so that too makes it pretty hard to have any sort of productive collaboration.
No communist thinks any country has a “right to exist”.
This “anti-authoritarian” recently called for mass execution of their enemies.
Me? Is this because I said the SS should have been executed?
Are you now going to argue that that isn’t an authoritarian act because it was justified? Because, guess what, every “authoritarian” believes their actions are justified
Protecting Jewish and other minorities rights to live and safety is not an authoritarian act. It is in fact protecting the most vulnerable’s liberty. Anti authorization is not lawless. You are a very weird little person and I have no interest in trying to convince you Nazis are bad. I hope you can figure that one out on your own
I believe what @BrainInABox@lemmy.ml is getting at is that all states are authoritarian, and that there are positive and negative uses of authority. Executing SS officers is a positive use of authority. Since all states are an extension of the ruling class, it is better for that ruling class to be the proletariat, rather than the bourgeoisie, and for the proletariat to use its authority to oppress the bourgeoisie and gradually sublimate capital until all production is collectivized, class ceases to exist, and by extension the state withers away, leaving only administration, management, etc.
No I’m pretty sure they pulled something from another post to try to misrepresent it because they’re a bitter terminally online loser. That is a very generous interpretation though
I’m saying it because I’ve seen them make the same argument, as I have done myself, in different ways.
Yes, leninists are nominally on the left. Nominally. However throughout history most similar ideologies have consistently exterminated executed and oppressed everyone that ever disagreed with them. Allies or not. Left or right. Which makes them authoritarian and untrustworthy first. Left at their convenience.
As an anarchist, I have no major beef with actual communist. While I will disagree a lot with demsoc or socdems. I have no issue allying with them where we agree. Because even though we disagree, on the things we agree on. I know they are just as committed, and won’t turn on us the moment it’s convenient.
But I’m all too familiar with the type that behave like the comic. I think we all are. Anyone using the term shitlib or blue maga for instance.
As an anarchist
You aren’t an anarchist though, you’ve never actually expressed anarchists beliefs: you’re a hard core DNC supporter and liberal. There’s a reason your main complaint is people using terms like “shitlib” and “bluemaga”, because those are what you are.
I do it all the time. Done it several places in this thread even. Though lying and dishonesty from a joke like you. Who’s shitty hot takes are regularly posted on and laughed at in many communities. That’s completely on brand.
For every weak and tepid bit of support I’ve ever given the DNC during the presidential election. I could give you 10 to 13 calling them out. Because I do it all the time. However terminally online little trolls like yourself aren’t interested in facts or reality. And your disapproval is a badge of honor.
I do it all the time.
I literally never see it, but I do often see you saying things that are explicitly incompatible with anarchism.
Who’s shitty hot takes are regularly posted on and laughed at in many communities
“We make fun of you in our secret tree house that you aren’t allowed in” is not the sick burn you think.
I could give you 10 to 13 calling them out.
And for every one tepid, qualified criticism of the democrats you offer, I could you give 20 of you viciously tearing into the left for not supporting the democrats enough.
However terminally online little trolls like yourself aren’t interested in facts or reality. And your disapproval is a badge of honor.
Oh my god, go back to Reddit you insufferable dweeb. You’re really doing the “facts and logic” bullshit?
Damn, this is some serious beef if y’all are taking it between posts.
Surely internet arguments are siloed to the post. I literally remember none of the usernames of people I’ve had arguments with haha
Exactly, all authoritarians (far left/far right) can suck a big fat one. They are always the best boot lickers.
Yes, Unity cannot be enforced. Unity can only coexist with consent. And those that would violate consent to enforce Unity actually despise both.
This person has previously advocated for hanging people for treason.
Now make a comic about the redfascists shooting anarchists, or the (I am assuming leftcom) shooting anarchists.
Definitely more of a problem online where everyone is competing to be “right” as if there is any one actual answer.
Even empathetic people still want simple answers and are willing to be pretty cruel to protect theirs.
Oh also really funny comic, love the punchline timing. Can really feel it.
Thanks a lot! 💝
The only thing that matters is policy, I’ll work with anyone as long as it’s toward an egalitarian society with wealth redistribution.
Labels are nice for classifying, but not for executing. I don’t care if you identify as leftist, or liberal, or progressive; I care if you support good policies.
hear, hear
The issue is that you’re a minority in your camp. Broadly speaking, the left sees compromise as weakness, neutrality as cowardice, working with opposition towards a common cause as treachery. These are all symptoms of purity testing, and it’s the reason why the left in so many places is completely paralyzed.
How do you know that isn’t confirmation bias? We have no idea how many leftists there are that see purity testers and decide to not engage.
It’s a similar to MAGA in a way. MAGA’s biggest problem, as an ideology, is that it revolves around blind loyalty to a single idiot and therefore the entire movement starts and stops with his whims, no matter how contradictory, damaging, or nonsensical. You could say it’s confirmation bias that I have this opinion, but I think given recent events, this opinion does have a basis of fact to it. The same applies to the left when it comes to purity testing. It’s really not hard to see how prominent purity testing is in leftist discourse.
It’s really not hard to see how prominent purity testing is in leftist discourse.
That’s not what I’m asking, I’m saying you can’t judge now many people are not engaging in purity testing.
You could say it’s confirmation bias that I have this opinion, but I think given recent events, this opinion does have a basis of fact to it
That’s exactly what confirmation bias is. “All the toupees I see are bad, therefore, all toupees are bad.” Confirmation bias with a basis of fact to it, still completely ignoring the toupees you don’t notice.
That’s not what I’m asking, I’m saying you can’t judge now many people are not engaging in purity testing.
That’s a moot point. First of all, I’m not casting judgement, I’m simply pointing out the state of leftist unity. You can’t deny that purity testing is a huge element in leftist discourse, and if you are going to anyway then you’re simply not being honest. It doesn’t matter how self identifying leftists do or don’t purity test, the point is that enough do where it’s a cornerstone of leftist culture.
That’s exactly what confirmation bias is. “All the toupees I see are bad, therefore, all toupees are bad.” Confirmation bias with a basis of fact to it, still completely ignoring the toupees you don’t notice.
That’s not what confirmation bias is. Confirmation bias is when you actively seek out information that support your preexisting beliefs. My opinion is not confirmation bias, but a simple observation.
First of all, I’m not casting judgement
boy you really aren’t understanding what I’m saying if you think that’s how I was using “judge”
I’ll work with anyone as long as it’s toward an egalitarian society with wealth redistribution.
Okay, but here me out? What if we just privatize the mechanism of wealth redistribution? Also we’re going to be spending a bunch of money on foreign wars, but don’t worry - this time the people were fighting are ontologically evil, we promise. Yes, we will have to make deep cuts to social services in order to pay for the war (while still running enormous deficits because haha, psych, deficits don’t matter), but it will be vital to get the Moderate Conservative on board with our program.
Also, we control every branch of government, but we still need to compromise with fascists in the opposition.
Okay, why are you leaving? You’re clearly not serious about progressive reforms.
And STOP SAYING NICE THINGS AND CHINA! This is a red line we will not tolerate!
You know what? You’re not serious. We’re forming a coalition with Liz Cheney. See you in the losers bracket next year.
…
You’re the reason we lost control of the government.
…
Okay, now stop voting for a popular leftist mayor, or we’ll burn this whole party down.
Yeah, but the question ultimately lies in how many bad and straight up harmful policies are worth the small step toward an egalitarian society? Where does it become ignoble to vote for one policy, when there are ultimately many more harmful ones outweighing the positive? Because it’s kinda rare that we get to vote on policy. We vote for people, with the vague promise of policy ideas that face an uphill battle and watering down— not to mention the straight up bastardization of those good policies, turning them into terrible ones.
I wish it were so black and white as us getting to vote on policy. The policymakers surely seem to be unable.
See the comments for a bunch of examples
Still looking for a single leftist here who claims they support communism. I constantly see it being attributed to the left, but in real life scenarios I just don’t see it, only in memes, unless you meant socialism, which is a healthy system of every country, including US.
How does one get to be so ignorant, but also so confident about it?
I’m a communist, I support communism. Socialism isn’t welfare, it’s a transitional status towards the gradual sublimation of private property. The US is firmly capitalist and is in no way socialist, socialism isn’t “when the government does stuff.”
Sorry if I don’t want to ally with people who constantly talk about killing other leftists (aka all of lemmy.ml).
Lazy strawman, used to justify punching left
Yeah, no, I’m not listening to one word of whatever bs you’re spouting.
Clearly. If you actually listened to what the people you’ve arbitrarily declared to be The Enemy say, you wouldn’t be able to make up lazy strawmen about what they believe.
Lazy strawman, used to justify punching left.
The antidote to infighting in my experience is organizing in ideologically diverse spaces. I’ve organized with liberals and all types of different leftists. It has left me with the perspective that all these people are good people that just want better for the world. It’s hard to get angry at them once you know them. Per usual the solution is to touch grass.
The antidote to infighting in my experience is organizing in ideologically diverse spaces.
You are saying (correctly) that we need to organize in ways that appeal to more median voters, moderates, liberals and even conservatives around much broader initiatives that appeal to more populist ideas like wealth inequality, social programs to help poor neighborhoods, rebuilding infrastructure and creating more livable communities.
But people who read this are going to translate it as:
“They’re saying I should reach out to the Green/Primitivist Anarchists I banned from my discord server” or “Maybe we should include the Orthodox Marxist–Leninists even though we hate them”
Or even worse: “HOW DARE HE SUGGEST I COMPROMISE WITH MY OPPRESSORS I WILL RIP THROATS OUT”
We all have to live next to each other even if we get the best policy results and I think everyone on either side forgets this. This isn’t centerism, this is understanding that we have to rebuild together even if we don’t share objective realities, we have no choice in the matter. I think too many people get stuck in their algorithmic ideology bubbles and think “the revolution/race war is coming, and everything will be great after.”
Nobody is coming. Nobody is going to make it better. There is no secret cabal or underground movement, what we see is what we get and if we want it better, we need to get a LOT better about getting our shitty emotions under control, learning to socialize and using our energy wisely.
Amazing posts! This is the correct approach. 99.9% of people want the same thing salvo’s all the time, it’s tiny issues that divide us and we’ve allowed that divide to grow and grow. People surround themselves with echo chambers and become more and more extreme hating each other and just making things worse.
We have an enemy. We always have. The mega rich. The billionaires, the grifters, those taking advantage of other people. That’s who we need to go after.
Can we smoke weed instead? It’s also green.
How does that work in the opposite direction, though? Republicans are protecting pedophiles and labelling truth as opinion, all whilst dehumanizing fellow Americans.
Tell me, how does one meet in the middle with such a monster?
You pretend, for a little while, then slowly introduce truth to them drip by drip. Like an undercover propaganda agent.
Since that’s probably what they’re doing to us.
This strategy is dishonest though. We cannot use all the same methods of the far right and ruling class.
There’s a conflict of interest between wanting people to think critically and then lying to them and only slowly letting them learn parts of a truth. In another example, you can’t have a democracy when all parties try to deceive the voters. That will damage the concept of democracy and the existing supposed democracy.
There is also the danger of falling your own rhetoric and propaganda. Prime example of this is how fascism was created. Mussolini actively engaged in nationalist pro-war propaganda as he thought the continued war would lead to the conditions necessary for socialist revolution. He wasn’t wrong about that as then revolutions broke out in several successors / breakaways of the Russian Empire, in Germany and in Hungary. But eventually he fell to his own propaganda and created fascism.
I’ve seen this type of tactic really well displayed in this video by SquidTips.
This man talked to a fucking Proud Boy wearing a rainbow shirt that said in large letters “GAY” on it with a button that had the hammer and sickle in trans colors, mentioned his partner was trans, and got the guy to agree with him on the fact that he should be focusing on the class war rather than the culture war.
Even Proud Boys and people on the far, far right still think that what they’re doing is good for society. You don’t have to convince them to “stop being evil, switch to being good” you just have to convince them that “this is a more effective method at making society better than what you currently believe is the best.”
Will it work for everyone? Of course not. Some people are just going to be too far gone for you to reach, but there’s a lot more people than you might think that could be swayed, despite what the flood of media coverage of the extremes of society can make you believe.
I’ve found that even if you do this, it doesn’t really alter their behavior. A moment of consensus is never going to be enough.
People need to treat this kind of stuff like breaking someone from a drug addiction or helping someone lose weight. Without addressing the lifestyle factors that drove them down that path, you’ll never get them to actually change.
That’s why the brainwashing is so terrifying. People can fall into it pretty quickly and then it can take years and years to deprogram them.
Fair enough, though I do think this can still help with any broader approach to changing their overall mentality.
A moment of consensus on its own might not be enough to sway someone, but if they hear someone try and contradict what they had recently agreed on, it can then make them feel more cognitive dissonance, and potentially make them at the bare minimum just stop and think for a second.
If someone else is later trying to sway them in some way, it’s going to be easier when that person says something, and they can think “I remember saying something similar” rather than “this is the opposite of what I already believe.”
Plus, there’s also just the sort of “exposure therapy” factor to it, as well. A lot of people are radicalized to believe that the “opposing side” is pure, limitless evil, and that they hate you and want you dead, so just interacting with them can be enough to help slowly deradicalize them.
For example, this Pew Research article states, regarding the likelihood of people to support trans people’s existence:
“Though Republicans who know a trans person are more likely than Republicans who don’t to say gender can be different from sex assigned at birth, more than eight-in-ten in both groups (83% and 88%, respectively) say gender is determined by sex at birth. Meanwhile, there are large differences between Democrats who do and do not know a transgender person. A majority of Democrats who do know a trans person (72%) say someone can be a man or a woman even if that differs from their sex assigned at birth, while those who don’t know anyone who is transgender are about evenly split (48% say gender is determined by sex assigned at birth while 51% say it can be different).”
But of course, that isn’t just limited to acceptance of people by gender. It also applies to race, social and economic status, recipients and non-recipients of welfare programs, people working in different industries, etc.
Again, not saying it’s at all some magic universal way to change someone’s mind, or that on its own it’s necessarily a factor that can override their overarching condition, (hell, that quote from before shows that it had a much smaller impact on republicans than democrats even given the same exposure) but the more and more this happens, the stronger and stronger an effect it has overall, and I’d say that alone makes it worth doing.
True. And I’d expect you’d need fewer of these moments for younger people than older ones. Every little bump might be the one that diverts someone to a different path. I know it hasn’t worked well on my older family members, but it was those kind of moments that helped my diverge from my religious upbringing when I was younger.
There aren’t enough showers in the world to wash off the shame of any part of that interaction.
The truth about many republicans, is that they want good things for society as well. However they are some of the most gullible, ignorant, uneducated, even miseducated people you will ever care to meet.
It is possible to reach them. But it is one of the most Herculean tasks you will ever undertake. One of the hardest parts of it is to avoid triggering their programming. Starting small with basic concepts you can both agree on. And working from there.
It is possible to reach them. But it is one of the most Herculean tasks you will ever undertake.
If we’re talking about the stereotypical cartoon characters that you see hired by Jubilee to drive up hate and “engagement” then yes, they are real and they are almost impossible to exist around.
But they’re not the majority of people who identify as “conservative” or to be more correct, they don’t tend to identify as anything. The large swath of America’s conservative movement has been just uninformed people who work all day and night and don’t even have time to watch the news and believe earnestly that one out of five people are now trans and they’re trying to shape public policy… because this is the reporting they see on their two hours of downtime they get on Sunday night while scrolling Facebook. These are the tens of millions of people who say “I didn’t know who to vote for, I would have voted for Bernie if he ran, but I picked Trump just to see if he would be better than Harris, at least he’s gonna do something about [problem X].”
If you want to change people and reach hearts and minds, you become better at socializing, you make people like you, then you introduce actual progressive politics to them slowly and gently, starting with class-consciousness. Teach people where their tax money goes first and you will create Marx’s greatest warriors in a week.
I was a conservative, I found my way on my own but I have reached many people, I have turned many people to community consciousness and equality and even equity, because I know what it really looks like, I understand that the stupid unwashed masses just need guideance and they fall so very fast.
Oh God yes Jubilee and that surrounded bs. Though the recent one with Jordan Peterson was somewhat cathartic. Yeah they get some of the most toxic ones.
Yep the majority of them are more like my brother-in-law or my SO. She at least realized back in February the mistake she made. Though I can understand it. As a military daughter who spent her life going from Base to Base as her father moved them around the world. Republican bullshit is sort of ingrained in her family. And she doesn’t actually engage with a lot of the news personally. Instead it gets filtered to her through family.
Brother-in-law came from a privileged bougie family. They own a number of stores in the area. All the fancy tchotchkies as a child. Summers and other regular holidays throughout the year at the lake. Started out from 3rd and thought he made a home run. With a very similar story. Hereditary republicanism. No critical thinking. For One Shining Moment talking about how Democrats and Republicans both suck. On which we could agree. Only to inevitably return back to the Republican talking points. That situation is a whole other shit sandwich unfortunately though.
Just as a tangent, Jubilee and ALL the related content-farmers on Youtube, Tiktok and other social media platforms are radically skewing our own perceptions as well as that of the right. They are the enemy of our better tomorrow.
We’re all getting lost down ideological, algorithmic bubble-worlds but the worlds look so different it’s hard for us to identify that we’re also being manipulated.
This is another area you can find common-ground with the right, and a way to get them to start realizing they’re being played and cucked by corporate elites. (Use that language.)
Absolutely. None of us are immune to propaganda or our own biases.
How do you find common ground when “wanting good things for society” to them means “enslaving all the n****** and killing all the f******”?
It’s shockingly easy to reach people of different political ideology if you view them as humans. Don’t interact with the people who have punisher tattoos and roll coal, but that’s not everyone right of center. Most conservatives are just ill-informed working people with no emotional intelligence or no capacity to care about larger problems than their next utility bill and resent progressive messaging because they’re struggling so hard.
You can break through with class consciousness, almost every conservative I’ve talked to, and turned, started with educating them where their tax money goes, so get educated yourself how the tax code works, what the federal budget actually looks like, what your state’s work laws are and such, and teach them why they can’t afford food AND electricity some months.
You also need to be social and hospitable, do not have the intention of changing people, have the intention of teaching ONE thing and stick to it. This is what Bernie did for decades.
They think that “those people” must be controlled and enslaved even for their own good. They have been programmed and indoctrinate so deeply they actually believe that those people are the problem. That it wasn’t systems Etc that kept them disadvantaged and down. But somehow something in there very being
Similar to those sneaky manipulative immigrants. Who are on the whole often far more abiding than your average American citizen. Somehow thinking they have forced employers to pay them less and take advantage of them just to hurt law abiding americans. It’s not logical, it’s honestly fucking insane. But a lot of it comes from a similar place. They are hurting too. Much like the rest of us. They just can’t see everyone else. It’s always about them. So the best way to start in on them. Is to point out how the exact same systems have victimized them. And how those they support have enabled and supported it.
Don’t get me wrong there are absolutely many you are shitty people to their core. Whom you shouldn’t bother with. The plenty of them have no concept of class 4 or how much they are being manipulated by Elite bourgeoisie. They just want things to be better. But have no clue about what that would look like or how to go about it. Often times having been completely indoctrinated against it.
The opposite is the case. What worked historically is organizing in an ideologically united platform.
Vanguard parties won revolutions. Ideologically diverse big tent organizations have always eventually broken apart and none has brought a revolution thus far.
And working with liberals has never been a good idea. They’re not a part of the left, they belong to a right wing ideology. That would be like saying we should work together with Nazis, because after all they have socialist in their name.
Grass is dangerous, specially if you have allergies. My advice is to never touch grass!
LOL as someone with significant autoimmune issues this rings to true.
this is terminally online behavior. Marxists I’ve run into in actual organizing work are generally pretty chill and more interested in the work than trying to tell me I have the wrong opinion.
Anyone complaining about “tankies” when there’s actual Nazis around is doing their work for them.
You’re from .ml, your opinion on tankies is coming from inside the house.
Frankly history has shown what happens to leftists who side with tankies. I for one will never be making that mistake again.
You’re from .ml
I’m an anarchist, I have done anarchist organizing for years.
I’m not going to argue on the validity of that, but you’re using .ml; Where the dev-admins themselves deny genocide and spout transphobic hate.
I can’t take anything you say in good faith if you willingly use that space.
I’m trans and not a fan of what nutomic has said either, but have had no issues with any of the other admins. I certainly haven’t seen those comments reflect in how they moderate, I even got made a mod here because I was calling out and reporting transphobia.
If he says anything like that in a comm I control I’ll be banning him myself though.
Lol, in a post condemning leftist infighting, people are up voting people attacking other leftists for being from the wrong instance
No, we are attacking people for hanging out in an
Naziauthie genocide denying transphobe bars.I’m more interested in top vs bottom than left vs right.
I’m more interested in top vs bottom
Yeah man, .ml is definitely the ruling class. For sure.
No. I’ve seen marxist-leninists, maoists, and anyone in that area of thought arguing the following:
- LGBTQ+ identities are bourgeois degeneracy
- Trans people are a capitalist invention to divide workers
- Nazis have a point when it comes to nationalism
- Assad and Putin are leftists
- Anarchism has never been tried successfully (because every time someone tried they got betrayed by MLs and executed by them for wrongthink)
- Animal Farm is capitalist propaganda
- Killing millions of people is necessary for a better world
- States are 100% necessary for the development of socialism
- China is communist or will be communist by 2050
- Ukraine is a Nazi state who deserves to be invaded
- Russia taking children from Ukraine and relocating them is just them being nice and removing them out of the warzone
- Anarchists are all children who don’t know better
- The socialist state must uphold “traditional values”
- Stalin exclusively killed Nazis
- The only valid leftist theory is the one that argues Marxism-Leninism is correct
- “Socialist” police are a good thing because they don’t serve capital, they serve the people
- Leftists who don’t agree with us are enemies of the revolution and should be enslaved because they will attempt to overthrow our successful socialist state
If you think ANY of those arguments are valid for leftism, then I’m sorry, but I don’t want you around me.
Lol. Please present a single example of someone actually holding these views. This is the most obviously nonsense strawman in history, but everyone here will upvote it anyway because it lets them punch left.
One of the Lemmy Devs was saying that being transgender was promoted by the bourgeois
Now do the rest
This is literal ruling class propaganda. No Marxist or Marxist-Leninist is against LGBT, thinks Nazis or nationalism has a point, claims Putin is leftist, etc.
Stop trying to stir division, astroturf.
How about I talk about every time Marxist-Leninists betrayed other leftists and executed them? It’s an extensive fucking list.
Also, just look it up. You will find examples of what I said within minutes. But if you wanna be lazy, go ahead.
You’re just an astroturf. You are what’s a stop to any temporary left unity, not those who you accuse with ridiculous strawmen.
I’m not uniting with people who will kill me later. We’ve done that multiple times. Your ilk always betrays us.
Saying this while shaking hand with Hitler, voting for the Nazi’s enabling act.
“Heh I’ve really shown those socialists this time.”
Sounds like you’re the one betraying us
You’re literally the pink guy on this comic.
Is possible, just maybe, that you’ve been talking to trolls posing as communists, rather than actual communists? Because that’s what it sounds like.
Those people were not being ironic, no. I think it’s just a phenomenon that is excessively more common amongst internet MLs. Real life MLs are okay for the most part. Internet MLs are pretty much a cult that will try to take over ANY leftist community or be the dominant form of leftist discourse through any means necessary and will excessively push propaganda from literal fascists because they happen to be against liberals.
All I’m saying is that an embarrassing amount of leftists are terminally online and unable to do anything to try to push leftism other than argue with liberals online and spout hate towards those they see as “betraying” leftism. Those people don’t actually do any organization IRL, which to me is a blessing… but sometimes that doesn’t work. Brazil, and by extension all of South America, has a very bad problem with MLs dominating online AND IRL discourse, making it hard for other forms of leftism to be considered or even debated in good faith.
“those people” aren’t real, you just made them up so you can punch left
Are you saying nutomic is a troll?
Most communist don’t identify as that because of the way leninist and Maoist have soiled it.
Nutomic has not said those things: now you’re straight up lying to justify left punching.
I don’t want to put you out, but if you’ve got actual links to him saying dodgy stuff, then please could you show me?
I’m about ten minutes into reading through his Reddit comments and he’s not even said anything political. One of the most recent comments was him replying to an accusation of creating the federated wiki alternative for right-wing purposes, which is confusing me even more.
He’s specifically telling people which instances they can join that block lemmygrad.
He doesn’t seem that extreme. If you can provide something, it’d really be appreciated, because from looking at his posts so far, he seems a nice enough guy.
Edit - never mind, I think I’ve found what you’re referring to. I’ll look through them properly in a little bit.
I’m not so focused to keep lists Etc myself. However if you are interested in learning a bit more about it all. There are actually a few communities dedicated to it. Don’t just take anything there as gospel though. Critical thinking is always good to employ. And even then it might just come down to who you decide you want to believe. However massive amounts of hypocritical behavior to me would indicate less trustworthiness.
Meanwhileongrad has a lot of it. Just bear in mind. Where people will stand is often more about what they do than even what they say.
So no, he didn’t say that, you’re just lying
Appreciate the info! Thank you.
Anytime. And as to your edit on the previous message always. Never just assume things to be true.
I have literally never run into anyone in real life who says any of these as any form of communist, other than ‘communist’ parties full of pensioners or maga communists.
spoiler
- LGBTQ+ identities are bourgeois degeneracy
- Trans people are a capitalist invention to divide workers
- Nazis have a point when it comes to nationalism
- Assad and Putin are leftists
- Killing millions of people is necessary for a better world
- The socialist state must uphold “traditional values”
- “Socialist” police are a good thing because they don’t serve capital, they serve the people
- The only valid leftist theory is the one that argues Marxism-Leninism is correct
- Stalin exclusively killed Nazis
Anarchism has never been tried successfully Animal Farm is capitalist propaganda States are 100% necessary for the development of socialism China is communist or will be communist by 2050 Ukraine is a Nazi state who deserves to be invaded Russia taking children from Ukraine and relocating them is just them being nice and removing them out of the warzone Anarchists are all children who don’t know better
Real life marxists tend to be okay, I don’t mind them. But, online those people literally try to dominate ALL discourse in leftism to the point where every single contact people have with leftists is someone who believes those things unironically.
No, you’re just strawmanning
They never said RL. That is a very specific and self aware cop-out. You know as well as we do, the ml servers are known for this for good reason.
Being fully transparent .world has their shit heads too. As do most other servers. However to the best of my knowledge they tend not to be administrators etc. 🤷♂️
They never said RL.
My original comment at the start of this thread was:
this is terminally online behavior. Marxists I’ve run into in actual organizing work are generally pretty chill
This is in a thread about getting murdered IRL by fascists while bickering. I think real life is relevant.
I then get the litany of online behaviors that people engage in, including a lot of stuff that has no basis in reality outside of trolls and crypto-fascists.
The shit I get from some people because of what instance I happen to use is literally the thing depicted in the comic though:
I can’t take anything you say in good faith if you willingly use that space.
At some point actually fighting fascism requires realizing that it’s a lot easier to work with communists and anarchists despite whatever disagreements you have, because as different ideologically as we may be, that distinction doesn’t matter to our enemies.
First I agree that marxists are generally chill it’s the hyphenated ones that typically are not. And because we can agree on that. I think we should be able to agree that they aren’t who is being pictured above in the comic.
Perhaps it was misunderstanding, perhaps it was talking past each other. Either way fair enough.
Others get the same treatment. I can count plenty of times where I’ve been told similar because I post from a .world domain. The difference being, of course correct me if I am wrong. That our administrators don’t tend to be as problematic. It isn’t 2019 anymore. ML isn’t the only server. If you are focused on organization and outreach. Maybe it’s worth considering finding a new instance that would would help in fostering that.
As I syndicist I absolutely gave some thought about joining an instance that better reflected my sensibilities. Though some recent events have definitely made me reconsider on that. I honestly think I’m happy an a much more diverse platform. Even if on the fediverse our diversity is pretty homogenic.
If you are focused on organization and outreach. Maybe it’s worth considering finding a new instance that would would help in fostering that.
I’m not trying to be glib, I don’t think any instances are good for that, I use other platforms with more reach for that sort of thing.
I come here because I can see what other anarchists and Marxists are saying about the news and shoot the shit with them. Plus I can access the largest trans instances from here, I don’t really have any ambitions beyond that.
Fair enough. I can do that as well. Just without all the domain baggage. And if it is something that bothers you. It’s something to look at. Something I saw you actually cop to elsewhere on the topic.
course correct me if I am wrong. That our administrators don’t tend to be as problematic
You are wrong, one hundred percent wrong. But you already know that the administrators of .world are Zionist liberals, but you don’t care because you agree with them.
bLuE nO mAtTeR wHo unless it’s an actual progressive 😮💨
Yeah, pretty much this.
Going over the comments I already see boat loads of people completely missing the point where right wing extremism is taking hold thanks in part due to the constant bickering.
Good old “divide and conquer”.
