The phenomenon of sovereign citizens persistently trying to win court cases with their principles, despite a lack of success, is indeed puzzling. On YouTube alone, there are around 5,000 videos showing sovereign citizens facing defeat in the courtroom. These individuals often make claims that have yet to prove successful and frequently end up incarcerated.

Why do people continue to adopt this seemingly futile approach? It’s akin to watching 5,000 parachutists attempt a failed jump from the Eiffel Tower, only for newcomers to keep trying despite knowing, or perhaps ignoring, the inevitable outcome. Despite the growing pile of mangled bodies at the base of the tower, every day people decide to climb up and try for themselves.

The dedication of these individuals is noteworthy; they invest a great deal of time mastering the intricacies of their “sovereign” defense. Yet, it seems that they dedicate little time to researching previous legal outcomes or understanding why their arguments haven’t held up in court historically.

What drives this persistence? Is it a deep-seated belief system that overrides rational analysis, or is there another factor at play that encourages them to keep going despite overwhelming evidence of failure?

  • Jarix@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    If you didn’t reason your way into a problem you aren’t likely to reason your way out of it

  • Red_October@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    To start, it’s a large scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect. They obviously understand very little about the law, if anything, but they think they understand one loophole and the sense of understanding breeds confidence. When you understand nothing, the feeling that you now understand something can be a powerful one.

    Follow that up with a conspiracy-theorist’s mindset and it starts to make more sense. The SovCit thinks they understand this loophole, but that They don’t want to allow it. Who are They? Pick one. The Deep State, Corporate Elites, Rogue Judges, whoever it is that the SovCit feels has the power and will to ignore the rules just to personally thwart that SovCit’s stunningly clever application of the law. Now, their case isn’t failing because literally everything they thought they understood about the law is wrong, it’s because that Judge is willfully ignoring the law in an abuse of power specifically intended to put a stop to this. It’s not that the SovCit was wrong to think their signature on legal documents was meaningless because they wrote “Rights Reserved” beside it, the Deep State just doesn’t want people to know that’s how you avoid consequences!

    Finally, wrap it all up with mythical “experts” and a self propagating network. One person trying all that shit alone might realize they don’t actually know what they’re doing, but they’ll select their contacts to surround themselves with people who will reassure them that if the first letter of the name on that legal document is capitalized it actually means a shadow-account created at birth and not the biological person. They’ll get support to help them overcome their doubts, fed by rumors of a friend of a friend who totally got it to work, or someone who got away with a warning on a traffic stop because they didn’t recognize the cop’s jurisdiction, or a friend’s cousin who has been using a fake “Private” license plate for months and has never been puled over. None of these experts materialize and provide solid, actionable information in a crisis, but the rumors and support are enough to keep any doubts at bay.

  • nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    7 days ago

    i have a good friend who does this. he truly believes these are ancient documented loopholes in the law that he is exploiting. he calls himself a lawyer and he represents himself in court.

    he’s an honest and legitimately good person, and the things he’s been trying to do are backed by good intentions. he’s a retired veteran, and an activist for progressive social causes. unfortunately he’s in prison now.

  • nucleative@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    The state asserts its sovereignty and backs up the claim with the consensus of the people and a lot of guns.

    A sovereign citizen makes the same claim but fails to convince or compel others to agree.

    They very well might believe in some god-given authority but that’s not how any of this works.

    But maybe an SC will uncover a deeply hidden loophole someday and win an argument. The law affords them the opportunity to try.

  • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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    7 days ago

    It’s the same way people will believe conspiracy theories or trust homeopathic remedies despite all the evidence against them. The world is complicated. Sometimes people think the simple solution must be the correct one, but that’s not really the truth.

  • Tracaine@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Think of how stupid the average person is, then realize half of them are stupider than that. - Carlin

  • Beacon@fedia.io
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    8 days ago
    1. They DO see people claiming success.

    These include scammers, and suckers who don’t want to admit they’re wrong.

    1. Their sovcit actions DO occasionally lead to success.

    The rare success isn’t due to it being valid, but rather because the officials don’t want to deal with a crazy person. For example police sometimes let sovcit people out of getting a ticket because sovcits can be dangerous wackos and the cop just doesn’t want to deal with them. Another example is sometimes a government clerk will actually file an actually useful form to do a thing even when the sovcit tries to file some crazy nonsense form.

    • yarr@feddit.nlOP
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      8 days ago

      Sovcits love to video every single interaction with the police. Certainly if they were having large amounts of tickets or infractions dismissed, they’d be #1 hits on YouTube. Yet, in every single video you can find, it’s a big loss for the sovcits.

      They’d be the first one to advertise all these “wins” against “the system” but they have failed to appear… why is that?

      • Beacon@fedia.io
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        8 days ago

        I’ve done a search on this before and there’s plenty of stuff where cop organizations say sovcits can be armed and dangerous and it’s not worth it for them to engage the person

        • yarr@feddit.nlOP
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          8 days ago

          Again, there’d be loads of videos from the sovcits themselves “Watch me beat this ticket in 20 seconds!!” For people that love to film themselves, you think there’d be so many examples of people getting infractions dismissed if it is as common as you say.

          • Beacon@fedia.io
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            7 days ago

            I specifically said it was rare. And i would bet that if the cop is being filmed then they would be much more likely to follow through on giving the ticket. And the avoidance can happen before there’s a visible interaction with the police, like the cop choosing not to pull over a car that has a sovcit fake license plate

  • bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    8 days ago

    If I had to guess, i think most of it comes down to not wanting to understand how society works, and finding it easier to think everything should come for free to them. If I couldn’t afford my car payments and someone told me that if you’re a sovereign citizen, you don’t have to pay, I could see how desperation could lead people to think they could get out of obligations. There’s also probably a large group of influencers and scammers who are incentivized to spread this misinformation, which is how it spreads.

    It’s also likely that for minor infractions, they’re let off with a warning from an officer who doesn’t want to deal with them, and this emboldens them to think they’re correct in how society functions, until they get an officer who won’t put up with them, or do something so egregious, it can’t be ignored.

  • Hegar@fedia.io
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    8 days ago

    Identities with more rigorous behavior requirements often persist longer. It seems counter-intuitive but the greater the buy-in required, the more appealing the identity seems to be.

    In some weird and deeply human way, displaying your devotion to these doomed and unreasonable defenses probably increases the individual’s status among their sovereign peers. That’s the payoff that we don’t see when we only look at the financial and legal costs.

  • defunct_punk@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    The prerequisite for joining such hyperindividualistic ideologies is the belief that you’re better/more important than others, that the work of others can’t be depended on (“if you want it done right, you’ve got to to it yourself” fallacy mindset).

    So:

    Why do people continue to adopt this seemingly futile approach? It’s akin to watching 5,000 parachutists attempt a failed jump from the Eiffel Tower, only for newcomers to keep trying despite knowing, or perhaps ignoring, the inevitable outcome. Despite the growing pile of mangled bodies at the base of the tower, every day people decide to climb up and try for themselves.

    “Well duh, those people failed because they weren’t me!

    • kadup@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      While what you said is true, you’re neglecting that it’s not entirely based on selfish ideations.

      There are people selling courses and profiting heavily from tricking those people into thinking that these strategies work. They pretend they’ve won cases like this, that the loopholes are real, that many people are singing them praises. The failed attempts are just “the loud minority that screwed up the process”.

  • CrayonDevourer@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    I’m pretty sure at this point that most of them think that Legal jargon is the equivalent to a druidic incantation and they just need to find the right incantation for it all to work in their favor.

    • deafboy@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      Just as “magic spells” use special rhymes and archaic terms to signal their power, the convoluted language of legalese acts to convey a sense of authority, they conclude.

      In a study appearing in the journal of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the researchers found that even non-lawyers use this type of language when asked to write laws.

      “People seem to understand that there’s an implicit rule that this is how laws should sound, and they write them that way,” says Edward Gibson, an MIT professor of brain and cognitive sciences and the senior author of the study.

      https://news.mit.edu/2024/mit-study-explains-laws-incomprehensible-writing-style-0819

  • Hemingways_Shotgun@lemmy.ca
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    7 days ago

    To be clear, there really is no such thing as a “Sovereign Citizen” except in their own brain.

    They believe that there is some hidden loophole that only “smart” people understand that allows them to reap the benefits of being a part of a society without having to be subject to any of its rules; and that that cheat code is accessed via some combination of paperwork that the government keeps hidden from the public.

    Essentially, to them, the social contract (ie. citizens voluntary give up certain rights like the right to speed through red lights, the right to murder, etc… and subject themselves to laws of the state in exchange for that state providing them with roads, infrastructure, stability, prosperity and the right certain inalienable freedoms) is just for suckers who don’t know the correct forms to fill out.

    It’s absolute mind-numbing stupidity of the highest order.