If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?
I know there are certain legal situations where an official marriage changes who has certain rights, but aren’t those same rights available if you make other legally-official decisions E.G. a will or trusts, etc?
I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.
Getting married doesn’t have to cost a lot of money, if a couple chooses to spend a lot on their wedding they’re doing it for that sake, but it’s not necessary.
I got married for free. In my town you can do that on Tuesday mornings. You can even bring up to 6 guests.
Did you not need a marriage license?
I got the marriage license there. It was at the building where my local/city government resides
It doesn’t HAVE to cost so much. The wedding doesn’t cost a lot.
The ceremony and the party are what cost a lot.
But you can go down to city hall, in plain clothes, pay a small fine, fill out some paperwork, bada bing bada boom, married.
But good luck getting 99% of women to give up their dream wedding for a city hall wedding with 1 city appointed witness, and no guests.
Plenty of women don’t care about a “dream wedding”
Why the pointless sexist stereotyping?
A small fee rather than a small fine, surely?
Socially it’s an excuse to party with everyone you love.
Legally it’s only worth it if you have kids, plan to migrate countries, or have shitty immediate family among other things. But if you’re just in a long term relationship with your finances otherwise separated, no kids or end of life concerns, then it can be somewhat detrimental as you’re just inviting the state in to meddle with your life.
This is a shallow and very “I just think about the next few hours” view…
First of all, there are a lot more legal protections to married couples even if no kids are involved. Second, I guess you know when you are going to die so you can be certain there won’t be any end of life concerns, you are certainly immune to accidents, right? But also, you don’t have to be about to die to want your fiance to be allowed in the hospital room with you (which they won’t be if you are unable to provide approval and they are not legally your partner)
The “state” does not meddle in married life either… this is a rednecky thing to say… unless of course you are referring to treating your partner like crap or attempting to deny them any protection they are legally entitled to
Yeah i was half awake, a bit harsh ig.
Maybe a better formed argument is that getting into a marriage legally is way too easy compared to the legal process of leaving one. Even if you have all your things in order and everything is completely amicable the dissolution can be a a very drawn out process, especially if you can’t be present in the state you were married in.
The part about being in a hospital, only applies if the partner is not conscious, otherwise they can consent. Some other counties have another method for this where if you’ve simply lived together long enough those sorts of protections exist. So yeah you have a fair argument in the US. Is it a valid reason for legally formalizing your marriage? That’s up to you and your partner to decide.
I think my major annoyance is that people put emotional value into the legal matter of marriage as though law and the state had some interpersonal value.
a bit harsh ig.
Likely, sorry about that
Maybe a better formed argument is that getting into a marriage legally is way too easy compared to the legal process of leaving one.
This is a completely different point than your original one though. And, while somewhat true, the countries that have strong marriage protections will not save you from a separation even if there is no marriage (more on this below)
The part about being in a hospital, only applies if the partner is not conscious
Or impaired in multiple other ways… but yes, the not conscious part if key because you could be in a medically induced comma to spare you the pain and someone may need to advocate for you in case a decision needs to be made. If you just had minor issues, there would be no problem but we are fending off the worst scenarios, no need for legal protection for minor stuff
Some other counties have another method for this where if you’ve simply lived together long enough those sorts of protections exist.
Correct and those same laws are the ones that basically have you automatically declared “common law” (or whatever preferred term) which makes a separation almost as hard as a divorce (coming back to point 2 above)
Is it a valid reason for legally formalizing your marriage? That’s up to you and your partner to decide.
At the end of the day, yes of course it is for the couple to decide… I just want to make it clear that you do not normally get the same level of protection by just having a will or a power of attorney (or it would be actually worse in those cases) and that people should consider this WAY more than “I don’t need a paper to say I love someone”, that is not what legal marriage is about
Marriage? Why, it’s the greatest weapon in any noble’s arsenal! Let me enlighten you on matters of state and power.
Marriage isn’t about love; that’s a peasant’s fantasy. For those of us who bear the weight of ancient houses, marriage is statecraft of the highest order.
When I wed the second daughter of House Tyrell, I gained three castles along the Roseroad and secured my southern border against those Dornish vipers. Her father’s bannermen now answer my call; five thousand spears when winter comes.
Marriage binds blood to blood. When your wife bears your children, you’ve created heirs that unite two powerful lineages. Should some upstart lord challenge either house, they face the combined might of both.
Consider the Lannisters and their gold. A prudent marriage there secures not just coin for your depleted coffers, but access to their formidable fleet. Or perhaps the Arryns, whose impregnable Eyrie would shield your lands from eastern invaders.
Politics shifts like quicksand, but marriage creates bonds that even the most treacherous lords hesitate to break. The realm notices when sacred vows are betrayed, and remembers.
So you ask what’s the point? Power, lands, armies, legitimacy, and the future of your house. What greater purpose exists for those of us born to rule?
Now pass the wine. These matters of dynasty have made my throat dry.
Is there a Lemmy hall of fame yet?
There’s at least !bestoflemmy@lemmy.world
Posted!
The point is the legal benefits and publicly declaring your love and commitment, if you care about that.
You can spend as little as you want, if you only care about the legal status. But since you are probably asking about the usual big wedding - it’s really just throwing a party to celebrate the act. It’s not mandatory. Invite people you want to party with and celebrate life in a way you want.
What can suck about it is the peer pressure from parents and other people to do it the way they want, to do it “properly”.
Are you perhaps asking from a US perspective? Or maybe Indian too. I don’t know of any other countries where marriage is expensive really.
We got married in Vegas as a fun thing to do, since we’re Swedish. Legally the difference is extremely small between being “sambo” (co-living) and being married, and we could just as well kept going without getting married.
I didn’t do the marriage thing because of love. I don’t need a piece of paper to tell me that. I did it for the logistical stuff. Buying a house. Having a kid. Combining finances. Life insurance. Health insurance. While all of this could be possible without being married, it’s much easier to have a marriage certificate than to try to prove to everyone all the time that we’re partners. If my husband were in the hospital on life support, being next of kin would simplify so many things. My culture is designed in a way that traditional marriage shapes so many processes. There may be workarounds, but they’re not always simplified and most people may not know how to use them. That can take valuable time that you don’t always have.
This exactly. It’s an easily recognizable legal shortcut to a bunch of systems, rules and privileges that apply to the situation of two people wanting to live their lives together. Doesn’t have to cost much, if anything, and doesn’t have to have anything at all to do with religion or rituals. Can be just two people showing up at the town hall if you want it to be.
Getting legally married is intended to protect the couple under certain circumstances as you suggest. You could attempt to perform the same with other legal means but it would be harder and costlier; like you deciding not buying a car but putting one together yourself.
The notion people get legally married out of love or worse that “a paper does not say I can love a person” seem to just have a 7 year old notion of what marriage is
A wedding can cost almost nothing. I found a very small local poor church and offered them $100 bucks to use the place on a Saturday. I baked a big cake, decorated it plain white. I overnight smoked a brisket, made a pan of Mac and cheese.
Got a friend to officiate, and told our friends and families a month in advance. We told everyone it was a potluck. We got $100 plain rings. My grandmother ended up buying some cool flowers for decorations. A friend played some music on the church speakers.
All in, it probably cost us $400 out of pocket, and we got enough cash from attendees to cover that and pay for us to take off work for the week to just hang out and move in together, staycation style. To be fair, I don’t think either of us would have wanted a vacation style honeymoon, we did that kind of thing later. That first week was a lot of figuring out how to live together, so that took time.
So it’s possible to have a big party with friends and family, but spend very little. Just have everyone bring some food and it’ll work out.
Studies show that folks are less likely to have a happy long term marriage the more they spend on a wedding. It’s a pretty clear correlation that expensive weddings typically make folks more unhappy and starts the relationship off with more financial stress. So, don’t feel bad about being frugal! As long as you are both happy, it can be very inexpensive.
I want someone to marry me again someday. I want someone to stand in front of my friends and family and profess their love and devotion.
I gave up on that dream a couple of years ago.
My grandfather died in the 80s, 20 years later my grandma got a boyfriend, a widower similar to her age, so both in their mid 70s. She once said that she thought she would be alone for the rest of her life and never thought she would be so in love again.
They never married but had 15 beautiful years with each other. What I’m saying is that it’s never too late to find happiness, no matter what that might entail.
That’s really nice to hear, but I’m tired of waiting to find someone that cares for me as more than just a friend. I recognize that I likely will never find that.
As a male, none.
Have been helping people in family court for twenty years. The shift had been catastrophic for marriage from a male risk/reward.
I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.
Getting married doesn’t have to cost virtually anything. Really just the application fee to get a marriage license. The specific price will vary by state, and even by county (within the US, not sure how it works outside). Where I live, you can go to a courthouse and get married for $35.
If you plan to have kids, there are a lot of legal reasons why it’s just a lot simpler to have kids. The same applies without them, to a lesser degree, but with kids it’s just so much more of a hassle to not be married.
You’re right that you can achieve most (maybe even all?) legal benefits of marriage through trusts, wills, etc. But that’s a hell of a lot more work, and the lawyer fees, filing fees, and application fees are almost certainly going to cost you more than a cheap courthouse marriage. Not to mention the added work for yourself.
Beyond all that, though, the single biggest reason I wanted to get married and have a wedding with lots of friends and family was to stand up in front of everyone and profess my love for my (now) wife, let her do the same for me, then have big party with all our friends and family to celebrate it. There’s nothing wrong with spending money to throw a party for something you want to celebrate.
Neither my wife nor I wanted kids but we still got married. The legal aspects you touch on are pretty darned important even without kids in the picture. Health/medical reasons are another huge one. We have a friend who lived with her partner for decades, but never got married. When he fell ill and was hospitalized it was virtually impossible for her to make any decisions, tell the doctors what his wishes were, etc. All because they weren’t legally married.
Jus an fyi, getting married costs basically nothing unless you have a wedding. It literally costs like $55 for the certificate at the court. You don’t have to have a wedding that costs $50K. I know multiple people who literally just had some people over and got pizzas.
Some of my friends got married, and it was just people dressing nicely and meeting at our favourite restaurant to eat a bunch of delicious food. It was awesome.
It can be very, very inexpensive for the costs of a court filing fee and a friend getting an online certification to officiate the wedding.
You get tax breaks while married, and a lot of things in life are easier when you’re married and sharing the same living space, bills, etc. The world has been built to make it more economical and easier.
It’s the getting divorced that’s expensive and sucks. As long as you can avoid doing that, or have a prenup in place, you’re good.
My wife and I met ages ago. We were friends for a while. Went on some dates, and eventually got together. I think we were dating about 8 years before getting married, we knew we were compatible. We didn’t rush anything.
I got married in Vegas, it was a very affordable wedding. That was almost 10 years ago.
If one of us dies, being married is a very easy way to make sure the other person inherits everything they need to survive.
I also see how impressed older people are when we say we are married, it seems so few people get married anymore.
There are so many good reasons to get married. Just be sure before jumping in that both are on the same page of life and goals, compatibility, compromise and understanding, etc.
