TLDR if you don’t wanna watch the whole thing: Benaminute (the Youtuber here) creates a fresh YouTube account and watches all recommended shorts without skipping. They repeat this 5 times, where they change their location to a random city in the US.
Below is the number of shorts after which alt-right content was recommended. Left wing/liberal content was never recommended first.
- Houston: 88 shorts
- Chicago: 98 shorts
- Atlanta: 109 shorts
- NYC: 247 shorts
- San Fransisco: never (Benaminute stopped after 250 shorts)
There however, was a certain pattern to this. First, non-political shorts were recommended. After that, AI Jesus shorts started to be recommended (with either AI Jesus talking to you, or an AI narrator narrating verses from the Bible). After this, non-political shorts by alt-right personalities (Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, etc.) started to be recommended. Finally, explicitly alt-right shorts started to be recommended.
What I personally found both disturbing and kinda hilarious was in the case of Chicago. The non-political content in the beginning was a lot of Gen Alpha brainrot. Benaminute said that this seemed to be the norm for Chicago, as they had observed this in another similar experiment (which dealt with long-form content instead of shorts). After some shorts, there came a short where AI Gru (the main character from Despicable Me) was telling you to vote for Trump. He was going on about how voting for “Kamilia” would lose you “10000 rizz”, and how voting for Trump would get you “1 million rizz”.
In the end, Benaminute along with Miniminuteman propose a hypothesis trying to explain this phenomenon. They propose that alt-right content might be inciting more emotion, thus ranking high up in the algorithm. They say the algorithm isn’t necessarily left wing or right wing, but that alt-right wingers have understood the methodology of how to capture and grow their audience better.
Just anecdotal but I only ever watch duck videos or funny animal videos with occasional other funnies or crazy science things, and that’s still all I ever get. Other days I get plenty of cool music like tesla coils making music or other piano music.
Am I youtubing wrong?
Does this mean youtube preferentially selects alt-right shorts, or alt-right people make more shorts? Or some other thing entirely? Jump to your own conclusion.
YouTube selects what gives YouTube the most views for the longest time. If that’s right wing shorts, they don’t care.
Yeah it sure does. There is no way that garbage should be showing up for me, but yet…
There’s a firefox extension to hide short and another to default to your subscription. Along with ublock, those are the only things that makes youtube usable.
That doesn’t fix the out-of-the-box experience of the platform for millions, if not billions of people. Yes it’s a good step to take individually, but insufficient to deal with the broader issue raised of latent alt-right propagandizing
That and a Revanced patched version of it - or better yet Piped.
I have to get 2 extensions to make youtube better in order to block shorts, disable autoplay, make UI better, and bring youtube dislike button back. This is excluding ublock origin by the way, so I guess 3 or so
Instagram does the same thing with “dark jokes” and really weird ufo and conspiracy videos it really sucks
Not really surprising that short video clips would be used to target people with lower critical-thinking skills and attention spans
I found youtube shorts very annoying, because I have an attention span and can focus on something for more than 30 seconds. But if you right-click the three dots on a few Shorts sections and click Not Interested, youtube gets the hint and stops offering them to you. Win-win!
I do that but every 30 days the short videos come back and then I have to click on the dots again. It’s not difficult but it’s kind of a dirty trick by YouTube. I look forward to something like peertube reaching critical mass. If YouTube continues to abuse their users, gets too spammy, gets too expensive with the paid tier, I think people will jump ship. Peertube isn’t ready for prime time yet.
Yeah I found it annoying enough I just blocked the entire element.
The problem is when channels you subscribe to pump out shorts. I use the Subscriptions page a lot and it has more and more become flooded with junk shorts that I don’t care about and don’t want to watch on my TV.
It doesn’t seem to work for me, I also keep reporting ads and blocking ads, and they keep serving them up to me. So I have decided to disable YouTube on my phone.
I can no longer report ads on my phone.
I kept reporting ads that were obvious scams(buy my book to get rich, this thing will make your PP hard and your girl squirt like a fountain, etc)
Now I don’t get the three dots on ads.
So I guess YouTube likes the scam ads?
Do YouTubers like having AI narrated dick pill ads in front of their videos?
Interesting, I just scrolled through 10 or 15 pages of my youtube feed and there wasn’t a Short to be found. Maybe it takes some time to happen, I forget. Or you might have to click Not Interested more if you’ve already watched a lot of Shorts - I had only watched like 3. and they were accidental.
Also on YouTube mobile i have an adblock on my computer
So you’re saying we need to start pumping out low quality left wing brainrot?
It only must be extremely simplified and evoke emotional reactions. That’s just basic propaganda rules. The brainrot quality of the content is a consequence of the sheer quantity of the content. You can’t make that volume of content and without making fully automated ai slop.
What the experiment overlooks is that there are PR companies being paid to flood YouTube with rightwing content and are actively trying to game its algorithm. There simply isn’t a left-wing with the capital to manufacture that much content. No soros-bucks for ai minions in keffiyehs talking about medicare.
Insanely, that seems to be the play. Not logic or reason, but brainrot and low blows. Which is a bit at odds with the actual desire.
fight fire with fire i guess….
maybe people get on board quicker if they feel the emotions first, and then learn the logic….
one good example is Noam Chompsky: every thing is says is gold, but he says it so slow and dispassionately even people who agree with him find it hard to watch.
Ditch YT
I’ve ditched their algorithm, but I’m not going back to a text only internet. It’s so much more helpful to listen while I drive or follow along with someone’s screen.
I’d like to see the creators get out of youtube and make more money but I can’t say I like patreon much either.
Would be cool to tie fedeverse into non-profit monetization.
I like Youtube (with adblocker) but shorts are pretty trashy. It’s mostly shorts of women as naked as they can get on Youtube without breaking the rules who have purposefully given themselves super camel toes and set the thumbnail for the short to show their camel toe to get people’s attention. And it’s just a front to get you to their OnlyFans.
Strange, I don’t get anything risque, just tech videos and some improv comedy. I still don’t like shorts though. I’m highly tempted to use revanced to take out the shorts section.
I mostly get stuff about parrots and cake decorating.
Yup they have been showing up for me today. Fuck YouTube
Real talk: I’ve been using YouTube without an account and with some ad blocking stuff installed. Based on what I’m seeing, I’m pretty sure the algorithm’s datapoint for me is “He was born with a penis and is ok with that.”
When I lose my better judgement and start scrolling shorts like an idiot, It is fight videos (IRL, movie scenes, UFC and boxing), auditing, Charlie Kirk and right-wing influencers, and the occasional clip from Shoresy on the basis “He might be Canadian too, idk”.
It is noticibly weird, and I have brought it up to my kid who uses an account, is not what Youtube believes me to me, and whose shorts feed is very different.
We do both get that guy who opens Pokemon cards with a catchy jingle, though.
I check friends’ Snapchat stories from time to time, and Snapchat suggests public stories on the same page. I think Snapchat has the same sort of singular data point on me that “this account is likely a straight man”, because most of what they show me are sports clips, woman influencers in revealing clothing, and right-wing influencers talking about culture war stuff. I never view any of that sort of stuff, but it still shows up any time I try to check my friend’s stories. I guess I view public stories so infrequently that they just give me a default generic man feed.
I realized a while back that social media is trying to radicalize everyone and it might not even be entirely the oligarchs that control its fault.
The algorithm was written with one thing in mind: maximizing engagement time. The longer you stay on the page, the more ads you watch, the more money they make.
This is pervasive and even if educated adults tune it out, there is always children, who get Mr. Beast and thousands of others trying to trick them into like, subscribe and follow.
This is something governments should be looking at how to control. Propaganda created for the sole purpose of making money is still propaganda. I think at this point that sites feeding content that use an algorithm to personalize feeds for each user are all compromised.
This discussion existed before computers. Before that it was TV and before that it was radio. The core problem is ads. They ruined the internet, TV, radio, the press. Probably stone tablets somehow. Fuck ads.
The problem is education. It’s a fools game to try and control human nature which is the commodification of all and you will always have commercials and propaganda
What is in our means is to strengthen education on how to think critically and understanding your environment. This is where we have failed and I’ll argue there are people actively destroying this for their own gain.
Educated people are dangerous people.
It’s not 1984. It’s Brave New World. Aldous Huxley was right.
I think we need to do better than just say “get an education.”
There are educated people that still vote for Trump. Making it sound like liberalism is some result of going to college is part of why so many colleges are under attack.
From their perspective I get it, many of the Trump voters didn’t go, they hear that and they just assume brainwashing.
We need to find a way to teach people to sort out information, to put their immediate emotions on pause and search for information, etc, not just the kind of “education” where you regurgitate talking points from teachers, the TV, or the radio as if they’re matter of a fact … and the whole education system is pretty tuned around regurgitation, even at the college level. A lot of the culture of exploration surrounding college (outside of the classroom) is likely more where the liberal view points come from and we’d be ill advised to assume the right can’t destroy that.
I don’t think college education is the source we should be looking at.
Critical thinking skills need to be taught a much much earlier phase.
Oh I agree, no doubt … but teaching critical thinking is not easy
It’s not. But it’s harder the longer you wait. We’ve stopped teaching children because skills like this don’t fit into check boxes that can be marked off. It’s far easier just to train them to memorize test answers. We don’t TEACH anymore (likely because we don’t pay people to). It’s hard work, and the students outnumber the instructors so it’s no surprise we’re struggling. Parents don’t continue the education at home and expect the system to do all the work because they are wasting all of their energy at work.
It’s going to take generations and decades to fix this and we won’t see the results in our lifetime. But we need to start doing things differently if we want things to be better for our descendants. We need to reform education AND create an environment where you don’t need both adults to work 40+ hours a week to support the family.
We need to find a way to teach people to sort out information, to put their immediate emotions on pause and search for information
This entire comment and @whoisearth@lemmy.ca’s comments are so powerful.
I think people have two modes of getting information: digging into a newspaper article and trying to figure out what’s going on and seeing a lurid headline in the tabloid rack. Most people do both ends of the spectrum and a lot of in-between. Modern technology lends itself to giving tabloid-like content while we’re waiting in line for a minute. This is why Tiktok is concerned about being removed from the app store, even though it’s easy to install the app yourself, easier than signing up for a newspaper delivery subscription was. But Tiktok isn’t more like a lurid tabloid that most people would not go two steps out of their way to find, but they might read it waiting in a slow line. I’m hopeful that people will learn to manage the new technology and not keep being influenced by tabloid entertainment.
My GF is a student at the university of TikTok whereas I am very much about traditional media. It’s interesting seeing where both succeed and both fail.
That said, you hit the nail on the head. A video on TikTok about some conspiracy bullshit is no different than seeing Bat Boy on the Weekly World News. The problem to me is not just the increased accessibility of this bullshit but the echo chamber around them that keep you engaged.
Trust but verify should be in everyone lexicon.
sites feeding content that use an algorithm to personalize feeds for each user are all compromised.
Not arguing against this at all because you’re completely correct, but this feels like a key example of governments being too slow (and perhaps too out of touch?) to properly regulate tech. People clearly like having an algorithm, but algorithms in their current form are a great excuse for tech companies to use to throw their hands up in the air and claim no foul play because of how opaque they are. “It only shows you what you tell it you want to see!” is easy for them to say, but until consumers are given the right to know how exactly each one works, almost like nutrition facts on food packaging, then we’ll never know whether they’re telling the truth. The ability for a tech company to have near unlimited control and no oversight over what millions of people are looking at day after day is clearly a major factor in what got us here in the first place
Not that there’s any hope for new consumer protections during this US administration or anything, but just something I had been thinking about for a while
Instagram is probably notably worse, I have a very establish account that should be very anti that sort of thing and it keeps serving up idiotic guru garbage.
Tiktok is by far the best in this aspect, at least before recent weeks.
A couple of years ago, I started two other Instagram accounts besides my personal one. I needed to organize and have more control of what content I want to see at times I choose. One was mostly for combat sports, other sports, and fitness. The second one was just food.
The first one, right off the bat showed me girls with OnlyFan accounts in the discovery page. Then after a few days, they begin showing me right wing content, and alpha male garbage.
The second one, the food account, showed alternative holistic solutions. Stuff like showing me 10 different accounts of people suggesting I consume raw milk. They started sending me a mix of people who just eat meat and vegans.
It’s really wild what these companies show you to complete your profile.
I saw a tiktok video talking about how Instagram starts the redpill/incel stuff early for the young people then they become failures in life at which point they push the guru stuff for “guidance”.
EU and even China has at least made a attempt of holding these companies accountable for the algorithm but US and Canadian government just sat there and did nothing.
For now.
Crazy stuff. So not only does YouTube make you generally dumber, it now is pushing the audience to more Conservative viewpoints because of the “emotional engagement” that keeps 'em watching. and YouTube probably sells more premium subscriptions that way. fuck google!
