- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
The team behind menstrual health and period tracking app Clue has said it will not disclose users’ data to American authorities, following Donald Trump’s reelection.
The message comes in response to concerns that during Trump’s second presidency, abortion bans that followed the overturn of Roe v. Wade in 2022 will worsen and states will attempt to increase menstrual surveillance in order to further restrict access to terminations.
You must log in or register to comment.
Shit which reminds me. Now I have to stop using the app… and delete it.
That is some darkest timeline Abed type stuff.
deleted by creator
I don’t know if they’re already doing this, but they need to find ways to make security so robust that it is architecturally impossible for the business to handover useful data.
And here’s hoping courts continue to allow people to plead the 5th and not fork over passwords. If that protection falls, I don’t know how you’d design a digital workaround that would keep people out of contempt of court charges.
They could do it by not uploading any of the data, or if they do, uploading it encrypted with the only key being on the user’s device or a passcode.
Both are well established ways to secure data, but the company itself would not be able to interact with the data at all past storing it, so any features/revenue there would end.
You can already be compelled to give up biometric data like fingerprint to unlock your phone, I believe. I give it less than a year before SCOTUS extends that to PINs. And yes, I am sure they will find ways to get it out of people. Or if not, at least they tortured you, and that’s what they really wanted.
Assuming we have anything resembling rule of law at that point.
Not a choice they can make, if they have the data then the government can compel them to turn it over
Cool but the proper solution is that they shouldn’t have access to this data at all. It should be either stored locally, or encrypted on their servers. Companies not being able to access their consumer data should be the default.
I don’t know much about menstrual cycles. Wouldn’t it be easier and just as effective to track with pen and paper?
nah. Think about how good computers are at pattern recognition and long term storage for analysis. Far superior to a pen and paper
I laid awake last night thinking if it would be possible to make an elaborate Excel spreadsheet to accomplish this. I need to research more about the specifics of menstrual cycles, but I think it wouldn’t take that much effort. It could be disguised as something else and shared freely, and people could store it locally to ensure privacy.
Do you think Excel=pen and paper?
You guys are talking about the same thing. Excel is a pretty powerful data storage and manipulation app. It excels (heh) at pattern recognition.
No, I don’t think they’re the same. I was taking the knowledge the poster above provided and brainstorming options.
The main service my period tracker provides is a notification telling me “hey, it’s PMS time. If you’re emo it’s ok, it’s probably just hormones and not the real end of the world. You’re also likely to hyperfixate on something. Pull out your knitting a fixate on that, instead of risking fixating on something someone said off-handedly a decade ago that now makes you cry”.
(The message is user-configurable. Mine doesn’t say that verbatum, but that’s the gist.)
Why the hell period data needs to be stored on the cloud?
How much could it weight? A few Kb? Local storage!
I would never trust such data leaving my device when is no need for it whatsoever.
Aren’t there any open source period tracking apps? I’ll do one, it can’t be that hard. An sqlite database patched to a frontend calendar and some basic predictions based on normal scenarios.
Aren’t there any open source period tracking apps?
Many. On F-Droid.
drip. menstrual cycle and fertility tracking (Open-source, non-commercial and leaves your data on your phone.) https://f-droid.org/packages/com.drip/
Drip is a pretty wild name to call your menstrual tracking app.
Everyone says that. Idk what the big deal is
menstrual surveillance
Now that’s a phrase I would’ve never thought I would read.
Why? It’s a logical outcome of the combination of mass surveillance and draconian anti abortion laws. This is the sort of shit the judicial construction of the implied right to privacy was kinda built around stopping. This is just straight up the sort of shit Snowden warned us of.
So yeah, the federal government (and likely state as well), who have the data from your personal devices to understand far more of your sex life than you want your friends knowing, much less your Senator, are able to purchase or subpoena data from menstrual tracking apps and will do as the law tells them to. The law, meanwhile is written by a group of people who are vastly disproportionately elderly men with little to know understanding of any branch of science or medicine. A group notable for comments like the assumption that ecoptic pregnancies can be replanted and that presenting a snowball disproves global warming. The one gynecologist of note to have been in Congress in recent memory being Ron fucking Paul, who incidentally was anti choice.
To sum my previous paragraph to a thesis statement: people who have no idea how bodies work and couldn’t tell a Skene’s gland from a vas deferens and disproportionately think pee comes out the vagina get to decide the rules by which people who know every aspect of your life that they choose to look for decide if your menstrual irregularities are normal or an illegal abortion.
This kind of surveillance should be something every platform fights against. Remember that the government does not own you and they are only entitled to any of your data at all when necessary to uphold the law and under a warrant. Protect your right to privacy or they will use what you do I private to justify stripping you of all your other rights in the name of justice they will at that point no longer uphold.
Every corporation registered under the US law is subject to the US law.
If you relying on a corpo to protect your data… 🤡
No I’m relying on people to protect their own data, I’m saying that platforms should too. Edit: also most of the time they don’t have to turn over anything but do so willingly, they should say no unless presented with a valid warrant.
Corpos are unreliable but yes they should at least pretend not to turn it over.
Unless corpo is using zero knowledge set up, don’t use it is the really the only way to use a corpo service imho
Yeah I think PIA is a golden example here. They’ve got RAM-only servers so they have no data to turn over in the first place.
Pia the third vendor along with proton and mullvad that are considered gold standard?
Does it have it port-forwarding?
Biowink GmbH is probably not a corporation registered under US law. If I had to guess, the government of Germany will not be particularly eager to force them to turn over data to the USA. The Germans take their Datenschutz very seriously.
Great point. Then they can take the hard stance but I doubt they will not to piss off largest consumer market in the world.
They’ve already taken the hard stance. If they roll it back, they will lose the trust of their users.
🤞
I’d still echo the (current) top comment’s advice to use something open source, local, and encrypted.
First I thought “WTF is period data a thing that should concern the government”, but then I noticed we are talking about the future Handmaids Tale country here.
Hey government perverts. Keep out of panties that are not on your own ass or your partner’s. And ask before you dive in. You’re disgusting!
Newsweek has really trash headlines. No one’s asking, yet, so that’s a terrible headline.
(Yes I voted Kamala, and yes I did it for medical autonomy reasons as well as orange potato reasons, Vance reasons, heritage foundation reasons, and Project 2025.)
It’s still a trash headline and pretty standard fare for Newsweek. Why is it trash? Because it’s classic The Boy Who Cried Wolf. When I read this headline, I need it to be real.
Period tracking apps should store no data at all in the cloud.
But how will they make their money mate?
no cloud or get fossed, son.
Seriously how some business makes money doesn’t matter in the context of state surveillance
Is there an open source period tracker that you have contributed to?
There are calendar apps, which should get the job done, assuming your menstrual cycle is pretty regular.
Why would you assume the cycle is regular? It’s a biological process that can vary quite a bit, which is part of why you would want to track it in the first place. There’s also much more to track that just the expected start date of your next cycle. The various tracking apps are quite a bit more involved than just a calendar.
Yeah, I know they’re not necessarily regular, seeing as I’m married to someone with menstrual cycles. I guess I’m just not very familiar with what kind of data a calendar and a spreadsheet can’t solve just as easily.
Actually I’ll agree with you that a spreadsheet could do a lot, but that’s a niche solution. Building a good one requires a fair bit of technical know how, and even using one well requires a lot of understanding.
Some people want convenience of accessing the data between devices.
It’s okay to store stuff in the cloud just make it’s encrypted deeply and thoroughly and that the user is the only person with the key.
There’s absolutely no reason for them to have access to this data.
Yup. I use Tuta for email, and they have a calendar feature that should be more than sufficient. Just set a recurring event for 28 days or whatever your personal cycle is, and you’re good to go! Everything is E2EE, so there’s nothing for the authorities to get.
I’m sure Proton Mail’s calendar feature is equally sufficient here, or you could self-host something like NextCloud and use the calendar that way.
It’s not about having a rigid schedule, but about actually tracking periods and analyzing the data. I’m male and that’s about all I know about it
Eh, a calendar and a spreadsheet should be enough, but I also don’t have menstrual cycles, so what do I know…
I’d imagine it’s the same as personal finance apps. A spreadsheet can be enough, and it is enough for a lot of people, but a custom app can make things easier:
- reducing the friction of keeping track
- built in visualizations
- alerts
- integrating the data with other tools
etc.
I tend to get headaches more frequently at a certain point in my ~monthly cycle, not at the same time I have my period. It’s nice to know it’s coming so I can plan accordingly. Like avoid being on a road trip at that time, or proactively knocking it out with meds before it even starts.
Some people find their cycles affect their energy and recovery a lot, so they adjust their workout plans accordingly. Like knowing when within a cycle estrogen and testosterone are at their peak, versus progesterone.
Aside from just day count between periods, some people track temp, consistency of vaginal fluid, mood, weight, and probably other things depending on their needs.
You actually have your period the same time everytime like in a textbook? That’s sounds pretty nice, first time I heard someone has that. Usually it’s pretty random, like sometimes it’s 20 days sometimes it’s 35 and you have to calculate it with the daily temperature. I’m kinda jealous ngl
I’m a male, but I am married to someone who has periods. And yeah, they’re not textbook, but they’re generally within a couple days. We can both tell when it’s about to happen because my SO’s hormones start going crazy (alternate between angry over small things and affectionate), and like clockwork, the menstrual cycle happens about 2 days later.
But yeah, it’s generally about every 4 weeks, give or take a few days. It used to be all over the place, but now that she’s been better about exercise and diet, it’s a lot more consistent.
Oh that sounds really nice, in that case you really don’t need to use a period app. I have to enter my temperature, cervix condition and (I don’t know the English word for it but you know,) the ‘slime’ condition. Sometimes it’s 6 weeks, sometimes it’s 3, the app helps a lot but sometimes it’s still off.
Apparently the English word is discharge
My wife uses a spreadsheet and connected it to her calendar. Seems pretty accurate.
It is a modified version of this:
