The Proud Boys and other militias believe the exact same thing, just swap anti-fascist for anti-traitors who are “the enemy within”. You are proving each other’s point, two sets of extremists advocating for whatever it takes, with both POSITIVE they’re doing the right thing.
Strawman. Yeah, there are differences. It’s not like I support people like Fuentes. I’ve posted several times about him and other hateful people being a reprehensible bastard. For months I posted anti-Trump. But in many ways that matter there are serious similarities or even exact mirrors between groups. Both:
I magically know who should die so I’m right. I’m righteously saving my country, so I don’t need checks and balances or the mandate of the population.
I don’t care if it escalates national violence, even starts a war and gets others killed - I have the right to make the choice that forces consequences on others.
Good people are going to cheer, bad people are going to live in fear and give up their wicked ways, and I’m going to be a hero.
Abandon peaceful, legal options. It doesn’t matter if multiple challenges to Trump are happening at all levels of government, my way is better and we don’t even need to wait.
I’m powerful enough/my side is that the bad guys will die and we’ll win. I’m so scary and capable, you don’t even know.
I’m actually going to sit on my ass posting “fuck them” and telling other people to kill for me because it makes me feel good. Just daily indulgence in the worst brand of power fantasies.
For that last one: The doxing thread would have been hilarious if it wasn’t disgusting before it got taken down. People were all “they’re not near me” and “I hope someone else does it”. Buddy, they’re the guys who pick fights at bars and stall until the bouncer arrives then tell everyone else, “You’re lucky I was held back”. If I was wrong they’d be doing something (and ruining/ending a lot of lives in the process), not talking BS on Lemmy. I’m not telling people to actually act, it should be incredibly obvious I’m saying not to. I’m also saying I don’t need to worry about 99.9% of the big tough internet men doing so. The murder fetishists in this thread are clearly all hoping if the message reaches thousands, one mentally unstable murderer will actually act so they can cheer from the bleachers without consequences.
Not on the side of killing people here but one side wants to kill minorities and other groups while the other wants to kill people who want to kill minorities.
Would you say painting WWII Nazis as evil and fighting a war against them is the same as them invading Poland to subjugate the natives?
one side wants to kill minorities and other groups while the other wants to kill people who want to kill minorities.
A 2nd response after thinking about that part of your question: Both sides want to kill millions, without trial, on the basis of perceived danger. There’s no moral high ground. No rules of war, no official oversight, just civilians murdering their countrymen in large numbers. Demands that, if acted upon, will escalate into enormous bloodshed without giving less destructive, more legal barriers a chance. The people pushing violence are unrepentantly promoting the idea that “if they want to kill then we’ll kill them first”.
Would you say painting WWII Nazis as evil and fighting a war against them is the same as them invading Poland to subjugate the natives?
I wouldn’t say that, but I understand why you’d ask. The Nazis weren’t opposed by sending any civilian angry enough into Germany to shoot civilians they thought were fascists. When Germany invaded Poland, other countries formally declared war (although it took several months before they actually engaged in combat.) In another comment I wrote why I think formal war with rules of war is different than vigilante killing. In a 2nd, I said that if it comes down to army vs. army civil war I’d say fight hard. In yet another, I told someone they were trying to be the WW2 Allies without the army or mandate.
I also wrote about the likely consequence of vigilante killings including handing Trump and the extreme right all the excuses they could ever want, sabotaging legitimate efforts opposing/delaying Trump by organizations like the Pentagon and state governments, and getting their lives ended/ruined. Some folks are trying to equate promoting assassinations with the Allies’ fight against the Axis, and it’s just not the same in characteristics or consequence. Please also bear in mind the killings they are targeted at podcasters and unknown civilians with the assumption that killing these “ground level” people will sort things out.
Yes if it comes to that, and kept bounded by rules of war. Accepting surrender, treatment of POWs, avoiding civilian casualties, rules of engagement and so on. The US isn’t there yet IMO, by which I mean a significant % of people willing to leave their lives behind to fight other Americans. There are serious legal and administrative attempts being made to block the worst of Trump’s policies. But if the US does in fact have a civil war, I am cheering for those opposing fascists. I don’t know how a 43-year-old Canadian could contribute, but I’d be willing to at minimum donate to things like humanitarian aid for sure.
Anti-fascist action is self-defense.
The Proud Boys and other militias believe the exact same thing, just swap anti-fascist for anti-traitors who are “the enemy within”. You are proving each other’s point, two sets of extremists advocating for whatever it takes, with both POSITIVE they’re doing the right thing.
Fascists: I want systemic violence against anyone that isn’t a white cis het man.
Leftists: I want violence against people who advocate for systemic violence against marginalised groups.
Absolutely undistinguishable :p
Strawman. Yeah, there are differences. It’s not like I support people like Fuentes. I’ve posted several times about him and other hateful people being a reprehensible bastard. For months I posted anti-Trump. But in many ways that matter there are serious similarities or even exact mirrors between groups. Both:
I magically know who should die so I’m right. I’m righteously saving my country, so I don’t need checks and balances or the mandate of the population.
I don’t care if it escalates national violence, even starts a war and gets others killed - I have the right to make the choice that forces consequences on others.
Good people are going to cheer, bad people are going to live in fear and give up their wicked ways, and I’m going to be a hero.
Abandon peaceful, legal options. It doesn’t matter if multiple challenges to Trump are happening at all levels of government, my way is better and we don’t even need to wait.
I’m powerful enough/my side is that the bad guys will die and we’ll win. I’m so scary and capable, you don’t even know.
I’m actually going to sit on my ass posting “fuck them” and telling other people to kill for me because it makes me feel good. Just daily indulgence in the worst brand of power fantasies.
For that last one: The doxing thread would have been hilarious if it wasn’t disgusting before it got taken down. People were all “they’re not near me” and “I hope someone else does it”. Buddy, they’re the guys who pick fights at bars and stall until the bouncer arrives then tell everyone else, “You’re lucky I was held back”. If I was wrong they’d be doing something (and ruining/ending a lot of lives in the process), not talking BS on Lemmy. I’m not telling people to actually act, it should be incredibly obvious I’m saying not to. I’m also saying I don’t need to worry about 99.9% of the big tough internet men doing so. The murder fetishists in this thread are clearly all hoping if the message reaches thousands, one mentally unstable murderer will actually act so they can cheer from the bleachers without consequences.
Not on the side of killing people here but one side wants to kill minorities and other groups while the other wants to kill people who want to kill minorities.
Would you say painting WWII Nazis as evil and fighting a war against them is the same as them invading Poland to subjugate the natives?
A 2nd response after thinking about that part of your question: Both sides want to kill millions, without trial, on the basis of perceived danger. There’s no moral high ground. No rules of war, no official oversight, just civilians murdering their countrymen in large numbers. Demands that, if acted upon, will escalate into enormous bloodshed without giving less destructive, more legal barriers a chance. The people pushing violence are unrepentantly promoting the idea that “if they want to kill then we’ll kill them first”.
I wouldn’t say that, but I understand why you’d ask. The Nazis weren’t opposed by sending any civilian angry enough into Germany to shoot civilians they thought were fascists. When Germany invaded Poland, other countries formally declared war (although it took several months before they actually engaged in combat.) In another comment I wrote why I think formal war with rules of war is different than vigilante killing. In a 2nd, I said that if it comes down to army vs. army civil war I’d say fight hard. In yet another, I told someone they were trying to be the WW2 Allies without the army or mandate.
I also wrote about the likely consequence of vigilante killings including handing Trump and the extreme right all the excuses they could ever want, sabotaging legitimate efforts opposing/delaying Trump by organizations like the Pentagon and state governments, and getting their lives ended/ruined. Some folks are trying to equate promoting assassinations with the Allies’ fight against the Axis, and it’s just not the same in characteristics or consequence. Please also bear in mind the killings they are targeted at podcasters and unknown civilians with the assumption that killing these “ground level” people will sort things out.
Ah, so you aren’t opposed to killing fascists, you just want it to be done on the orders of a military.
Yes if it comes to that, and kept bounded by rules of war. Accepting surrender, treatment of POWs, avoiding civilian casualties, rules of engagement and so on. The US isn’t there yet IMO, by which I mean a significant % of people willing to leave their lives behind to fight other Americans. There are serious legal and administrative attempts being made to block the worst of Trump’s policies. But if the US does in fact have a civil war, I am cheering for those opposing fascists. I don’t know how a 43-year-old Canadian could contribute, but I’d be willing to at minimum donate to things like humanitarian aid for sure.