This generalization does not hold. Sometimes vinegar is better at “catching” these “flies”. For examples being nice to a fascist gives the impression that they are acceptable and have valuable opinions. If you treat them with the contempt they deserve, you more correctly communicate your sentiment and model it for others. This also applies to a person you are talking to directly. If you try to, for example, politely debate genocide as if it is not generally understood to be the worst and most serious crime to be avoided at all costs, you feed into the idea that is not so bad, it is a chip to be wagered just like any other political “compromise” when being “pragmatic”. I have yet to see anyone win over to actually changing their mind and doing something about Gaza because someone validated their logic on supporting Biden buy I have seen people make a complete about-face when presented with the harsh realities.

More realistically, the people who are complacent are the majority in this space and do not like to feel challenged or guilty (even though they are wrong and complicit). Rather than become consistent by actually opposing genocide or otherwise becoming informed on the topics in question, they find an environment full of half-truth excuses that tells them they don’t need to actually change what they are doing and can actually somehow the genociders without supporting genocide.

What they need is not honey. Honey is plentiful and they still do not drink it. But some vinegar may wake them up, give them a chance to self-criticize.

That’s a phrase I live my life by to be honest lol

They’re not insane, they’re just victims of tribal thinking like the rest of us. Very narrow worldview reinforced by the others around them, bashing outsiders, thinking “they” are smarter than everyone else. Mostly, they see themselves as good and everyone else as bad, which isn’t very unique among humans either.

Absolutely yes. I should have clarified that I agree with your first several points:-). I only disagreed (somewhat strongly) with the last one. Definitely the “is everyone insane (except me ofc 🙃)?” is hyperbolic, and mostly venting, and I even treated it as being a silly / unserious wording, but also halfway serious in terms of seeking information and reassurance that the Fediverse is worth visiting, if someone is more careful where they tread.

Therefore, the OP is not doing the identical thing in reverse, imho, b/c OP is responding to the way that they were treated, which is necessarily not thought-out fully but rather a knee-jerk reaction. OP came to us for help in emotionally processing what(ever) happened to them, whereas people on hexbear.net continually act that way for years and years, plus actively resist any efforts to change (which OP hasn’t even had the opportunity to do yet, this post being mere hours old), which seems to me more than enough time for them to have settled and made a conscientious, intentional decision as to how they want to live their lives. So again, yes OP may have done something of a similar nature, at least similar in kind, but the fact that the degree differs makes all the difference in the world. Maybe?

As for creating division and causing hostility, definitely users of Chapotraphouse have been known to do similarly… but if you want to respond that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard, then I will preemptively agree.:-) Except that the Fediverse has in the past allowed no distinction between communities - TheDonald (if one existed here) would be presented to a (especially new) user in exactly the same manner as e.g. No Stupid Questions (technically I believe that 0.19.5 introduced the allowance for labelling a community by an instance owner, though I am aware of zero communities so far that have used this feature, and many instances have not even upgraded to it yet - at least mine has not yet, though I see that yours has and more are catching up as time passes, maybe even most of the major ones at this point? so maybe there are such labels all around and I am simply not seeing them, though reports such as OP’s and lack of discussion about such makes me strongly doubt that). Except the former would be much more likely to ban you outright for asking a “stupid” question (in their eyes), since as we agree, they feel themselves to be the sole arbiters and conveyors of truth, and moreover, unlike you and I who are discussing this topic so politely (and even pleasantly?) here, are not open to any dissenting POVs (+ are much more likely to enact a full-on ban rather than mere post removal).

Fwiw, I liken it to porn. If someone wants that… then they should be allowed to have it - why should I try to block someone’s access to a contentious conversation, or impinge upon freedom of speech in any way? On the other hand, when someone else’s freedom to speak impinges upon MY freedom to not have to listen to such crap, especially when it blows up my inbox (for WEEKS and WEEKS and WEEKS after I stopped responding!!!), that’s where I draw the line. That’s literally not what “freedom” means - except in their eyes, where they feel that they should be free to ban outsiders, but not for outsiders to block them in return. Put another way: we control ourselves rather than spew our thoughts uncontrollably onto someone, but so many people on certain instances do the opposite, since their culture has taken root to actively applaud that behavior. And yet, except on instances that have already banned hexbear.net (& lemmygrad.ml, and imho lemmy.ml as well, except no major instances do the latter afaik), new users are constantly exposed to that porn style of “contentious content”, which goes against Western standards of normal behavior, without any such warning messages. Thereby leading to posts such as OP’s, who was shocked to see it. As so many have been before, and so many will continue to be, unless something is done about it.

So what I am getting at is that in large measure, what causes division and hostility is coming across such a thing unawares. If it were labelled, it would be different - e.g. if you clicked upon a post with an interesting title and a warning popped up “Warning: this community have chosen to voluntarily label itself as containing NSFW/NSFL “potentially contentious content”, please read this [external statement] before replying to anyone in it.” (and then had an option to not show again, when the user feels that they understand and don’t need the warning anymore)

But when you are just scrolling your All feed, as a day- or week-1 Fedizen, and suddenly come upon such graphic/contentious content… it can be more than a little jarring. So it’s not merely their particular style that is the problem, but rather (like porn) it is the infringement of that style upon the unaware users on the rest of the worldwide Fediverse.

I hope this further explanation was of interest to you:-).

Defending communist genocide wanabes with moral relativism makes me think you are neither smarter nor better than them.

Just because someone is in big group doesn’t mean he is good person and deserves any kind of respect.

Would you insult and belittle people in person? That’s what I’m referring to. You give them an opposing view and they go insane. I don’t care if they have a different opinion. Their opinion doesn’t impact my life. But if some of those people talked like that to people’s faces, they’d probably get punched

Hmm… you got me then, friendo

I do remember that, and I remember them half-assing the Donald by just letting them make a new sub (or overrun conspiracy irrc)

No, The Donald was encouraging political violence and was becoming a legal liability for Reddit to continue hosting. But they needed to ban a major left wing subreddit at the same time to do a “both sides bad” thing and preempt the fascist talking points about social media having a liberal bias.

The Donald had largely abandoned the sub well before it was banned though.

The_Donald was dead amd had migrated to a non-reddit forum a month before the ban. It was typical “both sides” bullshit from a dude who always uses the kiddy gloves with fascists while throwing the book at any leftists

They were banned while saying John Brown did nothing wrong and that slaveowners deserve to die.

Sounds pretty cool to me.

I don’t think they really helped with the financing

All the computational resources the users tested the code base on must’ve been free.

I’m surprised to see a sympathetic comment like this from an account on an instance that has them defederated

Identity politics from .ml?

If you’re surprised at such small acts of individual praxis, you’d be amazed at what we’ve accomplished in groups.

Hello, low effort neolib troll. Thanks for the opportunity to continue to speak truth.

There’s a cultural similarity to what 4-chan was prior to the LOIC. But, they’re definitely not tankies. Sincere expressions of authoritarian means are soundly defeated and unusually result in permabans. The principle and practice is consistent for MAGA, neolibs, and authoritarians.

Honestly what is with the comrade/them shit they do about? I thought it was ironic like they were making fun of neopronouns or they were the 4chan people who popularised them in the first place

There’s much to learn from Stalin. But, advocating his authoritarian means is a bannable offense there just as they are in any meritable leftist forum. They tolerate a minority of revolutionaries ideologically leading the lumpen as it’s a historically very well-supoorted position. But, that doesn’t extend to physical force as that’s also a historically very well supported position.

It’s much easier, convenient, and comfortable to demonized them than understand them. They even provided proactive assistance when many were deciding if they should defederate. They voted internally for defederation to defend their community from the medicrity of the masses.

though, to be fair, kulaks are bad.

The comrade in it actually suggests that there is a time and place for such rhetoric

Perhaps now is the time.

The kulaks were not an ethnic minority persecuted by the bolsheviks as a scapegoat for society’s ills. They were the economic class directly responsible for many of those ills. They were the capitalists of the peasantry, enclosing land and claiming ownership over what should have been the common means of production, precisely the kind of group that communists the world over want to destroy in order to liberate the majority of people.

When it was written that the kulaks were to be “liquidated”, it did not mean that they were to be mass executed, it meant that their private property was to be moved into public ownership, ending the existence of the kulak class and making them into regular workers.

As is the case in every single campaign of economic or social justice, the privileged class fought back with everything they had. Kulaks contributed to the Soviet Famine of 1930-1933 by mass slaughtering their cattle and burning their fields. Kulaks hoarded grain, took the wealth that they had stolen from their neighbors and fled the country, plotted sabotage and insurrection against the workers’ movement. And for those crimes, many Kulaks were caught and executed.

So if the original commenter’s great grandparents were kulaks who “suffered at the hands of the soviet union,” they deserved it.

Yes, please read what the .ee admin says about where the bigoted users originate and the actions of the hexbear mods in response. It certainly speaks for itself.

Coming up with theory in an echo chamber isn’t hard.

The best example I’ve experienced online is hexbear’s process to derive forum ruleset with respect to their minority of GLBTQ+. The consensus was that many understood and that those that did not would follow in faith, assuming that they would soon understand. The second best online example was the GME subreddits’ cultural response to initial scaling. The consensus was that each should individually choose and the collective’s purpose was to educate, this strengthening individual wisdom.

But, my guidance would be to first pursue such things in real life. A leftist’s best work is almost always grassroots local.

I also haven’t seen this but it seems to make fun of the authoritarian excesses in Mao’s China (struggle session).

The Three Body Problem show features this, leading a character to go mad and wanting to destroy humanity.

The funny thing is that this post is sort of a struggle session, an attempt to build consensus against socialists.

Notable struggle sessions:

Pronouns End result: Transphobes outed themselves and were purged)

Veganism End result: Vegans who couldn’t stop stoking the fire and anti-vegans who wouldn’t stop trolling or using indigenous people as a shield were purged, CWs were required for meat, vegans generally chilled out

Stacking rocks End result: White guys using indigenous tribes they aren’t a part of as a shield were heavily mocked)

Outdoor Cats End result: outdoor cats bad

AES countries End result: For each country, there are/have been significant issues, but nearly every western criticism is worthless due to being false or ignoring the historical context.

Hey EABOD25, what’s the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy shit on the walls and the mozzarella sticks?

Sure, but I meant you asked if everyone in hexbear is insane, and they included you and themselves in the hexbear server, I think?

Anyway, you can block users/communities/servers, still. Maybe that can improve your experience?

Downvotes are open, but yeah, not currently exposed to every client, but its possible :) Maybe a server can show a sentiment score for a user, i do know one lemmy fork actually does that already, but I forgot which one.

thanks for satisfying my curiosity anyways 👍

While I would prefer defederation in this case, I found being on an instance ran by competent admin small price to pay.

That would work for some - hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml - but not for others, like lemmy.ml and maybe Midwest.social. At some point users need to start blocking on their own.