@Pika@flop_leash_973 This is largely my thoughts on the whole thing, the process of actually training the AI is no different from a human learning
The thing about that, is that there’s likely enough precedent in copyright law to actually handle that, with most copyright law it’s all about intent and scale and I think that’s likely where this will all go
Here the intent is to replace and the scale is astronomical, whereas an individual’s intent is to add and the scale is minimal
@zbyte64 with everything you see you are scraping data from your environment whether you want to or not
How does a child learn what pain is? How does a teenager learn what heartbreak is? It’s certainly not because they made the decision to find that out themselves
I bring up agency and I get an exemplary response what I mean.
Raising a child well requires someone who is able to engage in the child’s own theory of mind. If you just treat a child as an information sponge they will need more therapy than usual. A good parent takes interest in their child’s ability to exercise agency.
Then I guess my original point of agency being an essential element in human learning had nothing to do with your conversation about how AI learns like humans. Carry on.
@zbyte64 from what I understand, you’re referring to the process at scale—the amount of information the AI can take in is inhuman—which I’m not disagreeing with
None of which is relevant to my original point: the scale of their operations, which has already been used countless times in copyright law
The scale at which they operate and their intention to profit is the basis for their infringement, how they’re doing it would be largely irrelevant in a copyright case, is my point
The process of training the model is arguably similar to a human learning, and if the model just sat on a server doing nothing but knowing, there’d be no problem. Taking that knowledge and selling it to the public en mass is the issue.
This is precisely what copyrights and patents are here to safeguard. Is there already a book like A Song of Ice and Fire? Write something else, maybe better! There’s already a patent for an idea you have? Change and improve upon it and get your own patent!
You see, copyrights and patents are supposed to spur creativity, not hinder it. OpenAI should improve upon its system so that it actually thinks and is creative itself rather than regurgitating copyrighted materials, themes and ideas. Then they wouldn’t have this problem.
OpenAI wants literally all of human knowledge and creativity for free so that they can sell it back to you. And you’re okay-ish with it?
@Subverb that is, quite impressively, the opposite of what I said
Is a person infringing on copyright by producing content? No. It’s about intent and scale. Humans don’t just sit on this knowledge, they do something with it
There is nothing illegal about WHAT it’s doing, there is everything illegal about HOW and WHY
I very clearly stated that OpenAI’s intent and their scale at which they operate are blatant copyright infringement and that it has been backed up with decades of precedents
@Pika @flop_leash_973 This is largely my thoughts on the whole thing, the process of actually training the AI is no different from a human learning
The thing about that, is that there’s likely enough precedent in copyright law to actually handle that, with most copyright law it’s all about intent and scale and I think that’s likely where this will all go
Here the intent is to replace and the scale is astronomical, whereas an individual’s intent is to add and the scale is minimal
Hello fellow human. I also learn by having information shoveled to me without regard to my agency.
@zbyte64 with everything you see you are scraping data from your environment whether you want to or not
How does a child learn what pain is? How does a teenager learn what heartbreak is? It’s certainly not because they made the decision to find that out themselves
I bring up agency and I get an exemplary response what I mean.
Raising a child well requires someone who is able to engage in the child’s own theory of mind. If you just treat a child as an information sponge they will need more therapy than usual. A good parent takes interest in their child’s ability to exercise agency.
@zbyte64 you’re getting away from the original conversation
Then I guess my original point of agency being an essential element in human learning had nothing to do with your conversation about how AI learns like humans. Carry on.
@zbyte64 we’re saying the same thing
It’s a matter scale, not process
I’m literally saying (an aspect of) process matters, how are we saying the same thing?
@zbyte64 from what I understand, you’re referring to the process at scale—the amount of information the AI can take in is inhuman—which I’m not disagreeing with
None of which is relevant to my original point: the scale of their operations, which has already been used countless times in copyright law
The scale at which they operate and their intention to profit is the basis for their infringement, how they’re doing it would be largely irrelevant in a copyright case, is my point
The process of training the model is arguably similar to a human learning, and if the model just sat on a server doing nothing but knowing, there’d be no problem. Taking that knowledge and selling it to the public en mass is the issue.
This is precisely what copyrights and patents are here to safeguard. Is there already a book like A Song of Ice and Fire? Write something else, maybe better! There’s already a patent for an idea you have? Change and improve upon it and get your own patent!
You see, copyrights and patents are supposed to spur creativity, not hinder it. OpenAI should improve upon its system so that it actually thinks and is creative itself rather than regurgitating copyrighted materials, themes and ideas. Then they wouldn’t have this problem.
OpenAI wants literally all of human knowledge and creativity for free so that they can sell it back to you. And you’re okay-ish with it?
@Subverb that is, quite impressively, the opposite of what I said
Is a person infringing on copyright by producing content? No. It’s about intent and scale. Humans don’t just sit on this knowledge, they do something with it
There is nothing illegal about WHAT it’s doing, there is everything illegal about HOW and WHY
I very clearly stated that OpenAI’s intent and their scale at which they operate are blatant copyright infringement and that it has been backed up with decades of precedents