as a person that came from the 3rd world country and new in fediverse environment, i genuinely would like to know about this.
edit: thanks for the replies! sorry, i literally don’t know the reason since i’m not a western lol. twitter/x is too biased especially when musk openly supports trump so i came here and seeing fediverse is mostly are harris or biden (when he’s still up for the candidate) supporters. don’t know about reddit tho, i only use reddit as a forum for linux and programming stuff.
There are a couple masquerading as Green Party supporters, and you do see blatently pro-Trump posters occasionally, but most of them are lurkers who, if they comment, hide behind criticizing Democrats rather than voicing pro-Trump sentiments.
Look for the people who were smashing Biden for the debate behavior while ignoring Trump’s Alzheimer’s symptoms. The people being nitpicking Harris or Walz, while being silent about the Couch-Fucker and Orange Stalin. Those are the pro-Trump lurkers. There aren’t many, though, because they don’t thrive outside of an echo chamber.
Lemmy’s an echo chamber as well, but you’ll find plenty of people who criticize both parties, and while a lot of people like Kamala, very few claim she’s perfect, or worship her. And there’s plenty of legitimate criticism of the Democratic party, and strong sentiment about a need for change in US politics. This is the sort of discussion and debate which would not be sanctioned in most conservative forums, and could easily get you banned. So I think it’s fair to say Lemmy is far less echo-y than most.
Oh ffs, it’s non-binary. I can support certain policies while standing 10 down against others. I can look for alternative candidates without being Nazi, shill or troll. I’m fact, that mentality is from the GW Bush playbook, “if you’re not for us, you’re against us!” Which to be fair, I’m against politicians who rake in corporate, PAC and billionaire dollars, mainly because they’re proud corporate and against we regular people.
But isn’t that exactly what they were saying? If you go on X, for example, you can literally be banned for using the word “cisgender”. Musk considers it a slur. Here, you can voice any opinion.
However there’s a different between agreeing with some right-wing policies and being a full-on MAGA fascist. Full-on MAGA fascists shrivel up and die when exposed to any discourse that hasn’t been heavily censored and editorialized in their favor. So naturally they’ll avoid places where different opinions are shared. This alone is enough reason to call this place an echo chamber, because a (sadly) very prevalent set of opinions isn’t represented here.
And I can, for example, get away with referring to MAGA fascists as MAGA fascists knowing full well that not a single one of those Trump-fellating pussies will say anything against me for it, and even if one does, the community will not have their back.
No these people are definitely leftist. Why would we criticize trump when we know there is no chance of altering his policy. Atleast with the democrats we might (and thats a big maybe) push them left by witholding our vote and being vocal about our opposition to genocide
I think that your metrics for picking covert Trumpers based upon that appaling debate is incorrect and simplistic. I watched every second of that shit show and believed that we were doomed for another 4 years of the orange turd.
Trump lied during the debate. Some estimates were that he lied upwards of 250 times in his 45 minutes at the mic. Those numbers seems off, but who knows? I don’t know the true figure, but it was insane. However, it is also not the fucking point. Trump is a serial liar. He lies to his family, he lies to the people, he lies to the courts, he lies non-stop. He would have lied if Biden performed outstandingly in the debate. He would have lied if Biden put in a middling performance. And, he lied when Biden performed badly. Are we supposed to be clutching our pearls in shock that Trump lied?
So, we can’t judge Biden’s terrible performance by the ‘other guy’. We need to judge whether Biden could win in November. And if you had of watched all 90 minutes, like I did, there was zero confidence that he could. The GOP campaign would have portrayed Biden’s lost moments a million times, over and over and over again. And they’d be stupid not to. And yes, Trump lied in the debate. Let’s try and turn the broken bus around on the seemingly new information that a serial liar lied on stage.
The proof of this was the instant jump in the polls once Harris became the candidate and the growing support since. Is the argument that all these covert GOP critics suddenly turned Dems? Or, perhaps, changing to Haris was the sensible thing to do, and perhaps, just might keep the orange turd out of the white house.
I think that your metrics for picking covert Trumpers based upon that appaling debate is incorrect and simplistic.
Well, yeah, it’s simplistic. I’m generalizing.
I watched every second of that shit show and believed that we were doomed for another 4 years of the orange turd.
I agree. Biden had a bad night (and, it appears in retrospect, had been declining for a while). Trump has been a deranged narcissistic sociopath since day 1; Biden was held to a higher standard than Trump. Biden performs poorly, and the heart sunk out of the Democratic faithful. Trump performs poorly, and that’s just par for the course, because all Trumpers care about is hurting liberals.
However, I admit I don’t know what you’re arguing; I think we agree on most of this. The Harris bump was because (as I said) it gave liberals hope that they could win. The bump came from undecideds who suddenly saw an energized, engaged, and competent viable candidate as an option; or people who before saw only two decrepit old white men (The Patriarchy) feebly flailing for control, and suddenly one of the candidates was strong, under 60, female, and a minority!
We’re answering OP’s question why there aren’t more Trumpers on Lemmy. There are; they’re just hidden, and how they respond to the debate outs them. The debate was just an example:
- Non-Trumper: If Joe had a cold, it looks like a staffer gave him Nyquil instead of amphetamines. He’d have paid for the uppers the next day, but it if ever there was a time to push yourself and pay the price later, this debate was it. He was horrible. Trump was his usual lying self, rambling nonsense, and looked like his usual re-animated corpse.
- Trumper: Biden was awful; he’s obviously going senile, unable to answer questions, losing his train of thought, weak.
Democrats are far more critical of their own candidate than Republicans are of their’s, and that’s how you identify the conservative lurkers. They’re there, and they’re not hard to recognize.
This subsequent post of yours is more substantial in explaining your position and I generally agree with all of your points.
My post was with the absurdist position that critiquing the Biden performance around the time of the last debate made you an enemy of progressive politics. Joe had fired his last good shot in 2016. He’s a good man, a heroic fighter for his age but Trump was always going to steamroll him this time. It doesn’t matter that Joe had a cold, or that he sometimes made excellent policy points, the optics were that he was meandering and frail. It wasn’t that the debate done him in by itself - Obama sometimes had a bad debate (particularly his first one) it was that his performance on the night confirmed what was evident for months. By the time Joe started arguing with Trump about who could beat who in golf the jig was up.
Despite Trump’s own senior moments, despite his atrocious behaviour, despite his obvious lies, the feeling was Joe is doomed. And so was the most important election since last time, and that says a lot. The fact that it is not impossible that he still won’t get in again is beyond worrying. But with Harris there is a decent chance.
I hope that clears up my position? It was more a vent against all those who insisted that we ride the Joe bus over the cliff and disbelieve our own eyes while we did it.
Yeah, I think we’re on the same page. The Biden administration did good, but we’d come to a depressingly low point in politics.
I’m encouraged that more conservatives are feeling it’s safe to pop their heads out and criticize Trump, and the radical right who’ve been able to hijack the party thanks largely to party policies started during Ronald Fucking Regan’s administration. But if they do it on Lemmy, they’re assumed to be liberals which may increase the perception of there being few conservatives on Lemmy.
Lemmy is still more generally politically Left than American Left, which is, after all, pretty centrist compared to western Europe. This feeds even more into OP’s question about why there aren’t more conservatives on Lemmy: if you look at Lemmy as a European, the pro- Trumpers are neo-Nazis, not conservatives; the center is so far right, anything more right is essentially legally banned in Germany.
Thats a pretty sophisticated bit of analysis, particularly for Lemmy.
I still find it amazing that the vote will be as close as it undoubtedly will become. I mean, Trump is not only for himself, but he is also plainly destructive. He’s now touting the low-information ‘Joe Rogan vote’. Young white guys who haven’t been following anything.
They’re here, anything pro trump is often downvoted, and most things heavily critical of the Dems are also often downvoted.
For better or worse, there’s not a lot of right wing stuff that makes it into the positive on votes.
If you sort new, you’ll see it pop up from time to time.
It’s hard to tell sometimes, but it certainly feels like some political regimes are trying out dropping propaganda here or there into the conversation. I’m sure most of it is from genuine users, but there are some comments that just look like they’re here to stir up dissent.
The difference to Reddit et al is that votes don’t generally matter a huge lot in here. And you can easily hide them.
However Lots of places love to call those pointing out flaws in democratic policies trump supporters unfortunately
For better or worse, there’s not a lot of right wing stuff that makes it into the positive on votes.
That is for the better.
It would be nice to have some opposition, though. Even if most “conservative” media right now is little more than xenophobia, or cult worship, there do exist sound arguments against the typical internet-left positions. I don’t have a solid enough read on what comes through New in the fediverse to say whether any of that is being submitted and just downvoted off everyone’s feeds, or if all that’s being submitted is the average conservative media junk.
Still, political spaces without opposition/diversity invariably degenerate into purity contests, and circle jerking.
No, there’s really not sound arguments against them. That’s why nobody ever hears sound arguments.
Stop assuming ghosts exist because you saw a picture frame on the wall move when a large truck went by…
No, there’s really not sound arguments against them.
That’s like saying there are no trade-offs to any policies; it’s simply not true. I’m as left as they come (not American left, British), but failing to admit there are flaws or sound arguments against left-wing ideas is very ignorant.
Nonono, you misunderstand the political landscape.
Something having downsides IS NOT the same as the claims being made against things. If you think conservative politicians are arguing in good faith, you simply haven’t been listening.
There really are not sound (conservative) arguments against them.
If you do not agree, you do not know enough. Period.
If you do not agree, you do not know enough. Period.
Lol. Your arrogance is astounding.
Your pride in ignorance is pathetic. Perfect example of why public education is critically important to fund, and to fund properly.
Conservstives cling on to old, stupid ideas that are in the process of being proven wrong. Again and again and again and again.
But you go ahead and defend that hill that brought us golden gems of wisdom like “Trickle Down Economics”, private, for-profit prisons, and a lack of regulation so companies can dump what ever they want in to rivers and the ocean…
If you think the right has sound points you wish were better represented here, then are you sure you’re as left as they come?
Your argument begs the question.
Not what I said, is it? The person said there are no arguments against “the typical internet-left positions”; which I disagree with. If such positions were infallible, they would always succeed. All policies have trade-offs.
I didn’t mention “right … sound points” or their representation.
Actually it’s my b as i confused another posters point up the chain for yours, sorry
Conservative media comes through plenty in the form of business, tech and mainstream media sources 🙄
Don’t confuse the fact that Republicans have become degenerate doesn’t mean their ideas are the basis of conservative ideology.
You occasionally run into some disagreeable but unobjectionable “traditional” conservative opinions, usually around economics and the governments role in it, but trump shit isn’t that. We can be friends if you think a market solution is viable or better than an entitlement program. We can’t be friends if you think a significant portion of your fellow citizens are vermin or that we should just let terrible problems continue or get worse.
The window has just shifted so far that literal objective depictions of reality are described as “left”.
Lemmy and Maatodon clearly accept left-wing values more than right-wing
Decentralized network designed to stand up to big tech by gay trans furries. Not much appeal for those folks round these parts.
Designed by communists as well, not the favorite of coservatives
There is !conservative@lemm.ee. I don’t visit that community but I assume they are supporters.
Its like on “conservative” mod shilling genertic GOP talking points with cherry picked facts and dozens of demoractic shills shilling their brain dead takes.
Republican ideology has no under pinnings beyond fuck poor for the benefit of the rich.
Ask these conservatives about maternity leave and want them get bent out of shape explaining away why we can’t just have it 🤡
All I know is that I use socials to get away from political bullshit
me too, tbh.
They generally get defederated from the major instances.
if only we could defederate them from the USA.
The ones I know are full of racist memes and incel comments, so…
They absolutely exist. But in general, I think most people here are informed and choose a wide variety of information to consume. That is exactly the opposite of most Trump supporters.
They’re here, you can find them if you look in the right places - however, most fediverse admins are technically apt and left leaning so Trump bullshit often gets folks banned and, when it doesn’t, they usually get a very negative response.
I have seen the one or the other, but they were immediately down voted into oblivion.
sad to be trump supporter here tho lol
Its sad to be a trump supporter everywhere.
There are plenty of Trump supporters here. Every comment from someone who implies one shouldn’t vote for Harris because of the Israel-Gaza war is likely someone trying to suppress Democrat turnout. Single issue voting is the only way the GOP ever win.
The Gaza posts always make me laugh because they completely ignore that Trump would just glass Gaza.
The only reason Trump hasn’t showed how terrible he’d be on Gaza is because he isn’t president right now.
excellent bait, good sir 👍
You: “Hitler can’t take back office, but we do need to continue the concentration camps. People who don’t want concentration camps are directly supporting Hitler.”
My brother in christ you cannot compromise on fucking genocide. Liberals like you are so fucking scared of the orange man that you are willing to let hundreds of thousands die without even asking for better.
Found the trump supporter.
Ah yes everyone not happy about genocide is a trump supporter /s
Lmao, I’m not voting for a kid diddler either
Then you’re voting for…?
Whichever candidate is willing to end the genocide not that I’d believe trump if he said he would. I’ll vote third party if necessary
Harris is working to end the genocide right now. She’s fighting for a permanent ceasefire and two state solution. That might not be your preferred way to resolve the conflict, but it would stop the carnage and give Palestine more leverage to negotiate on the world stage.
Yeah… no. If she was working towards that she would have ended all weapon supplies to Israel. What she is doing is putting on a face and pretending to care.
The Americans are lost. Their version of democracy has collapsed over their own heads. In a way, they deserve this shit. If they put all this crappy energy into unitedly voting for third candidate, it just might work. But nope, gotta wake up every day and go online to accuse people who refuse a second holocaust of being tRuMp SupPorTers.
Free thought is dead in America and the Americans killed it.
Go ahead downvote me to fucking hell, haters.
You’re willing to let millions die for how many more generations in Gaza with Hamas in charge, and tens of millions if Iran shoots its shot at Israel? Grow up.
You keep his name out of your fuckdamn heathen mouth…
If all you’re voting on is how they respond to Gaza, Harris isn’t great but Trump is exponentially worse. He’s openly said that Israel should continue what they’re doing. In fact, in every metric of comparison Trump is exponentially worse. It’s not that we’re scared of Trump, it’s that he is so much worse in every regard.
Yeah no shit but im not gonna settle for genocide. Slower genocide is still genocide and if I can do anything to prevent the murder of hundreds of thousands of people I will do so. I genuinely believe that witholding my vote and protesting has a chance of altering Harris’ position here.
What good does altering Harris’s position do if she doesn’t win?
If she wins without ceasing material support for actual genocide then we have failed as a people. Politicans are beholden to us not the other way around. It is our demands they should listen to not the demands of raytheon, boeing, palantir, and others that uphold their wealth and power.
Thats not even mentioning the fact that not supporting genocide basically guarantees her win. This is an incredible popular position that many many people passionately care about
But what good is punishing Harris by withdrawing your vote? What does this even do except inch everything closer to Trump - who will make the issue you’re prioritizing, worse?
It tells her that she might fucking lose if she doesn’t change her stance. Do you really think a politician will do anything for the people if they can win without doing it? How do you think politics works? Asking nicely? I’m exerting political pressure not “punishing her”
^ This is either a bot or a 14 year old. Impossible to tell nowadays
Please get over yourself
We cant stop a genocide in the future if were too busy fighting one in our backyard. Our system is fucked, we are forced to play the game, so we have pick our battles.
Somehow people think that pointing out that anyone who isn’t Trump are pro-genocide means that Trump somehow isn’t pro-genocide.
Like you’re not allowed to think about two problems at once. Or that there are no other options…
I get that but I’m not gonna criticize trump for being pro-genocide bc we can’t do shit fuck about that. Atleast with Harris there is a slim chance of changing her position on the matter by witholding votes and being vocal about it.
Yes. Exactly! The reason people keep bitching about Harris and genocide is because they hope something might actually happen about it.
Biden was an absolutely terrible candidate (that I was going to vote for) and probably the only person who could lose against Trump. Because people constantly bitched about how bad he was they changed the candidate.
Harris doesn’t get to use Trump as a not-as-bad-as screen, and given that we don’t have the option of not voting for her, everyone should be applying every other available form of pressure to discourage her from enabling genocide or otherwise maintaining the status quo.
Now is not the time. After she is elected, get out there and put the pressure on her. But it makes no sense to risk the fate of the entire country on this.
This will come as an absolute shock to you. You can vote for someone you criticize…
Which party was it that dogpiles on anyone that dares criticize their shitty candidates again?
The point of saying it before the election is that the expectations are set.
I can understand that you can vote for someone you criticize. But it’s obviously implied that you’re withholding your vote unless the administration changes their tune, which means you’re not voting for someone you’re criticizing at the moment. If not, then you have nothing to pressure with.
I am all for constructive criticism but I still don’t think this is an effective means to accomplish getting this point across.
What kind of democracy is one where you can’t even criticize the candidate because “it’s not the right time” right before the elections when the candidates are forced to make changes to make the public happy? After they are in power, it’s another 4 years of BS, and by the third year the same cycle begins and you are not allowed to criticize your candidate.
It’s so hard to take people seriously who talk like turbo redditors. My BrOtHeR iN lOw KeY cHrIsT.
Thats fair but it’s probably just a generational or regional divide. For instance, I personally can’t take people who use that form of text capitalization seriously. No shame though I just associate it with 7th grade
I just associate it with 7th grade
You’re not gonna believe this, but I’m pretty sure that was the intent, to mock you
Oh, I’m not very good at detecting those sorts of things
The orange man is not the solution here, to be clear
Yes, of course. I would never encourage people to vote for a fascist
Yet you are encouraging others to NOT vote for the non-fascist?
CuriousToeTea.tiff
Harris is materially supporting a genocide and uncritically parroting the rhetoric of israeli fascist. I am telling people not to vote for her because she too is a fascist. Should she stop supporting this slaughter then I would happily encourage everyone to vote for her
lol no
America is, unfortunately, a two party system. If not enough people vote for Harris, Trump wins. Period. There are no options besides Harris and Trump, and only one of them has talked about how Israel should literally nuke Gaza (I’ll let you take a guess on which one it was.)
I see your idealism, and I agree that any amount of genocide is unacceptable, but letting Trump win will just accelerate the genocide in Gaza, expand it to the West Bank (more noticeably, anyways), and likely start new genocides here in America. I’ve been writing to my representatives and sending them articles about the atrocities being committed by the IDF and imploring them to do something about it…but I’m not dumb enough to withhold my vote from the Centrists and allow the Fascists to take over.
I repeat: withholding your vote from Harris is effectively a vote for Trump because America is a two party system, and there’s only two options to pick from.
I’ll withhold my vote from trump then I guess. Fascism isn’t something you can vote away, its roots are entirely systemic and the Democrats have no desire to do away with it anyway. People being scared of fascism is the basically their best argument for getting elected these days. It’s very useful for them.
Besides, what incentive do the Democrats have to change their policy if they won’t lose a single voter. I’m not so naive that I believe politicians in either party determine policy based off morality.
Another brand new account posting the same tired bad faith party lines.
Everyone who doesn’t stand behind me absolutely is my enemy.
Fascists deserve bashes
Agreed.
Op here’s one ^
Sorry pal. Harris gonna win.
I genuinely don’t care.
Have you stopped to consider that labelling someone as the “enemy” is parlance mostly engaged in by conservatives? Progressives don’t usually think in those terms. To a progressive, you might be ignorant, misinformed, misguided, deluded, xenophobic, racist, or engaging in bad faith, but you are rarely the “enemy.” Even Trump himself although perhaps though of as an “enemy of democracy,” is not a personal enemy. Your response using that metaphor serves to highlight the conservative mind set of making it personal, and harboring an anger so deep that political disagreement is grounds for personal animosity and even violence.
I like how you’re so high up on your horse that not only does is your team too good to have enemies, you can doublethink away any use of the term as impersonal.
The US had a 2x mortality rate of Canada. 6x higher compared to South Korea, 10x of Japan the first two years of Covid. Even going with the lowest number, about 500,000 Americans could have survived with even marginally competent leadership. One that might not have…
- Disbanded the Pandemic response team Obama set up.
- Undercut the messaging from the CDC because Trump couldn’t handle Fauci having a higher approval rating than him.
- Spewed constant misinformation about everything from bleach, sunlight to ivermectin while professionals were desperately trying to do their job.
- Intentionally dragging his feet on the relief effort because someone told him that it was hitting the cities first and the Democrats would be most affected.
- Goddamn masks. All he had to do was go on TV and tell his little cultists to wear the damn things, and we could have prevented so much of the deaths that came from the original strain/Delta. (Not Omicron)
… Hitler killed less Americans than Trump did. That’s just facts.
The “disbanding” of the pandemic response team is largely misrepresented. I don’t disagree with the rest, or see how it’s at all relevant to the current conversation.
Some people cause so much harm that, fuck it, they’re enemies. It doesn’t matter that Adolf McHitlerface had a terrible childhood. Overwhelming violence was a legitimate mean to put an end to his action.
You won’t be able to fix everyone, and not everybody with a terrible life becomes a fascist.
Trump doesn’t care that you have an open mind and are willing to try to change him. Give him the chance, and he’ll let you know what he thinks of your good nature.
I’m not dehumanizing him. He’s not the antichrist. He’s in fact terribly human. But not all humans deserve rehabilitation, especially when they’re actively causing harm. When a terrorist shoots people at a concert, it’s absolutely OK to kill them to prevent innocent deaths.
It’s OK to take a stance, sometimes. And you don’t always need to be very civil about it.
In addition to the other points made, not nearly as many people use Lemmy so it’s not as much of a target for bots.
The alt-right/Trump content on sites like Reddit and Twitter is amplified out of proportion by bots.
“Without echo chambers, the weak trump supporter gets bullied and humiliated, leaving defeated and confused back to his herd. Nature is beautiful. “
David Attenborough, maybe
Haha are you implying that Lemmy isn’t an echo chamber?
It definitely definitely is.
But it’s not a Trump echo chamber, hence their absence.
It’s insane. I left reddit because I thought it was an over-moderated echo chamber with too much corporate influence. Lemmy is somehow an even worse echo chamber and it didn’t need corporate influence to see it happen.
Picking Lemmy over Reddit is a political choice, hence Lemmy having far more Communists.
Closer to reality than you think. He did a parody narration of “the MAGAs”.
They all on truth. And by truth i mean not the truth, i mean the a-social network truth.
They’re also back past the critical edgiboi quotient nowadays over at the other site that starts with r
