Regular reminder that being an asshole is not a symptom of any form of neurodivergence. (You can replace “neurodivergent” with depressed, anxious, bipolar, etc. and the diagram works equally well)
ETA: social faux pas, awkwardness, and genuine symptoms of neurodivergence don’t make you an asshole. I shouldn’t have to say this? An “asshole” is someone who enacts a pattern of abusive, controlling, harassing, and/or harmful behavior with no remorse or concern for how other people are affected.
Yeah I have two childhood friends that are brothers. Their other brother is very autistic. When we were kids a lot of people didn’t understand autism enough to get that while yes, his autism did affect the way in which he was a tremendous asshole, it didn’t cause it. He happened to have a shit personality and disability level autism
I guess MasterCard is either autistic or asshole now
One more post for this thread and then protecting my energy. Topic of great passion, interest and survival for me.
You are not an asshole for protecting your energy from abusive behavior.
The following must not be confused with abusive/asshole behavior:
https://purrfurnax.tumblr.com/post/750391775364104192
Social Ostracization and Bannishment should be a last resort only.
We can do better with communal moderation and conflict resolution.
I reccomend the youtube channel AnRel to address some of the greater nuances
Also, this playlist is something i return to every so often: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaOxDnLZqNcmxxkuxTVxYnhrYEOeoTRjP
Being an asshole is occasionally a symptom of me not being consistent enough with my anxiety meds though unfortunately. But I’m generally really apologetic afterwards when I realize and it doesn’t happen often and only for a few days typically.
Seems like some users thought this thread was a free pass to question neurospicy folks legitimacy regardless of assholeishness. Cool lemmy.world, cool /s
It’s because the phrase “neurodivergence” is an umbrella term. It’s all but useless in the context given. That’s a fact no matter how cool and breezy you are about people with disabilities.
I have an older brother with cerebral palsy - I know no other life than one that sympathizes with people with disabilities. I dedicated my life to helping children with disabilities. I have worked with children with cerebral palsy, autism, adhd, dyspraxia, downs syndrome, retts syndrome, ALS and many other conditions and brain injuries for a chunk of my life spanning over 20 years. I was treating them from before Ritalin was used to treat patients with ADHD (in England at least).
The term “neurodivergence” is not useful in the context it is used in here. Everyone is neurodivergent, and the terms popularity modern times has tweaked it to mean something else that is not clear. A social media “tag” used as an umbrella term is just that. It’s not a diagnosis or an excuse because it’s not one thing.
It is exactly like saying “i have fibromyalgia” - because that is also an umbrella term that leads to the question, “What does that mean in this context?”
The umbrella term “neurodivergence” includes both conditions that aren’t an excuse and are an excuse for behaving like an asshole. Anyone can claim they are neurodivergent because they are. Therefore some people will use the term as an excuse for behaving badly no matter what their quirks are.
I’m pretty sure it is a symptom of BPD.
You do not have to be friends with anyone! :D
I thought what we had was special 😢
I have an overwhelming urge to shop now.
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It’s exactly why I do not present any of the mental psychological isms my therapist gave me to other people. I’ve seen loads of folks who pretty much brag about these things—using them as excuses to be shitty or negligent people with no attempt at learning or practicing social skills. I run like the wind anytime I hear someone brag or lament (usually just a backdoor brag) that they are “empathic” or “highly sensitive.” I’m very cautious around people who bring up their “ADHD,” “anxiety disorder” or “autism”—especially if they do it regularly, publicly (on social media), or very early upon meeting them. And don’t get me started about personality disorders. I know people who are legitimately trying their best with all these things, but the genuinely responsible and aware folks seem to rarely wear those as kind of strange badges of identity.
It’s funny, because a common symptom of ADHD is oversharing, especially early on in a relationship when it’s less appropriate. This doesn’t make them an asshole, of course.
And for me it’s a way of communicating “hey, sometimes I’m gonna not think before speaking or lose attention mid conversation or something else, this isn’t me intentionally being disrespectful and I am trying not to, but sometimes I’m gonna fail so please don’t take it as a slight”
It’s so hard to tell sometimes. Thinking of a bipolar chap I knew back when. Decent hang most of the time, but really thoughtless and possessive at other times.
I still think he was mostly a jerk. Mostly.
I had a friend that had a traumatic brain injury and almost lost his leg from an explosion in Iraq. They guy was a loose cannon, so I tried making sure he didn’t do things that were to stupid. He would often run dilemmas by me, and I would talk it out so that he could make healthy choices. I could tell that he kind of looked up to me sometimes. I would hang out with him, give him regular guidance, paint a healthy path for him…but that was pointless. I was too powerless to help this guy. He just wanted to be stupid, drive drunk, run red lights, have ton’s of one-night stands, get into bar fights, hustle money, do drugs, hangout with the wrong crowd, etc. I had to cut him off because he was trying to drag me down into that scene. One time in the middle of the day, I’m riding shotgun with this guy. Everything seems fine. Some guy cuts us off. He gets pissed and pulls out a pistol from the center console to show the guy that cut us off. I’m in the middle of the altercation begging for him to just move on. Luckily, the other guy backed down. The last time I hung out with him, he shows up at my house unannounced and says we’re going out to have fun. My girlfriend gives me the approval. I get in the car with him, and he starts driving to I really don’t know where. A light up ahead turns red, and about 3 seconds into it, we run it without stopping despite my warnings. I then realize this guy had been drinking. I can’t remember how, but I either pulled an Irish goodbye or had my girlfriend pick me up. I never hung out with him again.
Years later, I heard he got married, bought a huge house in a fancy neighborhood, and had five kids. A few years after me drifting away from that entire social circle, a joint friend tells me they heard he was in a halfway house/rehab facility after beating his wife. Some people just can’t function right even with supervision. It was a hard lesson. All things considered, I still feel bad for the guy. I believe he was a good guy deep inside, but needed more supervision than what I could provide as a friend. I hope he recovers for everyone’s sake.
What he really needed was for his country to stop ignoring the true cost of sending troops into dangerous situations and for us to support him properly.
If we as Americans can’t take care of our soldiers once they’ve come home, then we can’t afford to be the world police. I’m thoroughly disgusted and ashamed of my government for allowing this situation to happen.
You are a good person for trying to help him, but realistically he needs constant support from professionals.
I agree with you entirely. Thank you.
“Neurodivergent” is just the latest umbrella term for people to use when lying about themselves. It’s like fibromyalgia, being allergic to smoke, and synestheisa. Look for something that nobody can prove you don’t have, and claim it as your own.
latest fad diagnosis - fibromyalgia, being allergic to smoke, and synestheisa
When have these been fad diagnoses?
Fibromyalgia has no specific test to confirm it. Being allergic to cigarette smoke is not a thing. Synesthesia became well known through social media a few years ago and suddenly was everywhere with no clinical diagnostic test.
They’re just conditions that people can say they have without proof. They come in waves.
suddenly was everywhere
Source? I’ve never heard about any massive synesthesia self-diagnosis wave
There’s no source. It’s a personal anecdote. I’m not writing a scientific journal. From my perspective nobody talked about it until i was in my mid 40’s.
That’s called a bias.
Everyone is an amateur psychologist now
I think a fair number of self-proclaimed “neurodivergent” folks just like it because: a) They think it’s a free pass to be an asshole b) They think it indicates some sort of superpower with no downsides and that they are superior to “normal” people.
Knowing some clearly sincerely neurodivergent people I tend to be highly skeptical when people assert that status in an interaction where I wouldn’t otherwise be able to tell.
That hasn’t been my experience but the demographic I hang about still has some stigma associated with being ND, so they wouldn’t “admit” to it unless it was relevant/apparent.
Curious if it’s regional or age related.
For example, at work where there’s a lot of 50+ people shaping the culture, I don’t think ND would be seen as an asset.
However, to me those that grew up when Asperger’s first hit the scene seemed more likely to treat it as “cool autism”, and migrated over to “high functioning autistic” when the DSM ditched it as a distinct diagnosis. I seem to recall some commentary at the time that the Asperger’s as a distinct diagnosis was more detrimental due to its popularity, and while formally the criteria for Asperger’s versus Autism would be similar, there was a sense that people should be more reluctant to diagnose as autistic than they were to diagnose Asperger’s.
I don’t think ADHD ever enjoyed status as a “cool” diagnosis though, but certainly in the mid 80s was overdiagnosed in children.
I don’t think ADHD ever enjoyed status as a “cool” diagnosis though
the last couple years on tiktok, but its tiktok so whatever
Masking exists you know. Just because you can hide it doesn’t mean there isn’t more under the surface. This is more of a Autism thing but I think some ADHD people also mask.
You’re right, but also there are still a ton of people that pretend or think they have some type of mental condition when in actuality they don’t.
I have diagnosed OCD (by a medical professional) and I’ve only ever told about two friends in my entire life because the millions of gross people around the world that say they have OCD for the most normal fucking things that everyone In the world can relate to.
Somebody saying they have OCD is so fucking cringe to me now because of these morons that I’m scared to tell anyone even if I’m close to them.
That’s fair honestly as a lot of people think they relate to OCD. I’ve even been called OCD even though I’m very sure that’s not something that impacts me.
So, for some honesty, I feel like there’s been a culture of folks treating “neurotypical” almost like a slur, like “neurodivergent” means better and thus folks thinking they need a diagnosis.
I know someone that self-diagnosed as autistic and was very excited to “finally make it formal” and shopped for a therapist that was qualified to diagnose and had even diagnosed a friend of theirs as on the spectrum. They were so pissed when after a couple of months of sessions the therapist continued to decline to issue a diagnosis. They couldn’t just be normal. I think most people I’ve heard personally declare themselves to be neurodivergent to be roughly in this camp.
I think popular internet culture is teaching people that a normal person has zero struggles with things like getting out of bed in the morning or being on time, and that if you have any whiff of not liking to do some unpleasant part of daily life then you are neurodivergent. It also tends to teach that neurodivergent people are smarter. I think this serves to dilute the reality of those with more serious issues. Similar to how a flood of “service animals” has diminished the experience of those with sincere need for them.
neurotypical feels like a slur
Genuinely, as someone who’s been on both the moderating and recieving end of communal moderation as a traumatized trans and disabled person, this topic is an iceberg. Social osratcization and bannishment shouldnt be weilded heavy handedly.
If you feel so oppressed, be glad that people empathize with you for your congruence with mental state, brain chemisty and so much more that we barely even have words much less proper understanding at large for, which is all lumped in to “neurodivergent”, and that your every choice is not medicalized and psychoanalyzed for being so bold as to be out about it.
Im over the respectability politics ☮️
You hit the nail on the head IMO, basically isf someone says they are neurodivergent or brings up a mental issue they claim to have for no reason at all, like just to tell you hey I’m neurodivergent, I typically assume they aren’t and just pretend to believe them.
It isn’t possible to fake being ND. Faking it would require someone to mask like a ND person does which doesn’t seem likely. Any therapist who still is going off of dated information and stigmas should lose there ability to practice.
What do you even mean? Of course its possible to pretend and fake being neurodivergent, many many people do. You may not fake it correctly, and that’s why these people might not be able to get a real diagnosis
The point of that story was that someone I knew that saw an actual therapist still said they were ND and denied the therapist’s opinion that they were NT. They had a friend that did receive a diagnosis from that same therapist and based on my interactions with that friend, I could definitely understand. They went shopping for what they thought was an easy diagnosis and failed to get one, but declared the therapy just isn’t good and they were done with therapy and they will continue to declare themselves to be ND anyway, because they know they are.
I strongly suspect a lot of self proclaimed ND folks are declaring so without any diagnosis or even against a professional opnion to the contrary. There’s too much romanticism of it and of course it causes some people to gravitate towards it. The end result being a dilution of societal accomodations toward ND born out of skepticism of some generally obnoxious folks.
Self diagnosis is completely valid. I’m pretty sure NT people aren’t going around trying to be ND. At the end of the day if they relate to ND they probably are one. I think ND people are much more common than society wants us to believe
Prior to the 90s, I think your perspective is correct, that no one would go out of their way to claim a condition they did not have.
But the 90s blessed high functioning autism as Asperger’s, and a bunch of smart computer people at the same time started getting rich. The popular take away for the random person was that Asperger’s meant:
- You are smarter than other people
- You can’t be expected to be considerate to others or consider their viewpoints, because that’s just the way you would be
- You can’t be expected to really talk to people you don’t feel like talking to at all
So now you had a condition that confers intelligence at a time when computer nerd was suddenly respectable, and a condition that allows one to fully cave to discomfort that almost everyone feels to some extent (though the intent was to describe people utterly incapable, the practical result has been a lot of people having normal levels of discomfort wallowing in it).
Plus the modern terminology of “typical” versus “divergent”, where people naturally want to be “divergent” (so long as they are divergent just like everybody they like) and people generally don’t like the sound of being “typical”.
Again, this is not the professional perspective, it’s the layman’s perspective that drives people to self-diagnose as a path to superiority and/or not dealing with fairly normal levels of discomfort when dealing with other people.
I’m ADHD and probably on the spectrum. Most of my friends are some level of both too.
There are still assholes who are also neurodivergent. I’ve met some. I avoid them. I will generally get along with other neurospicy people, especially if their combination is closer to my own, but an asshole is still an asshole.
Reminds me of once when a friend told me a story how someone watched his dick when he was peeing. When he got angry someone calmed him by sayong “Don’t worry, he is just gay.”
Yeah, why does this make sexual harasment any better?
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Chances are he thinks this is what it means to be a male friend. That doesn’t make it right of course but that’s probably what’s going on. This is likely due to him being abused as a child in some way and now he thinks it is normal to abuse others.
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Hot take, no one should be more lenient to neural divergent people because we should be lenient to everyone. If someone’s actions are weird to me but don’t cause any obvious harm then I’ll be “lenient”, as weird of a word choice that is. If someone’s actions are weird to me and may hurt me or someone else then I won’t offer any leniency. Just as I wouldn’t offer any if their actions made sense to me and were still going to harm me or someone else. Just because someone else is different doesn’t mean I need to tolerate their abuse. I’ll use more patience when a neuro-diverse person is causing harm but it’s not a carte blanche to abuse people.
