We already have people without incentive, and who make everyone poorer as a result. They’re called billionaires. They have no incentive to improve the world, because it’s being broken is what they benefit most from. Bezos doesn’t benefit from happy healthy employees, he benefits from desperate, powerless employees. They can’t fight back if they’re terrified of losing their job.
The combined net worth of the 2020 class of the 400 richest Americans was $3.2 trillion, up from $2.7 trillion in 2017. As of March 2023, there were 735 billionaires in the United States.
Meanwhile, poverty is the 4th leading cause of death in the United States. Killing 10 times as many people as homicide in 2019.
As far as the evils of socialism, why is the life expectancy 7 years better for men and 5 years better for women in Canada vs the United States? Could it be socialized medicine and ready access to healthcare perhaps?
If you’re ‘terrified of losing your job’, the problem is probably you because your ability to leech off a rich person is in jeopardy, you buried yourself in debt, you’re living beyond your means, you have drug addictions, etc.
Bezos is an asshole. Not all rich people are bad (not all people are bad). -Strawman argument.
Meanwhile, poverty is the 4th leading cause of death in the United States.
Asserting something that can’t be proven. -Do you have a religion you want to dispense also?
As far as the evils of socialism, why is the life expectancy 7 years better for men and 5 years better for women in Canada vs the United States?
Could be many things like distance from equator, better food ingredient standards, etc. Do you think posing a question makes a point?
Bezos is the example they were using to illustrate their point. Which isn’t a strawman argument by any definition of the term.
That’s a statistic that can, in fact, be proven. They should probably cite a source for it, but given how you set the level of the discussion, I can see why they’d think that level of effort is unnecessary.
Posing a question can be a way to make a point. It’s called a rhetorical question. It helps the argument if you follow up with an answer to the question, but the question on its own is enough to make a point.
I would argue there is no such thing as an ethical billionaire. So yes, above a certain point, all rich people are bad. They hold an unusably vast hoard of resources. They elect to retain these resources rather than help others. Granted this is a subjective argument, but a sound one.
Most people in the US are more than capable of ‘spreading the wealth’. -So what stops us?
I chose to not be addicted to drugs, to be responsible with money, and learn valuable skills and indepencence from employers. Why should I provide for someone choosing different (or enabling them to go even further down a bad path)? Wealthy people are no different in this respect, they just have more money. Squandering it on people who claim to be poor isn’t as good as…
Buying up farmland in the USA to keep it out of the hands of China, or funding vaccinations. -Something a ‘billionaire’ has been doing.
Or… give an example of people winning big on the lottery and compare it to the people who’s lives were destroyed by the easy money. Being a better steward of money doesn’t make someone evil.
Poverty is about resources. Most people in the US have plenty of that. Most people living paycheck to paycheck indeed did it to themselves.
Talked to someone while returning bottles and cans the other day. They had an electric bike with a trailer. They make ~$80 a week just going around town picking up bottles and cans. -Something I used to do before e-bikes. I made 2x minimum wage doing it when redemption took longer and more effort (feeding through a machine). Almost any idiot is capable of doing this, others are capable of far more.
If you’re dependent on an employer in the US; you’re probably a lazy leech that simply refuses to do actual work because I could give example after example of work people could do for more money. -When you lack those resources, then complain about poverty.
Most people isn’t good enough. Homeless people exist and underpin the entire concept of inequity with capitalism. The only thing they did was not have money.
I’ve been homeless, have you?
You’re probably ignoring underlying problems like drug addictions, mental illness, and divorce. Also, some people simply choose the life.
Getting through all of those conditions requires huge amounts of money, as I’m sure you know. There probably are some folks that prefer homelessness, but it’s a tiny minority and likely due to a situation where apartments don’t work and they couldn’t afford a house.
I don’t need to experience homelessness to have compassion and a vision for a better world.
Experiencing homelessness leads to a better understanding of homelesseness. Same with wealth; if you’ve never been wealthy; you don’t know the experience. Sure, it’s nice that you show you care about it, but anything you have to contribute on the topic is about as effective as donating to a scam artist and thinking you did good.
Experiencing homelessness leads to a better understanding of homelessness
I 100% agree with you that lived experience is a necessity to finding an answer, but it’s unrealistic to expect only people with that experience to produce solutions.
anything you have to contribute on the topic is about as effective as donating to a scam artist
What was it you were saying about lived experience? Well you’ve never lived my life. I can see the precarity of homelessness myself. I’m in a place that’s forced to make plans in case I have nothing. I’m also building an organizing committee for my union local to address homelessness in my community. I’ll make sure to tell everyone that attends our moneyless winter clothing swap that even though I’m there and planned it, I’m actually a con artist.
We already have people without incentive, and who make everyone poorer as a result. They’re called billionaires. They have no incentive to improve the world, because it’s being broken is what they benefit most from. Bezos doesn’t benefit from happy healthy employees, he benefits from desperate, powerless employees. They can’t fight back if they’re terrified of losing their job.
Meanwhile, poverty is the 4th leading cause of death in the United States. Killing 10 times as many people as homicide in 2019.
As far as the evils of socialism, why is the life expectancy 7 years better for men and 5 years better for women in Canada vs the United States? Could it be socialized medicine and ready access to healthcare perhaps?
If you’re ‘terrified of losing your job’, the problem is probably you because your ability to leech off a rich person is in jeopardy, you buried yourself in debt, you’re living beyond your means, you have drug addictions, etc.
Bezos is an asshole. Not all rich people are bad (not all people are bad). -Strawman argument.
Asserting something that can’t be proven. -Do you have a religion you want to dispense also?
Could be many things like distance from equator, better food ingredient standards, etc. Do you think posing a question makes a point?
Bezos is the example they were using to illustrate their point. Which isn’t a strawman argument by any definition of the term.
That’s a statistic that can, in fact, be proven. They should probably cite a source for it, but given how you set the level of the discussion, I can see why they’d think that level of effort is unnecessary.
Posing a question can be a way to make a point. It’s called a rhetorical question. It helps the argument if you follow up with an answer to the question, but the question on its own is enough to make a point.
I would argue there is no such thing as an ethical billionaire. So yes, above a certain point, all rich people are bad. They hold an unusably vast hoard of resources. They elect to retain these resources rather than help others. Granted this is a subjective argument, but a sound one.
As for not being able to prove the danger of poverty, and my statistics you can rrad the research paper I pulled them from ar you leisure: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2804032
Most people in the US are more than capable of ‘spreading the wealth’. -So what stops us?
I chose to not be addicted to drugs, to be responsible with money, and learn valuable skills and indepencence from employers. Why should I provide for someone choosing different (or enabling them to go even further down a bad path)? Wealthy people are no different in this respect, they just have more money. Squandering it on people who claim to be poor isn’t as good as…
Buying up farmland in the USA to keep it out of the hands of China, or funding vaccinations. -Something a ‘billionaire’ has been doing.
Or… give an example of people winning big on the lottery and compare it to the people who’s lives were destroyed by the easy money. Being a better steward of money doesn’t make someone evil.
So you think people who are addicted to drugs choose that life?
I think you are ignoring the environmental pressures and sociological realities that result in drug addiction and poverty.
There are plenty of people in poverty, who is claiming to be poor?
I’m not feeling bad for you if you can’t afford your cigarettes, cannabis, crack, and alcohol because of your own damn choices.
I won’t say get a job: I’d say straighten yourself out and quit trying to rely on others handouts.
Bootstraps. Got it. You have no compassion. What are you even doing in a place like Lemmy?
You’re implying that Lemmy is only for communist / socialists and not good for anything else? -Interesting.
No, I am not. I don’t mind having discussions with capitalists. But you are an extremist. It seems odd that you would want to spend time here.
I am sure you’re a “genius” who thinks people are poor or living paycheck to paycheck because its only their fault. But you wouldn’t know anybody.
Poverty is about resources. Most people in the US have plenty of that. Most people living paycheck to paycheck indeed did it to themselves.
Talked to someone while returning bottles and cans the other day. They had an electric bike with a trailer. They make ~$80 a week just going around town picking up bottles and cans. -Something I used to do before e-bikes. I made 2x minimum wage doing it when redemption took longer and more effort (feeding through a machine). Almost any idiot is capable of doing this, others are capable of far more.
If you’re dependent on an employer in the US; you’re probably a lazy leech that simply refuses to do actual work because I could give example after example of work people could do for more money. -When you lack those resources, then complain about poverty.
Sounds like you were stealing scrap metal to me, right to private prison, you are now happily employed.
Cleaning up other people’s litter. lol The guy does a service. I just return my own and my landlords.
Do you have the proper tax stamp and notorized permit from the state and your landlord? You are going straight to prisonl as well.
lol!
Most people isn’t good enough. Homeless people exist and underpin the entire concept of inequity with capitalism. The only thing they did was not have money.
I’ve been homeless, have you? You’re probably ignoring underlying problems like drug addictions, mental illness, and divorce. Also, some people simply choose the life.
Getting through all of those conditions requires huge amounts of money, as I’m sure you know. There probably are some folks that prefer homelessness, but it’s a tiny minority and likely due to a situation where apartments don’t work and they couldn’t afford a house.
I don’t need to experience homelessness to have compassion and a vision for a better world.
Experiencing homelessness leads to a better understanding of homelesseness. Same with wealth; if you’ve never been wealthy; you don’t know the experience. Sure, it’s nice that you show you care about it, but anything you have to contribute on the topic is about as effective as donating to a scam artist and thinking you did good.
I 100% agree with you that lived experience is a necessity to finding an answer, but it’s unrealistic to expect only people with that experience to produce solutions.
What was it you were saying about lived experience? Well you’ve never lived my life. I can see the precarity of homelessness myself. I’m in a place that’s forced to make plans in case I have nothing. I’m also building an organizing committee for my union local to address homelessness in my community. I’ll make sure to tell everyone that attends our moneyless winter clothing swap that even though I’m there and planned it, I’m actually a con artist.